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  1. #1
    FEP User
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    Default Fairmont/Zephyr Non-Power Brake Question

    I bought a non-power assist master cylinder for my Fairmont (race car) that originally had power assisted brakes. Of course the m/c won't bolt up directly to the firewall. Can someone tell me or have a picture of a non-power master cylinder bolted to the firewall and is the adapter the same as power?
    Thanks

  2. #2
    FEP Power Member Fearnot's Avatar
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    I have the adapter plate to make that work. I can get you a picture here shortly.
    88 Turbo Coupe auto
    88 Turbo Coupe 5spd
    79 Fairmont Futura 4.6
    79 Capri RS - 2.3/5spd restomod
    80 Capri 5.0/5spd project
    79 Zephyr Z7 factory 5.0 sunroof
    79 Pace Car 5.0/5spd project
    85 LTD LX factory 5spd?(not documented)
    86 GT conv 5.0/5spd
    79 Pace Car 2.3/4spd - needs new home

  3. #3
    FEP Power Member Fearnot's Avatar
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    88 Turbo Coupe auto
    88 Turbo Coupe 5spd
    79 Fairmont Futura 4.6
    79 Capri RS - 2.3/5spd restomod
    80 Capri 5.0/5spd project
    79 Zephyr Z7 factory 5.0 sunroof
    79 Pace Car 5.0/5spd project
    85 LTD LX factory 5spd?(not documented)
    86 GT conv 5.0/5spd
    79 Pace Car 2.3/4spd - needs new home

  4. #4
    Mike1157
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    All I can say is good luck getting the car to stop if all you're changing is the master cylinder. You'll have to either do one of the following:

    Go to the gym, and work your right leg out extensively until it is twice the size of the other.

    Or,..

    Change the intersect point of the master cylinder to brake pedal. ( raise it). By raising the intersect point, you effectively increase the leverage generated by the brake pedal.
    The firewall mount plate that is pictured will allow you to mount the mc, but unless you change your brake pedal out to a manual version, or drill a new hole, and raise the pin,...lets just hope you test drive the car before you try to stop it on the big end of the track.
    Do you know the bore size of the new MC? Shouldn't be larger than 7/8" or it will mitigate the above even more so.

    Ask me how I know.
    Last edited by Mike1157; 02-07-2016 at 08:40 AM.

  5. #5
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    The M/C is 7/8. My 67 Fairlane has non-assisted brakes so I'm familiar with the right leg syndrome. This is a 95 mph car so I'm not too concerned at this point. I will test drive it before making any all out runs.
    Thanks for the tip on changing the leverage point on the pedal, I'll do that for sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1157 View Post
    All I can say is good luck getting the car to stop if all you're changing is the master cylinder. You'll have to either do one of the following:

    Go to the gym, and work your right leg out extensively until it is twice the size of the other.

    Or,..

    Change the intersect point of the master cylinder to brake pedal. ( raise it). By raising the intersect point, you effectively increase the leverage generated by the brake pedal.
    The firewall mount plate that is pictured will allow you to mount the mc, but unless you change your brake pedal out to a manual version, or drill a new hole, and raise the pin,...lets just hope you test drive the car before you try to stop it on the big end of the track.
    Do you know the bore size of the new MC? Shouldn't be larger than 7/8" or it will mitigate the above even more so.

    Ask me how I know.

  6. #6
    Mike1157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylane View Post
    The M/C is 7/8. My 67 Fairlane has non-assisted brakes so I'm familiar with the right leg syndrome. This is a 95 mph car so I'm not too concerned at this point. I will test drive it before making any all out runs.
    Thanks for the tip on changing the leverage point on the pedal, I'll do that for sure.
    Trust me. The difference between the length of the Fairlane brake pedal, and a fox pedal is probably significant. Especially when considering pedal ratios as they apply to that length.
    I installed a 1.125 bore manual aftermarket mc on my previous project and did nothing to the pedal, and on the first test drive, promptly sailed right through the first stop sign I came to, standing on the brake pedal. While I was actually slowing down, I definitely wasn't stopping either. ( and I was only going 25 before trying to stop, NOT 95.) Eventually, I came to learn all of this stuff, and did all the recommended junk to try and make the manual setup live able. Even with the altered ratio, and the 7/8 bore mc, I needed a Herculeg to get the thing to lock up the brakes. The fact that I had 13" rotors on front, and 11.6's on back probably had everything to do with that.
    but......just saying...
    Last edited by Mike1157; 02-07-2016 at 08:42 AM.

  7. #7
    FEP Senior Member
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    My 78 Fairmont drag car came from the factory with manual brakes, and I converted my 85 Mustang drag car to manual brakes, using parts from a donor car. Not only is the brake pedal itself different on a manual brake application, it also mounts in a different location in the pedal bracket. So the best idea would be to obtain the proper manual brake pedal, and then install it in the correct pivot hole. (all the Fairmonts and 4 eye Mustangs I have done had both positions already drilled into the pedal bracket.)
    1978 Fairmont 2 door sedan, 428CJ 4speed. 9.972ET@132.54mph. 1.29 60 foot
    Replaced the FE big block with my 331/4 speed in my Fairmont, best 10.24ET @128 MPH.
    1985 Mustang LX hatchback NHRA Stock Eliminator 302 4 speed best in legal trim 12.31@107 mph, but has gone 11.42@115 with aftermarket intake, carb, and iron Windsor Jr. heads.New for 2012! 331 cube SB Ford, AFR 185 heads, solid flat tappet cam, pump gas; 10.296ET@128.71 mph, 1.37 60 foot.
    1979 Zephyr Z7, all original 302 auto, 2nd owner.

  8. #8
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    Default

    I'll check it out. I have OEM, front brakes, rear drum brakes from a 8.8 Cobra and OEM 7/8 master cylinder. The pedal is the original power brake 4 speed pedal. I saw two holes for the pivot, I mounted mine in the top hole which is about 1 3/4 higher than the lower hole. Hope this is the correct hole.

  9. #9

    Default Automatic Fairmont manual brake application question

    Customer has an early automatic Fairmont. I don't know the year.

    Customer is attempting to install an MMBAK-15 manual brake kit on the car. This kit comes with our own brake pedal designed for manual brake use on a Fox Mustang. The pedal is normally installed in the upper holes in the pedal box that all stick Mustangs have. When I recommended the kit to the customer, I did not realize that their car was an automatic. From data that I have received from the customer, it appears that the automatic and stick pedal boxes in a Fairmont are different from each other. See photo below comparing the two brake pedals.

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    On the MM pedal from the left side of the pivot tube to the left side of the pedal arm is 1.59". According to the customer:

    If you flip the Fairmont pedal 180 degrees, then this pedal will have the same offset as the MM pedal. Currently the Fairmont pedal is offset to the left on the pivot sleeve.

    The total length of the pivot tube is the same on both pedals.

    With the MM pedal installed, the pushrod is clearly too far to the right in the car. I don't believe for an instant that Ford moved the m/c mounting location on the firewall in a Fairmont. The only thing that could be going on is that the pedal box for an automatic Fairmont uses a different brake pedal than the Fairmont pedal box for a stick. It makes sense that the two pedals would be different from each other as the manual brake pedal has a wider pad, so it must be welded on the pivot tube farther to the left to fulfill Ford's standard of keeping the brake pedal at least 2.5 light years from the gas pedal.

    I don't understand why the automatic and stick pedal boxes need to have different lateral geometry for the brake pedal. This seems really weird since the pedals themselves have the same overall length for the pivot sleeves. Does anyone have an automatic and stick pedal box that they can compare dimensions of? All of the local people I know who have converted their Fairmont car from auto to stick, threw away the auto parts.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  10. #10

    Default

    the non powerbrake Fairmont takes a different pedal with a different piv ot location the pivot location is in the bracket but you need the correct pedal to make it work

  11. #11

    Default

    pedal box is the same it has 2 pivot holes so it can accommodate either pedal

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