84 GT350 Sells for 65k at BJ Scottsdale

[Droog]

cringes @ Reagan-era muscle

I prefer the tag: Second gen muscle cars.

That is what they really were...

Lol. I hear you. We've got hippy muscle and disco muscle, but there really isn't a good tag for the 80's stuff. Can't really call it yuppie muscle, since the yuppies were all buying Porsche's and BMW's.

[bridgener]

I love muscle cars as much as the next guy, but the fact that ANY American car goes for a high amount of money just baffles me. Looking in the latest Hemmings motor news, there's literally an entire page of Hemi Cuda's going for what, millions? The fact that you can pick one out of a page means that they should not be going for those prices. You can buy coach built classic Ferrari's with actual historical significance for ten times less!

Hopefully this auction is an anomaly. I heard that the Gas Monkey garage dickweed had something to do with it. Maybe they'll chrome wrap it and put an LS in it.

[roush235]

While I think it's exciting to see one go for this money, I'm also not too concerned about what it means for our part of the hobby. Yes, there will be asshats who will see that and think that their ragged out Anny, or vert, or whatever is now worth gold. And the car will sit. There have always been people using creative valuation standards to set asking prices for their cars.

One data point does not make a trend. Yes, the low-mile and well-optioned cars have been doing okay and increasing slowly. As they say, a car is only new once. And, while Barrett-Jackson may present an occasional auction anomaly, there are tons of other high-interest but not showboating auctions around the country where you will see results that largely support what you'll see on TV.

I'm no huge fan of Barrett-Jackson, but I don't see them as an enemy, either. They are a factor that simply exists.

I agree. I think it is an anomaly, but it's exciting that it happened. The legitimacy of Fox Bodies is picking up credibility every day.

And.... despite my mostly positive response, I do consider myself a car guy through and through.

[Droog]

I love muscle cars as much as the next guy, but the fact that ANY American car goes for a high amount of money just baffles me. Looking in the latest Hemmings motor news, there's literally an entire page of Hemi Cuda's going for what, millions? The fact that you can pick one out of a page means that they should not be going for those prices. You can buy coach built classic Ferrari's with actual historical significance for ten times less!

Hopefully this auction is an anomaly. I heard that the Gas Monkey garage dickweed had something to do with it. Maybe they'll chrome wrap it and put an LS in it.

Well now, hold on a minute. You seem to be going out of your way to single out American cars. Why is the Ferrari more "historically significant" than the Plymouth? It's coachbuilt nature? Racing wins? As to the former, I would reply that the Plymouth's significance lies in the fact that it was a relatively inexpensive assembly line built car. As to the latter, the Hemi/E-body combo racked up a pretty impressive record in NHRA competition, so unless we're having the old "my motorsport is more legitimate than yours" argument, I'm not sure where you're coming from. They're both historically significant in their own way. Just like the Fox.

Rawlings had nothing to do with the Mustang that I'm aware of. He bought a 77 Trans Am for 75k. If he did have something to do with it, we'll find out shortly, but I doubt it.

[OX1]

EXACTLY. F*** Barrett Jackson. These a**hole auction people are single handedly RUINING the car hobby. So many people say the OEMs are doing it, no, I say it's these greedy motherf***ers! Cars are meant to be driven and enjoyed, not parked in a bubble with the hopes you can cash in in a few years like some old painting. If you are AT ALL happy about this, you are not a car guy.

AMEN. Another useless lump of metal no one could dare enjoy.

[bridgener]

Well now, hold on a minute. You seem to be going out of your way to single out American cars. Why is the Ferrari more "historically significant" than the Plymouth? It's coachbuilt nature? Racing wins? As to the former, I would reply that the Plymouth's significance lies in the fact that it was a relatively inexpensive assembly line built car. As to the latter, the Hemi/E-body combo racked up a pretty impressive record in NHRA competition, so unless we're having the old "my motorsport is more legitimate than yours" argument, I'm not sure where you're coming from. They're both historically significant in their own way. Just like the Fox.

Rawlings had nothing to do with the Mustang that I'm aware of. He bought a 77 Trans Am for 75k. If he did have something to do with it, we'll find out shortly, but I doubt it.

When I talk about historical significance, I'm referring to a car that I actually saw in Hemmings motor news. There was a Ferrari of the same vintage (around '70) that was actually owned by Enzo Ferrari that was going for around 300k. Yes, Hemi cars had huge race success at the time. The average Hemi equipped dealership bought car did not. The fact that you can literally pick a Hemi Cuda convertible out of a dozen at any given time out of a magazine (to me) means that they shouldn't be valued at multiple millions of dollars. Ten years ago they went for what, 90k? Is the demand for these cars that much higher now? Absolutely not! An image of desirability and value was created by a "collector's group" in order to drive the price of their investments up. And, guess what? It worked!

Now, to me vehicles like coach built Bugatti's, Pierce arrow's, cars with significant racing history (including many american cars like Ford GT40, Shelby Cobra, Superstock Dodges, Hemi Darts, etc...) should hold value. But, 60k for a fox mustang, 75k for a Trans Am, 4 million for a Hemi Cuda... These will never make sense to me no matter which way you slice it.

I don't even want to get started on the fact that many of these restorations are just VIN swaps. People, hold on to your buck tags and VIN plates. One day they might just be worth the jackpot!

[Droog]

When I talk about historical significance, I'm referring to a car that I actually saw in Hemmings motor news. There was a Ferrari of the same vintage (around '70) that was actually owned by Enzo Ferrari that was going for around 300k. Yes, Hemi cars had huge race success at the time. The average Hemi equipped dealership bought car did not. The fact that you can literally pick a Hemi Cuda convertible out of a dozen at any given time out of a magazine (to me) means that they shouldn't be valued at multiple millions of dollars. Ten years ago they went for what, 90k? Is the demand for these cars that much higher now? Absolutely not! An image of desirability and value was created by a "collector's group" in order to drive the price of their investments up. And, guess what? It worked!

Now, to me vehicles like coach built Bugatti's, Pierce arrow's, cars with significant racing history (including many american cars like Ford GT40, Shelby Cobra, Superstock Dodges, Hemi Darts, etc...) should hold value. But, 60k for a fox mustang, 75k for a Trans Am, 4 million for a Hemi Cuda... These will never make sense to me no matter which way you slice it.

I don't even want to get started on the fact that many of these restorations are just VIN swaps. People, hold on to your buck tags and VIN plates. One day they might just be worth the jackpot!

Ah, okay. I understand where you're coming from, and I don't disagree.

[roush235]

AMEN. Another useless lump of metal no one could dare enjoy.

I for one would thoroughly enjoy seeing, and even owning, this car.... even if I never drove it. You see, I highly regard and value original condition, unrestored specimens. They have a place in the hobby too.

[dburdyshaw]

I for one would thoroughly enjoy seeing, and even owning, this car.... even if I never drove it. You see, I highly regard and value original condition, unrestored specimens. They have a place in the hobby too.

Well-said.

They are only original once.

[ZephyrEFI]

I agree. I think it is an anomaly, but it's exciting that it happened. The legitimacy of Fox Bodies is picking up credibility every day.

And.... despite my mostly positive response, I do consider myself a car guy through and through.

Why do they have to cease to be a car and become an untouchable relic investment to be "legitimate"? To me, that is the opposite of legitimate. And what about the fact that every douchebag with a rotting '84 GT in his backyard will now believe his pig will now fetch big money, you see that as "exciting" too? This is going to do nothing but get in the way of guys like us enjoying this hobby.

[Droog]

Just heard a 79 TA/TA brought 170k.

[9D83]

It's all cyclical. Right now Reagan-era muscle is on the rise. 20 years from now, somebody will drop a hundred grand on a Terminator at B-J and the cycle will start all over again.

Yup. Demographics. Was reading an article in fortune about how 50s classic cars are in decline price wise. The younger guys with the money don't remember em and aren't interested. Vintage cars too. I was looking about a year ago and was shocked at how cheap you could pick up a nice model A driver for.

[9D83]

cringes @ Reagan-era muscle

I prefer the tag: Second gen muscle cars.

That is what they really were...

Heh. Yup. I also dislike the way uninformed writers lump the 80s in with the 'malaise era'. Anything that runs 14s stock-with a few tweaks- is not malaise but 2nd Gen..

[bullittm3]

I for one would thoroughly enjoy seeing, and even owning, this car.... even if I never drove it. You see, I highly regard and value original condition, unrestored specimens. They have a place in the hobby too.

I COMPLETELY AGREE! I love looking at "wrapper" cars. There is just something special about seeing a completely unmolested 30 year old car. It is a tremendous asset to the history of the Fox Mustangs and our hobby. When the fox Mustangs increase enough in value to make sense financially to restore, these cars will serve as a perfect template for restorers to bring these cars, which we all love so much, back to the exact way they came from the factory. All the factory markings, stickers, etc. can be duplicated to an exact certainty. This is why people go so nuts over these cars, they are the greatest form of a time machine. It is like you are walking into a Ford showroom in 1984 all over again. I do not think these cars ruin our hobby. Quite the opposite. They are the purist form of the cars that we love and they should be celebrated and not maligned.
As for this particular auction result, I think it is a one time fluke, not a trend. Although i do believe these cars will increase in value in the next 5-10 years, when the people who learned how to drive during the Reagan administration get more expendable income and look to relive their youth. I am VERY curious how Hagerty will use this result in their valuation tools when they update their values of foxes in the next couple of months.
As for the people who will be asking more for their rust buckets, the free market will take care of that. If they are right, the values of our cars will increase. If they are priced too high, they won't sell and the prices will be reduced to an acceptable level.
To me, all these different dynamics are very interesting and entertaining.
By the way, I am DEFINITELY not an investor looking for a profit. Ask anyone who knows me, I never sell anything. At any price. It is all about the hobby to me.

[OX1]

I for one would thoroughly enjoy seeing, and even owning, this car.... even if I never drove it. You see, I highly regard and value original condition, unrestored specimens. They have a place in the hobby too.

I like to see them too (even though I think it is a waste to not drive them), but when they drag the whole set of cars out of range of the enthusiast, that saddens me.

[PaceFever79]

I worked in Ford dealerships during the 80s, I would enjoy having a fresh as delivered Fox complete with original window sticker in a garage with tiled floors, FoMoCo posters on the wall, and a stocked brochure rack in the corner.

Whop, here comes an "up"!! I got this...

[BaconB8]

I hope the new owner finds the site and chimes in.

It was only a matter of time. This isn't a bad thing, unless you don't have any foxbodies yet. Better get one while the gettins' good!

I passed on so many rust free fastbacks in the mid 90's. Now, I'd have a feeding frenzy on my hands if I had only a few of them for sale. Same will happen with clean foxes.

[sowaxeman]

Wow, $100k for a 4.9L turbo Trans Am??

What are they putting in those drinks at Barrett Jackson 2016??

I said it all over Facebook on Weds night....those silly prices for the Fox and the T/A had to be liquor induced bidding wars!!

[sowaxeman]

I COMPLETELY AGREE! I love looking at "wrapper" cars. There is just something special about seeing a completely unmolested 30 year old car. It is a tremendous asset to the history of the Fox Mustangs and our hobby. When the fox Mustangs increase enough in value to make sense financially to restore, these cars will serve as a perfect template for restorers to bring these cars, which we all love so much, back to the exact way they came from the factory. All the factory markings, stickers, etc. can be duplicated to an exact certainty. This is why people go so nuts over these cars, they are the greatest form of a time machine. It is like you are walking into a Ford showroom in 1984 all over again. I do not think these cars ruin our hobby. Quite the opposite. They are the purist form of the cars that we love and they should be celebrated and not maligned.
As for this particular auction result, I think it is a one time fluke, not a trend. Although i do believe these cars will increase in value in the next 5-10 years, when the people who learned how to drive during the Reagan administration get more expendable income and look to relive their youth. I am VERY curious how Hagerty will use this result in their valuation tools when they update their values of foxes in the next couple of months.
As for the people who will be asking more for their rust buckets, the free market will take care of that. If they are right, the values of our cars will increase. If they are priced too high, they won't sell and the prices will be reduced to an acceptable level.
To me, all these different dynamics are very interesting and entertaining.
By the way, I am DEFINITELY not an investor looking for a profit. Ask anyone who knows me, I never sell anything. At any price. It is all about the hobby to me.

Well...you know I kinda enjoy them too

[Droog]

I said it all over Facebook on Weds night....those silly prices for the Fox and the T/A had to be liquor induced bidding wars!!

Don't be too quick to blame it on the Jack Daniels, this has been brewing for a while. I've been contacted by three different 60's musclecar collectors over the past couple of years interested in adding a Fox to their collection and curious about what they should be looking for.

[PaceFever79]

It was inevitable the "55-57 Chevy" of our generation would become collectible. Nostalgic. Valuable. The original popularity of the Fox Mustang, the hot rod cred, and the grassroots racing history of this car is unmatched by any model, ever.

[bullittm3]

It was inevitable the "55-57 Chevy" of our generation would become collectible. Nostalgic. Valuable. The original popularity of the Fox Mustang, the hot rod cred, and the grassroots racing history of this car is unmatched by any model, ever.

I agree. But I wouldn't be too sure that time has come....yet. I think these results are due more to the fact that they are brand new 30 year old cars. These time warp cars are hot as a pistol right now. You have this $71K Fox, the $100K T/A. About 6 months ago, a 1978 LTD Country Squire wagon with 1,300 miles sold for $43K, I think. Just recently, a 1974 Javelin AMX, a nothing car normally, with 400 miles sold for $41K. Ford GTs that have delivery miles are selling at a $100K to $200K premium over other GTs with just a few thousand miles on them. I think collectors are seeing the extreme desirability of originality for the cars of the 50s and 60s, so they feel the original examples of the 70s and 80s are the next smart play in the hobby. Love em or hate em, these "wrapper" cars are the best of the best when it comes to originality.

[mrmustang]

The car in question was bid on (above 24K) by two Ford specific collectors, that is all it takes. This does not make nor affect the general marketplace, unless you too have a "no prep" wrapper 1984 GT350 convertible awaiting for the next auction to occur. Although, I will warn those that do, that one high ticket buyer is already out of the game, getting the car that he (she ) wanted at this auction.

I'll leave it at that.



Bill S.

[vascj]

yep.....

Don't be too quick to blame it on the Jack Daniels, this has been brewing for a while. I've been contacted by three different 60's musclecar collectors over the past couple of years interested in adding a Fox to their collection and curious about what they should be looking for.

[PaceFever79]

It will be interesting in the upcoming transitional period. There will be old school haters, skeptics, and fans. Just like there was when 60s muscle invaded the market from WW2 era classics and exotic European cars 20 years ago.