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  1. #26
    FEP Senior Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrath of kyle View Post
    Speaking of the front end, I picked up a Griggs racing K member and tubular control arms, eibach springs for the rear, tokico shocks and struts with a Griggs racing coil over kit for the front, and the front springs are 10"x350. Thats what a guy recommended, hopefully they work out.
    350#/in springs are going to be pretty sporty, and may be too much for the Tokicos. MM has some good tech on matching dampers and spring rates (either conventional springs or coil-overs). The good news is that coil-over springs are easy to come by in a variety of rates, so you can experiment.

    Quote Originally Posted by wrath of kyle View Post
    Those of you that have done a coilover conversion, how tight were the sleeves on your struts? I was told that the Griggs sleeves would be a tight fit and I would have to use a rubber mallet to get them on. However, they slid on with no resistance and I can twist them without any effort. Should I try to fill the gap with something for a tighter fit? I suppose I could use duct tape until its tight. I'm just not sure if it is that big of a deal.
    I didn't personally install the coil-over sleeves on my Mustang, so I can't speak to how tight the sleeves were to the strut body. On my Subaru, when I did Ground Control coil-overs sleeves way back when, I did exactly what you suggested - I wrapped duct tape around the strut body to make the sleeves fit tightly. (As I recall, the sleeves came with large o-rings to put around the strut body to accomplish the same effect, but to me it made more sense to use a wider surface, so I did the duct tape trick. Worked just fine for years of daily driving, auto-cross, and open track use.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1157 View Post
    #1. Replacement K members are intended to be lightweight replacements for the factory piece, that'll also provide clearance for low hanging things like headers, and accessories.
    With few exceptions, they are meant to be used in drag/street race applications. They are not structurally sound enough to prevent deflection from aggressive cornering, and are not recommended as replacements if that is the intended purpose.
    He's already picked up a Griggs, which should be just fine. Concur with adding the lower K-member brace across the back of it, regardless of what brand one goes with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1157 View Post
    #3. For the love of God.......Dont cut the floor for a SF connector. Everytime I read somebody post their intention to do that I wonder why in the hell everybody thinks the only way to tie those two points together is by butchering a trench out of the floor to do that. There is a better way. It welds on like a conventional SF connector, and adds the integrity that only a true double frame rail can add while allowing you to jack your car up anywhere along the rocker pinch weld.
    http://www.kennybrown.com/sites/defa...e%20System.jpg
    These are Kenny Brown extreme matrix SF connectors. You can buy these things, and weld them in and the car will be vastly more rigid than it'll be using a single piece of 2 x 3" rectangular tubing. (Think 1' wide x full length of the rocker vs 2" wide x distance between the factory frame mount points.)
    The advantage of the thru-floor SFCs is the vertical component - that's what gives them the rigidity. Think I-beam. I don't know if the KB setup provides the same rigidity or not, but it uses a lot more metal to do it, and (as already pointed out) the KB kit won't fit the longer F/Z wheelbase. Whether the thru-floor setup is the way to go for a street car is obviously debatable, but one advantage (other than the greater ridigity) is that you can make them with a straight 2x3", whereas the under-floor type have to have some bends to conform to the underside of the car.
    Last edited by Patrick Olsen; 07-06-2016 at 12:10 PM.

  2. #27
    FEP Member dk5_cobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrath of kyle View Post
    is there any bump stop required for the IRS?
    The only bumpstops you need will be on the shock/coilover itself. Glad to be of service, and thank you
    Devin

    1979 Mustang Cobra - IRS, MM Suspension, 302/t5
    Check out my build thread for tons of IRS info, and general restoration help. There's a little bit of everything -->goo.gl/krmqNz
    Pm's welcome if you have any questions

  3. #28
    Mike1157
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrath of kyle View Post
    Mike, thanks for the input. I must say that your fabrication skills are quite impressive. There were only 3 choices for K member for me, either the MM like you have pictured, the Griggs, or Team Z autocross. All the rest looked flimsy, I'm sure they are all fine, but the simply didn't look all that strong or they were for drag racing only. The MM was simply too much, and I picked up the Griggs with the control arms for $300. I've read good things about Griggs stuff, so it was a no brainer to go this route. I also picked up a pair of 95 spindles, we'll see how the front track matches the rear once I get everything on there. Hopefully it'll be close to the same so I won't have to mess with wheel spacers. And I'll probably get the fender lips rolled to give me a bit more room on the inside.

    The subframe connectors I was actually hoping to not cut up the floor to do, and I had seen those Kenny Brown pieces before. However, those are for a mustang correct? Won't they be too short for the Fairmont? I'd love to just buy some subframe connectors rather than hack some steel up myself, but I have read that no one makes subframe connectors for the F/Z specifically.

    I used POR15 on the underside, everyone seems to like it. And it should be fine for the no snow climate in CA where I live. But it doesn't look like it'll stay shiny and black for long.

    As far as the wheels go, I was thinking the same thing about the S197 wheels, I just need to get out there and measure to see if they will work. At least there are lots of good looking options for me to choose from.
    Well, nobody makes a "thru the floor" SF connector either. Make it if you can. I copied these guys directly when I made mine. The pic I linked shows it's pretty straight forward as far as fabbing your own.
    Last edited by Mike1157; 07-06-2016 at 02:02 PM.

  4. #29

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    Its on all four wheels again!! Hooray!!

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    Well that didn't last long...
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    Hopefully by the end of the month I'll have it rolling around. I have lots of sanding and grinding to do, then POR 15, then assemble the front suspension. I'll need to get actual wheels for it tho, the spare tires I picked up are too small for the knuckles and they don't actually roll even when they are mounted backwards. Anyone want a stock I-6 K member with everything still attached to it? Or the stock 7.5 (I think) rear axle with 3.26 (I think) gears? I also picked up some doors at the pick and pull with mirrors on both sides and the triangle windows and they are power door locks to boot (I don't really care about that, but maybe I'll use them), so I have an extra pair of doors with good glass and stuff. If anyone can use any of this stuff let me know. Its going to go on craigslist soon. Or the junkyard.

  5. #30

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    Does the driver's side door have a blank inside sail panel? you know where the mirror control would normally be? Like if it had power mirrors? I need one of those.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  6. #31

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    [QUOTE=Patrick Olsen;1805348]350#/in springs are going to be pretty sporty, and may be too much for the Tokicos. MM has some good tech on matching dampers and spring rates (either conventional springs or coil-overs). The good news is that coil-over springs are easy to come by in a variety of rates, so you can experiment.

    Well, the guy who recommended #350lb springs was basically a super performance guy, so I'm wondering if #350lb springs will be too harsh, especially since I am heavily leaning towards the ecoboost 4 cylinder which will weigh much less than a V8. There is a guy on ebay (I'm cheap, gotta keep costs down where I can) who has 2 pairs of springs, both 10 inches but one pair is #225lb and the other #300. Those of you that have front coilovers, what spring rate do you have or recommend? Would either #225 or #300 work better than the #350 I currently have? Mind you, this will be more of a street car that is reasonable sporty. Maybe a track day here and there, but not that often. I don't want it to wallow in the corners, but I don't want to drive down the road feeling like I am in a stanced car.

  7. #32

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    I'm sure Griggs would be happy to talk to you about it and make a recommendation. There are also great guys out there like Maximum Motorsports' Jack Hidley who will spend hours talking to you on the phone whether you intend to buy from them or not!
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  8. #33
    FEP Senior Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrath of kyle View Post
    Well, the guy who recommended #350lb springs was basically a super performance guy, so I'm wondering if #350lb springs will be too harsh, especially since I am heavily leaning towards the ecoboost 4 cylinder which will weigh much less than a V8. There is a guy on ebay (I'm cheap, gotta keep costs down where I can) who has 2 pairs of springs, both 10 inches but one pair is #225lb and the other #300. Those of you that have front coilovers, what spring rate do you have or recommend? Would either #225 or #300 work better than the #350 I currently have? Mind you, this will be more of a street car that is reasonable sporty. Maybe a track day here and there, but not that often. I don't want it to wallow in the corners, but I don't want to drive down the road feeling like I am in a stanced car.
    I run 425#/in up front, but my car weighs quite a bit more than yours is going to, and I have dampers (Koni Double Adjustables) that are up to the task of controlling a spring rate that high. Personally, I think the ride quality on the street is just fine; it's the heavy live axle crashing over bumps that is more the source of poor ride quality.

    I'm less concerned that your ride quality is going to be too firm and more concerned that the Tokico dampers you're getting are going to be under-damped, which will lead to a crappy ride. Prior to the 425s, I had 300#/in springs with Koni Reds and the ride quality was terrible - there wasn't enough rebound damping, so the front end would cycle a couple/few times after every bump. You didn't say which type of Tokicos you're getting, but according to that MM link I posted earlier, they don't recommend front coil-overs with the Tokico Premiums, recommend up to 325#/in with the Tokico Illuminas, and up to 375#/in with the Tokico D-specs.

    My guess is the 225#/in springs would be too soft. The 300s would probably be a good place to start.

  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
    I run 425#/in up front, but my car weighs quite a bit more than yours is going to, and I have dampers (Koni Double Adjustables) that are up to the task of controlling a spring rate that high. Personally, I think the ride quality on the street is just fine; it's the heavy live axle crashing over bumps that is more the source of poor ride quality.

    I'm less concerned that your ride quality is going to be too firm and more concerned that the Tokico dampers you're getting are going to be under-damped, which will lead to a crappy ride. Prior to the 425s, I had 300#/in springs with Koni Reds and the ride quality was terrible - there wasn't enough rebound damping, so the front end would cycle a couple/few times after every bump. You didn't say which type of Tokicos you're getting, but according to that MM link I posted earlier, they don't recommend front coil-overs with the Tokico Premiums, recommend up to 325#/in with the Tokico Illuminas, and up to 375#/in with the Tokico D-specs.

    My guess is the 225#/in springs would be too soft. The 300s would probably be a good place to start.
    Thanks for the advice. At first my plans were to run stock control arms which is why I got Eibach springs and Tokico HP shocks and struts, because they seemed to play nice together according to the MM website you linked and ZephyrEFI likes them. But then I picked up the Griggs K member and tubular control arms, so I have to run coil overs now. Like you said, MM doesn't recommend coil-overs with the struts I have, but the guy who I bought the k member off of, who seemed to be very knowledgeable because he had 6 Fox Mustangs including 2 Cobra's and a Saleen, said the Tokico's would be fine with the coil-over kit. So I guess I'll just throw it together and see what happens and hope for the best. At the worst case scenario I'll upgrade, once I have the cash, to something that is a known and proven setup.

    But just to hedge my bets, since the recommended spring rate for the Tokico Illuminas (which I assume is a step above the HP's I currently have) is 250-325, I'll try and grab the 300lb springs. Does a 10" spring sound like the right length? I've tried reading up on what length to get, but that is a confusing world of opinions on the various forums I read.

    If I am lucky I'll have the front end done with POR 15 this weekend, then it will be time to assemble the suspension and move onto subframe connectors.

  10. #35
    FEP Senior Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    300# 10" should work out well - that's what I ran on my Mustang years ago.

  11. #36

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    I got the engine bay and the front end coated with POR 15 last Sunday, and I went to bolt in the Griggs Racing K member, and it doesn't quite fit. It needs the rear slots for the bolts widened, so that was a simple fix. Just get a big drill bit and hog them out. Except I broke my corded drill when the bit caught on the metal. My cordless drill works, but its much slower and weaker.

    The other problem I have with the K member is it is hitting the frame near the rear bolts as well. And rather than grind the K member I'm going to install a few spacers to give it a little more clearance, I don't need much, maybe a 1/4" I'll take pictures when I am done, hopefully tomorrow.

    Those fixes seemed simple and seemed to be the best solution, but I do have another question for the community. The FTBR rear bushing kit for the Cobra IRS uses delrin bushings, and it comes with zirc fitting to shoot grease into them. I bought Delrin bushings for the front control arms as well, and I'm wondering if I should do the same for the front. I've got the correct drill bit and tap, should I drill the control arms and have a grease fitting there as well?
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    A friend had an old Pontiac Tempest with Delrin and that car squeaked like crazy, I'd like to avoid that. And as I recall, FTBR started the grease fitting thing because the squeaking was so bad. At any rate, the control arms are at a machine shop getting the new ball joints pressed in. If I get those back tomorrow I'll paint them, them I could have almost all the front suspension together. But still no wheels to put on.

  12. #37

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    Argh, yeah I ran into that rear k-member bolt hole problem too. I think it's an early Fox thing, but who knows why they would change that.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  13. #38
    FEP Senior Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    I'm too lazy to go crawl under my car and look, but I'm 99% certain that my Max Motorsports front control arms with Delrin bushings have grease zerks. Their Delrin bushing kit includes grease, so it would be good to have zerks to be able to replenish said grease over time. Makes sense that if the FTBR Delrin bushings come with grease fittings, you'd want to do the same with the front bushings.

  14. #39

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    Grease fittings it is. Once I get the control arms back from the machine shop I'll drill and tap them. They are having some trouble with how to grip the Griggs arms without damaging them when they press out the old ball joints. Plus its kinda a friends shop and my stuff isn't a priority. But he said he'll get them back to me on Saturday. So for now I got the K member in, and I shoved the steering rack on it. Name:  IMG_1846.jpg
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    Unless I have the rack mounted wrong, which if it is please let me know, then I'm going to have trouble with the control arm bolts and the steering rack.
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    Any ideas on how to solve this issue?

  15. #40

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    Did you miss installing some rack bolt/nut spacers? The bellows is bulged backward some from the hanging down and forward tie rod end, but you'd think there should be more space... and/or, install the front front control arm bolts with the their heads forward, nuts rearward...
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 08-04-2016 at 12:15 AM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    Did you miss installing some rack bolt/nut spacers? The bellows is bulged backward some from the hanging down and forward tie rod end, but you'd think there should be more space... and/or, install the front front control arm bolts with the their heads forward, nuts rearward...
    Rack spacers? I've never heard of them, but this is the first time I have dealt with rack and pinion steering. I'm used to sloppy steering boxes so this, once the mounting issues are worked out, should be a big improvement. I don't have hardware for the rack yet, the bolts and nuts I pulled off the stock stuff are too big of a diameter and don't fit through the holes in the K member. I'll hit up the hardware store when I pick up the control arms. I'm assuming that I only need a nut and bolt with the appropriate size washer correct? At least that was how the stock power rack was bolted up to the I6 K member.

    I do plan on mounting the control arm bolts like you have mentioned, head first and the nut towards the middle. But it certainly does seem like I should have more space between parts.

  17. #42

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    I was just taking a stab asking if you'd missed putting some that may be necessary.

    Page 2, step #21 of the Griggs k-member install instructions talks about sliding on aluminum 1/4" rack spacers that apparently come in the kit:
    http://www.griggsracing.com/pdfFiles...20rev08-08.pdf
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  18. #43

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    On my QA1 k-member, the front control arms are pretty close to the rack. One time i was insistent on removing the control arms without pulling the rack, and i had to grind the bolt heads to make them fit when i went to put them back in. And i might have wrecked a bellows.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    I was just taking a stab asking if you'd missed putting some that may be necessary.

    Page 2, step #21 of the Griggs k-member install instructions talks about sliding on aluminum 1/4" rack spacers that apparently come in the kit:
    http://www.griggsracing.com/pdfFiles...20rev08-08.pdf

    Thanks for the link, I couldn't find an installation guide for the parts, I guess I needed to look harder. I bought the stuff on craigslist, so I don't have the spacers. And using the search function on their website produced no results for rack spacers. I'll have to do more digging I suppose.

  20. #45

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    I didn't get my control arms back. Boo. But I did pick up some wheels and tires. Hooray!
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    So with these wheels, I'm leaning towards a dark grey/gunmetal color for the final paint job. I like baby blue, but I think a color like the recessed parts of these wheels will look sharp.

  21. #46
    FEP Senior Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrath of kyle View Post
    Rack spacers? I've never heard of them, but this is the first time I have dealt with rack and pinion steering. I'm used to sloppy steering boxes so this, once the mounting issues are worked out, should be a big improvement. I don't have hardware for the rack yet, the bolts and nuts I pulled off the stock stuff are too big of a diameter and don't fit through the holes in the K member. I'll hit up the hardware store when I pick up the control arms. I'm assuming that I only need a nut and bolt with the appropriate size washer correct?
    Based on what Mike (Walking-Tall) posted, I'd contact Griggs to see about getting a rack mounting hardware "kit" with the spacers and the proper fasteners.

    Quote Originally Posted by wrath of kyle View Post
    I do plan on mounting the control arm bolts like you have mentioned, head first and the nut towards the middle. But it certainly does seem like I should have more space between parts.
    Max Motorsports has LCA bolts with lower profile button heads to give more clearance - http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Fr...olts-C363.aspx.

  22. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
    Max Motorsports has LCA bolts with lower profile button heads to give more clearance - http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Fr...olts-C363.aspx.
    Dang, that's cool! Wish I'd known about that sooner!
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  23. #48

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    Well, I should have known better than to take the control arms to my old friends shop. he took 2 weeks to get to them, and then he didn't press the new ones in. He says the new ones, from Griggs Racing, are too big. I emailed Griggs and they said they are supposed to be very tight. The inner diameter of the hole for the ball joint is 48.95mm. The Ball joint is 49.26mm. I've never had to get ball joints replaced, so I have no experience. Both parties are reputable, but I'll go with Griggs because its their stuff.

    So I'm off to find another shop. The bad thing is work is very busy for me starting today until 2 weeks from now. Its doubtful I can make it anywhere in the week, I'll have to find a place that is open on weekends. These are the times on a project that irritate me. I'm kinda stuck until I get the control arms back and assemble the suspension. I like seeing progress on a weekly basis, and I haven't done much in 2 weeks. Such is life sometimes.

    On the plus side, I picked up some maximum motorsports XL subframe connectors for $60. I know they will be too short, but I think modifying the MM ones will be easier than me making my own.

  24. #49

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    Take a look on Youtube. Eric The Car guy does a series of videos on installing those SFCs on a Fairmont.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  25. #50

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    Being that they're pressed in and not bolted in place, a 0.012" interference fit for ball joints doesn't sound out of order.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

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