V6 trans behind 4cly

[tonyorlo]

I've got a sn95 lined up that I'm going to use for a 5 lug conversion. I have an 80 Capri with a 4cyl/4spd, the donor car has a 3.8 with a 5 speed. Would it possible or even make sense to use the transmission from the donor car with my 2.3? Is the input shaft the same? Can I use a 4cyl bell housing from a 5 spd trans with it?

Just came to mind the other day, I figure I would try to use as much as I can from the donor car.

[PaceFever79]

Interesting question!

I'm going to speculate it can be done...

One thing you may need is an sn95 driveshaft (for length).

Not sure about the input shaft and bell issues..

(Do a side by side comparison)

[tonyorlo]

It won't be a problem to get the driveshaft with it. Would that be a T5 in the v6 car? I haven't crawled around it yet so I don't know much about it, but do those later cars have a cable clutch? I've seen cables forsale and they say from 79-04 so I'm assuming so?

Thanks for the reply?

[boboli]

The transmission is a t5. The biggest problem you may have is the input shaft is longer on the 94+ cars so you have to use the 94+ bell housing. Since there weren't any 4cylinders in mustangs after 1993, you won't be able to find a correct bell housing. Your options would be to use a v8 to 2.3 adapter plate withe v6 transmission or to replace the input shaft in the transmission with a shorter one from a 85-93 v8 t5, then get a 4 cylinder bell. The gear ratios of the 94+ v6 trans may not be well suited to a n/a 2.3, so you may need rear gears as well

[tonyorlo]

I don't think I would want to sink that much effort in the swap, the 4 speed is fine for now. I've never priced out a v8 to 4cyl adapter plate, but I assume they are not cheap. If the t5 will work with a v8 with the correct bell housing then I guess I will pull it and put it on the shelf for future projects. I may drop a V8 in my car someday.

Somewhat related question, if I put the 8.8 in my car with the 4cyl/4spd will I need to have the driveshafts length changed? Can I just buy an adapter u joint?

[boboli]

The plate isn't too expensive
http://www.cididit.com/adaptor_plate.htm
I am no expert on the driveshaft but I bet if you install the 4 speed's yoke on the sn95's shaft, you should be fine

[martin0660]

The plate isn't too expensive

While I agree the plate isn't too bad, add in you would need the V8 zero balance flywheel with the 2.3 pattern and pilot ($345.00), but a V8 clutch set up, and either turn down the pilot of the transmission or but the adapter bushing from Rapido for the pilot bearing ...

The swap is sooooooooo worth it for us decent power turbo guys, but not cheap (add in to mine the cost of a SFI bell).

[PaceFever79]

You could upgrade to the entire 3.8L V6 running gear.
It would be a big improvement over the 2.3L...

Just noticed you run megasquirt, so maybe not! ^

[Haystack]

3/4" spacer on between the 2.3 Bell housing and the 3.8 trans and it would bolt right into place.

The real trick would be the flywheel/clutch setup. I'll bet a few phone calls and you could find a fairly easy off the shelf part solution.

I was told a 3.8 t-5 was a waste of time and it would be impossible without a input shaft swap. 4 days later and about $400 and I was driving the car 1600 miles to Montana.

[tonyorlo]

The 2.3 that I have in there now I rebuilt last year, I have a decent amount of money in it so I'd like to hang on to it. I have a rebuilt roller head and Edis 4 that I'm going to install on it soon too. It's a strong running, reliable and cheap to fix engine, so I hate to pull it out to put in a questionable v6. It's an n/a engine, but I'm tempted to turbo it. I won't have much in that project because I already have the megasquirt, 38lb injectors, wideband 02, and a 5.0 in tank pump. If I IC it and water inject it I might be ok.

When I built the engine I was shocked at how much the flywheel weighed, I've always felt like that could be much lighter. I don't know the rear end ratio that I have now, but I would assume they are a very low highway gear. The car is a dog off the line and cruises at a low rpm. If this t5 can be done and won't make me poor, I might go for it when I swap to the 5 lug stuff.

Thanks for the replies guys!

[boboli]

While I agree the plate isn't too bad, add in you would need the V8 zero balance flywheel with the 2.3 pattern and pilot ($345.00), but a V8 clutch set up, and either turn down the pilot of the transmission or but the adapter bushing from Rapido for the pilot bearing ...

Just curious if you could just use the 2.3 flywheel and clutch with the v8 adapter parts. That would save him money and he may not need the upgraded v8 clutch

[martin0660]

Just curious if you could just use the 2.3 flywheel and clutch with the v8 adapter parts. That would save him money and he may not need the upgraded v8 clutch

1st, and most significant hurdle would be the starter ... The V-8 bell would have it "out there" a bunch from the 2.3 flywheel.

The depths on this stuff all stack up "mostly right" with the thickness of the adapter plate and the V8 bell ... I've not looked at / don't any math on how the 2.3 stuff would stack behind the adapter plate and even worse with the "deeper bell" being discussed. At a minimum, an adjustable pivot ball and I suspect trial and error.

[martin0660]

When I built the engine I was shocked at how much the flywheel weighed, I've always felt like that could be much lighter. I don't know the rear end ratio that I have now, but I would assume they are a very low highway gear. The car is a dog off the line and cruises at a low rpm. If this t5 can be done and won't make me poor, I might go for it when I swap to the 5 lug stuff.

I have decent power in my 2.3 turbo car, and could never cruise with any of the V8 ratio overdrives. I am running a V8 style T5 in mine, but have a road race overdrive in the case. My transmission is 3.22 1st gear and .80 overdrive

If you think the 2.3 is a dog pulling out with your stock style flywheel, wait until you try a lighter one. You will need to slip the heck out of the clutch to get it to move with no mass behind there. When we are discussing the V8 swap, although the conversion flywheel is aluminum, the larger diameter of the flywheel (more mass further out) plus the weight of the V8 clutch set up almost gives you the same mass as a stock 2.3 set-up in actual weight, and would calculate to more rotating mass depending on what pressure plate you run.

It sounds like you have the groundwork for a nice turbo swap. We did my wife's 93 convertible last summer. It is a 9:1 compression short block (but forged pistons) and stock everything else with one of my old ported manifolds and T3 turbo on PIMP. At 10 pounds it changed the whole character of the car, you can just push the gas and go, it cruises almost effortless ... at 15 psi now it's rather fun. A very basic turbo swap would make it a fun car to drive for sure.

[martin0660]

3/4" spacer on between the 2.3 Bell housing and the 3.8 trans and it would bolt right into place.

Some time ago, I had one of the first Quicktime SFI bells made to directly bolt up to a 2.3 and a T5 ... Quicktime however made the bellhousing V8 depth instead of the 2.3 depth (2.3 T5's are 7/16" longer). I did exactly that too, had a 7/16" plate machined as a spacer. The trick was getting a pilot to fit on the bell housing so the spacer registered on the bell housing and the transmission registered on the spacer. That added a lot of cost to having the spacer made.

[boboli]

I forgot about the starter. That would probably be a big problem

[Travis T]

If your car has an RAD four speed, your bellhousing and clutch will work with a T5. If it has the goofy transmission where it bolts to the bellhousing from inside the bellhousing, it won't work.

[PaceFever79]

If your car has an RAD four speed, your bellhousing and clutch will work with a T5. If it has the goofy transmission where it bolts to the bellhousing from inside the bellhousing, it won't work.

Travis, I have a question; When doing this, did you use the smaller RAD flywheel and clutch? or did you upgrade it to the larger 84-86 2.3t flywheel and clutch?

[tonyorlo]

If all it would take is the V8 adapter plate then I would go for it for sure, but it sounds like it could turn into a much bigger project. I can live with the 4spd lol. I really would like to turbo it, and make a little more power. I think the 4spd would hold up, but with an 8.8 it would definitely be the weak point.

I cant remember how the bellhousing bolts to the trans, but I think it does bolt from the inside. I think it is one of those oddball ones, its made of iron.

[Travis T]

Travis, I have a question; When doing this, did you use the smaller RAD flywheel and clutch? or did you upgrade it to the larger 84-86 2.3t flywheel and clutch?

On the car I did this to, the transmission was literally the only thing I changed. It fit like Ford intended for it to swap.

[Ourobos]

You could carefully cut 5/8" off the tip of the input shaft. Use the V8 pilot bushing in your crank, good to go