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  1. #1

    Default Project Ugly Box

    Hello everyone, I got extremely lucky and picked up this wonderful 78 Fairmont last week. The best part was the cost, free. The story was it was grandpa's car and it had been in the garage for years and they finally wanted it gone. Over the likely 30 years it was in the garage it was used as storage, and the punk grandkids broke a window and did some lovely graffiti on it. That is the bad part, the good part is it has a clean CA title and its rust free.

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    I'm not sure the what the end product will be, but a full restoration is going to happen. I really like the direction that Project Ugly Horse was going, and that is what I am leaning towards. Hence the name Project Ugly Box. This is my first Fox, I have had a 67 Mustang, 69 F100, 71 Galaxy, 69 BMW 2002, and a few other old BMW's. So I have ideas of what to do, but I'd like to run those ideas by the community and see what people think before I buy stuff or modify something. I'm looking to learn from others mistakes, and also blatantly copy successful things that other people have done. My intentions are for a fun street car that I can daily drive without worrying about things breaking. And with that being said, let the fun begin.

  2. #2

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    The first order of business is the chassis and suspension. I got lucky again when a guy with an 01 Cobra wanted to go drag racing and sold me his IRS for $500.Name:  DSCF0535.jpg
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    It seems that the FTBR bushing kit is the way to go, so once I get rid of the old inline 6 and C3 I'll have space to work on the IRS. The plan is to clean the underbody and use something like truck bedliner to protect it.
    So first question, has anyone used some sort of coating on the underside of their car and can they recommend a product that worked for them?

    The front suspension I would like some opinions on. I'll definitely get a new K member to replace the inline 6 garbage, but I'm not sure what brand. I'm also not sure what to do as far as suspension goes, as in regular springs or coilovers. People seem to be VERY picky about what K members are crap, so lets try to avoid a bitter flame war shall we. I'm leaning towards something that uses the stock control arms, or tubular control arms with regular springs. I simply don't think that coilovers will be necessary with my intentions, and I have read that they can be noisy. I also don't intend on lowering the car, or if I do it will be very little. Its not my style and I don't want to have problems with speed bumps and bumpsteer.
    Second question, does anyone have experience with a K member and suspension parts that works well?

    I'm not sure what motor will go in, but I don't like distributors, carbs, or pushrods. It'll either be a 3 valve, the new 3.7 V6 (if ford racing comes out with a controls pack for it) or the 2.0l ecoboost.

    Once the suspension is settled and installed, it'll be time for subframe connectors. It'll almost be a shame to cut up such clean floor pans.Name:  DSCF0534.jpg
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  3. #3

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    That is the cleanest free car I have ever seen. I like the 2.0 ecoboost idea, light weight and powerful. My Focus ST has that and in a 3200 pound car it rocks, with 400 pounds less weight and great front rear balance you will not be disappointed.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by ukravit View Post
    That is the cleanest free car I have ever seen. I like the 2.0 ecoboost idea, light weight and powerful. My Focus ST has that and in a 3200 pound car it rocks, with 400 pounds less weight and great front rear balance you will not be disappointed.
    It only looks clean after I removed an entire garbage can full of trash from the interior and vacuumed. We are on the same page with the 2.0 ecoboost, roughly 250-275hp pushing a below 3000lb car should be lots of fun. The weight distribution would be pretty close to 50/50 with the heavier IRS as well. I'm leaning that way because you can buy the crate 2.0 from Ford complete with almost everything, then get a miata tranny, and you have a complete power unit. By the time I source a 302, get a stroker kit, aluminium heads, hydraulic roller cam, intake..... it will be about the same price as buying the ecoboost. But that is a discussion for later, suspension is the first task.

    And your Zephyr looks fantastic, it is one of the cars that made me want to get one. I'll have to start looking for an air dam from a Volvo. Its things like that that I want to blatantly copy, because I'm lazy.

  5. #5
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    That's so "Ugly" is KOOOOOOL!!!

    Great project you have chosen!
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  6. #6

    Default

    Sounds like a super cool project! Your front springs are going to need to be lower than stock height though, since Cobra springs are going to be all you can get for the IRS. I ran '04 Cobra springs on the front of mine for a while when i was planning an IRS swap, and they are definitely lower than stock. Not ridiculous low, but manageable. I like my H&R springs. I have a QA-1 k-member, which i like, but i don't have any experience with any others. I have stock control arms on mine. I'd also say don't cheap out on your dampeners. KYB sucks, and i didn't like my Gabriels either. I went to Tokico HPs and LOVE them.

    Since you're a Euro car guy, I recommend mesh wheels on your box. I think it gives them a sweet Euro look. Take a look at Ukravit's old 4-door. I also like your idea of a "different" engine.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  7. #7
    FEP Power Member Fearnot's Avatar
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    Gonna be a great project. Congrats!
    88 Turbo Coupe auto
    88 Turbo Coupe 5spd
    79 Fairmont Futura 4.6
    79 Capri RS - 2.3/5spd restomod
    80 Capri 5.0/5spd project
    79 Zephyr Z7 factory 5.0 sunroof
    79 Pace Car 5.0/5spd project
    85 LTD LX factory 5spd?(not documented)
    86 GT conv 5.0/5spd
    79 Pace Car 2.3/4spd - needs new home

  8. #8
    FEP Senior Member roadkill's Avatar
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    I vote EcoBoost! That would be so unique and too damn cool. Great find!
    1985 Mercury Marquis LTS... "The Unicorn"
    1978 Fairmont... 306 and a C4.

  9. #9
    FEP Senior Member roadkill's Avatar
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    Stupid double post...
    Last edited by roadkill; 06-10-2016 at 10:28 AM.
    1985 Mercury Marquis LTS... "The Unicorn"
    1978 Fairmont... 306 and a C4.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    Sounds like a super cool project! Your front springs are going to need to be lower than stock height though, since Cobra springs are going to be all you can get for the IRS. I ran '04 Cobra springs on the front of mine for a while when i was planning an IRS swap, and they are definitely lower than stock. Not ridiculous low, but manageable. I like my H&R springs. I have a QA-1 k-member, which i like, but i don't have any experience with any others. I have stock control arms on mine. I'd also say don't cheap out on your dampeners. KYB sucks, and i didn't like my Gabriels either. I went to Tokico HPs and LOVE them.

    Since you're a Euro car guy, I recommend mesh wheels on your box. I think it gives them a sweet Euro look. Take a look at Ukravit's old 4-door. I also like your idea of a "different" engine.
    I guess owning 5 old BMW's typecasts me as a Euro guy. And I do like the basketweave wheels, so eventually it'll be those or some old school looking wheels, like the magnum 500.

    I figured my choices for rear springs would be limited, and after reading a thread about them it seems like Steeda sport springs are the way to go. I'm a little worried about them because the Cobra's were a lot heavier than our cars, so I'm wondering if the ride will be harsh. I suppose I should look up what the stock springs rate are and compare that to the Steeda sports. Plus there is a local guy selling Bilstein struts and shocks off a Cobra, and as I have read the Steeda springs and the Bilsteins were designed for each other. But the guy wants $300 for 15 year old shocks and struts with 70k miles on them.

    The other issues I have are choice of spindles, control arms and k-member regarding widths and that type of thing. Lets see if I remember correctly, the 98 and up spindles will move the wheels out a bit making the track wider. Which will be good since I'll have to run wheels that have more offset because of the wider IRS. And as I have read the fox control arms are shorter than the SN95 ones. Plus some K-members move the front wheels forward a bit, so I'll have to try and account for that as well.

    So, what is the best combo? And if I have incorrect info please correct me.

  11. #11

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    Your info is correct. My QA-1 k-member is one of the ones that moved the wheels forward 1". I haven't had that in itself cause me any wheel fitment issues. I think you're on track with the '96-04 spindles, and Fox control arms. I don't believe using SN95 control arms would work at all on an F/Z. The Fox control arms mess up the intended geometry of the SN95 spindles, but caster/camber plates should correct that. Mine are bottomed all the way out on the camber side, but my camber is within spec. Also don't forget to use SN95 ball joints or conversion spacers for the SN95 spindles.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  12. #12

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    This could be awesome.

  13. #13

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    I got some time to work on the Box this week, and when I said it was rust free I spoke too soon. Sort of. There isn't any rust spots where the metal has holes in it, but lots of surface rust and scaling on the back end. I dropped the axle out of it and started scraping rust off with a wire wheel. It'll be grinder time soon. I'd like to get the underbody where the IRS will be sealed with truck bedliner before I attempt to shove the IRS in. I'd like to only have to do that once.

    What have other people done with the gas tank? I don't see much of a point in repairing/restoring the stock one, it seems quite daft when you can get a fuel cell for around a similar price. And I would imagine a fuel cell would be safer. Plus, whatever engine I use will most likely need a return fuel line and a fuel cell will already have that. I think. At any rate, I'll ditch the spare and carry tire plugs and sealant in a can for emergencies, so that leaves all that room in the trunk floor unused. I'm thinking of cutting out the floor and making it as deep as the spare tire well everywhere. That should increase trunk space and provide plenty of room for a fuel cell. I don't recall seeing anyone do anything like this in all the threads I have browsed, does anyone have any advice for me?Name:  thumbnail_20160610_200524.jpg
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  14. #14
    FEP Senior Member Greywolf's Avatar
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    For the '78 you can use the gas tank out of an '83-86 Fox-LTD WAGON EFI.
    Search my posts or (not yet completed...) build thread for fuel tank and IRS-into-Zephyr notes.
    Since I haven't had garage or local storage since 2010, my car projects are on hold.
    Ben

  15. #15

    Default

    I did the LTD tank too, but the issue there is, the sending unit/pump hanger hasn't been available for some time. Airtex used to make one, but everyone's out of stock now. You could try and get lucky with a good used one, but it sounds like you're set on a fuel cell anyway. It would be easier and cheaper anyway. As for the trunk, you might look for an '82 and up trunk floor. The factory eliminated the spare tire well and make the trunk deeper. it's a nice, flat floor, and you might even be able to make a Mustang tank work with it. Those, and their sending units are everywhere. Anyway, the newer style floor carried through with the Granada/Cougar sedans, as well as the LTD/Marquis. Food for thought, anyway.

    I toyed with the idea of doing the IRS myself. I'm curious what you intend to do where the factory bolted the IRS frame to the quad shock mounts on a Mustang. I seem to recall the F/Z rear frame rail even sits a bit higher than a Mustang there.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  16. #16
    FEP User
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    This is my 78 Futura. When I bought it the previous owner had installed a Fox Mustang gas tank and fuel pump. The car has a 5.0 out of an Explorer. Not the cleanest install but it works. I'm not sure if it will clear an IRS rear axle.
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  17. #17

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    If it works Shadylane, it works. I'm also thinking about eliminating the fill pipe to the fender and just having to pop the trunk to fill up with gas. It would be a cleaner appearance, but more annoying when I get gas I suppose. The jury is still out on that. I've chosen to use POR 15 underneath. Just about everyone swears by it, and it should seal up the surface rust spots that I can't get to with the wire wheel. I'll have to leave the middle section undone because once I get it on its wheels again I'll need to do subframe connectors.

    I've got lots of parts on the way, almost everything I need for the suspension, front and rear. With some luck I should have it on its feet before July. Although I'll have to scrounge up some 5 lug wheels that hold air to roll it around.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylane View Post
    This is my 78 Futura. When I bought it the previous owner had installed a Fox Mustang gas tank and fuel pump. The car has a 5.0 out of an Explorer. Not the cleanest install but it works. I'm not sure if it will clear an IRS rear axle.
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    Nice, I was never able to make that arrangement work. Do you have any problems filling up since the filler pipe is custom and therefore presumably doesn't have the split vent portion to let air out as you fill? That was a major issue for me.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  19. #19

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    I got a chance to shove the IRS into the car and it fits! Sort of. I had to cut a bit of the spare tire support off in order to get the bracket to fit flush against the frame rail.
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    No big deal. I marked where the bracket bolt holes need to go, and I'll get those drilled out soon. There are various ways to bolt the brackets in, but I'm leaning towards drilling a hole in the trunk floor that is big enough to slip washers and bolts through. Other people have done it and then filled the hole with a rubber grommet/plug. I have a bit more work to do before shoving the IRS in for good, namely undercoating, and replace the bushings on the IRS. I also need to find some cheap wheels just to make it mobile.

    Speaking of wheels, lets do some math and figure out what offset/backspacing I will need in a wheel. I'd like to not have to mess with the fenders if possible, but there isn't much room.
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    From the face of the hub flange to the outside of the fender is about 4 1/2". The fender lip is about an inch, so I have about 3 1/2" to work with. Can anyone recommend a particular backspacing and offset to look for? I'll have to get 17's at a minimum to clear the Cobra brakes.

  20. #20

    Default One month later

    One month and about $2000 later, I have lots of parts but I can't put them on the car yet. I replaced the bushings in the IRS, got the underside painted with POR15, but the cross axis joints on the IRS were bad and those didn't come with the bushing kit. So they are on their way, and once I get those I can hopefully get the car on its wheels and turn it around in the garage and work on the front end. Speaking of the front end, I picked up a Griggs racing K member and tubular control arms, eibach springs for the rear, tokico shocks and struts with a Griggs racing coil over kit for the front, and the front springs are 10"x350. Thats what a guy recommended, hopefully they work out. Also in my possession is a FR manual steering rack and shaft. So I still need to get tie rods front and rear, and I'll probably get the bumpsteer ones. Which are of course more money. I painted the IRS cradle and K member blue just for fun. And I took a picture of the build plate thing, so the smart people can tell me what my car used to be.
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    Those of you that have done a coilover conversion, how tight were the sleeves on your struts? I was told that the Griggs sleeves would be a tight fit and I would have to use a rubber mallet to get them on. However, they slid on with no resistance and I can twist them without any effort. Should I try to fill the gap with something for a tighter fit? I suppose I could use duct tape until its tight. I'm just not sure if it is that big of a deal.

    And, I have searched for an answer but i haven't found one. What about bump stops, both front and rear? I assume I should get a bellows and bump stop for the front strut. As for a bump stop for the IRS, I can't find anything definitive. Anybody have some knowledge on either of those issues?

  21. #21
    Mike1157
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    Ok. This is what I've learned through experience.

    #1. Replacement K members are intended to be lightweight replacements for the factory piece, that'll also provide clearance for low hanging things like headers, and accessories.
    With few exceptions, they are meant to be used in drag/street race applications. They are not structurally sound enough to prevent deflection from aggressive cornering, and are not recommended as replacements if that is the intended purpose. The steering rack mount points are barely there, really only intended to hold the damn thing in place, much less keep it from flexing when steering the car. Maximum Motorsports has done a few write ups about the differences between some of those K members vs theirs (trying to sell their own I realize, but it's worth researching.) At the very least, I would add the upper, and lower reinforcements to one of those K members to add some integrity back.



    #2. The front suspension on a fairmont is gonna be limited by fender clearance as far as track width is concerned. It always seems to be self defeating to try and get the great brakes, and widen the track width that comes w/ a SN 95 suspension/Cobra brake upgrade only to be throttled by the inability to get a decently wide tire on the front w/o crashing into the front fender on these cars. And trying to correct for the longer lower control arm almost exceeds the capabilities of an aftermarket CC kit. You need to be prepared to modify the fenders, especially if you use any other spindle other than a 94-95.

    I'm using an 8" wide, SN backspaced wheel on the front of my car. Factory I-6 "garbage" K member, factory LCA's but am using SN 95 spindles w/ a 17" wheel and a 245 tire. There is no way that stuff would fit if I used a longer C/A, and definitely no way in hell that stuff would fit if it got pushed out even further w/ a 96+ spindle.

    #3. For the love of God.......Dont cut the floor for a SF connector. Everytime I read somebody post their intention to do that I wonder why in the hell everybody thinks the only way to tie those two points together is by butchering a trench out of the floor to do that. There is a better way. It welds on like a conventional SF connector, and adds the integrity that only a true double frame rail can add while allowing you to jack your car up anywhere along the rocker pinch weld.

    These are Kenny Brown extreme matrix SF connectors. You can buy these things, and weld them in and the car will be vastly more rigid than it'll be using a single piece of 2 x 3" rectangular tubing. (Think 1' wide x full length of the rocker vs 2" wide x distance between the factory frame mount points.)

    #3. I used bedliner on the underside of my floor. From a durability standpoint I guess it's up there. From a keeping it looking good after the fact point........not so much. The stuff goes on black, and the very first time it gets exposed to dust,...........it's not black anymore. And you just don't wipe it off with a wet rag.

    I hope you can keep true to your goal of using a non-windsor power plant. You are already well on your way to having a project that is unique, and in keeping true to that I think an ecoboost 2.0 would be a great option to the sea of normality that is a 5.0 transplant.
    Last edited by Mike1157; 07-06-2016 at 07:34 AM.

  22. #22

    Default

    On that wide-assed rear, you're going to need even more offset than that. 45MM offset S197 wheels are probably the way to go.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  23. #23
    FEP Member dk5_cobra's Avatar
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    All your suspension parts look killer! I like where this is going a lot

    Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
    Devin

    1979 Mustang Cobra - IRS, MM Suspension, 302/t5
    Check out my build thread for tons of IRS info, and general restoration help. There's a little bit of everything -->goo.gl/krmqNz
    Pm's welcome if you have any questions

  24. #24

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    Mike, thanks for the input. I must say that your fabrication skills are quite impressive. There were only 3 choices for K member for me, either the MM like you have pictured, the Griggs, or Team Z autocross. All the rest looked flimsy, I'm sure they are all fine, but the simply didn't look all that strong or they were for drag racing only. The MM was simply too much, and I picked up the Griggs with the control arms for $300. I've read good things about Griggs stuff, so it was a no brainer to go this route. I also picked up a pair of 95 spindles, we'll see how the front track matches the rear once I get everything on there. Hopefully it'll be close to the same so I won't have to mess with wheel spacers. And I'll probably get the fender lips rolled to give me a bit more room on the inside.

    The subframe connectors I was actually hoping to not cut up the floor to do, and I had seen those Kenny Brown pieces before. However, those are for a mustang correct? Won't they be too short for the Fairmont? I'd love to just buy some subframe connectors rather than hack some steel up myself, but I have read that no one makes subframe connectors for the F/Z specifically.

    I used POR15 on the underside, everyone seems to like it. And it should be fine for the no snow climate in CA where I live. But it doesn't look like it'll stay shiny and black for long.

    As far as the wheels go, I was thinking the same thing about the S197 wheels, I just need to get out there and measure to see if they will work. At least there are lots of good looking options for me to choose from.

  25. #25

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    Devin, your Mustang looks killer, great job! And it answered a question I had regarding the IRS. I suppose I should remove the original bump stop brackets on the car like you did, I wasn't sure it that was necessary or if they would be used. But it certainly seems like they should be removed. And, is there any bump stop required for the IRS?

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