Four eye vs two eye.

[webestang]

I have never had an issue here without an aero section, granted I've only started a dozen threads. i have a couple in the "NON-FEP Tech" for when i needed help and didn't know where to post.

That is where I post for my 88.....but I have been accepted in the convertible thread in the body section and post pics of things I have done to my 88 vert to help out the early verts as they are basically the same top.

[Walking-Tall]

Well done! I have several collector cars of different makes and models and I likewise belong to other vehicle specific forums. IMHO this is the best of the best.

Thanks for starting this convo. It's sparked interesting discussion, and even the big guy got into it, awesome.

[PaceFever79]

an aero section really wouldn't be a bad idea.

I disagree, simply because it would become a nuisance. It would lead to endless bickering and infighting. I'm more fond of the 4 eye Comradery, than I am of having Aero Stangs on board.

[wraithracing]

an aero section really wouldn't be a bad idea.

Unfortunately I would have to agree with PaceFever79 that adding an Aero sub-forum would most likely not go well. I too love the Aero Mustangs and I am in fact putting my 91 GT back together right now. The issue is that there are plenty of places for people to go with Aero Mustangs for information, to showcase, etc. their rides. I don't believe any of them have the same great feel that we do here at FEP, but there are options for the Aero owners.

Although many of us to swap aero suspension, drivetrains, etc. into our Four Eyes, we don't want to loose our Four Eye identity and heritage. IMHO once we open the doors to the Aero cars, the focus and attention to the Four Eyes will be diminished or diluted in some way. Maybe I am wrong, but my fear would be that as a Moderator those of us would spend more time policing the bickering, sniffling, etc. that always seems to happen when a new Aero owner wants to join, showcase, sell, or just brag about their car. I know this is not the case will all owners and there are even Four Eye owners that cause issues, but overall we have a polite, tolerant, friendly, and enjoyable group of members here and I would be fearful that bringing in a group of members that although share similar passions to ours, the difference may cause too much strife within the community and ultimately not be beneficial.

On a person note, there can be plenty of drama every month with the Ride of the Month nominations and voting with just the limited rules we have in place now. I constantly here feedback and complaints about how stock cars are going up against restored cars. Customized cars are going up against original cars, etc., etc. Add to that a group of Aeros that are NOT allowed to participate and think of the complaints and issues. Add to that a group of Aeros that ARE allowed to participate and now what!?

I guess my attitude is the ole' "If it ain't broke don't fix it" If you need more Aero tech, pictures, advice, etc. there are forums out there for that. Aero owners are welcome to visit/join the site and enjoy all that FEP has to offer, just they can't showcase their cars that's all.

Soap Box Off.

Trey

[evlgt85]

I suppose that this is going to sound kinda doom-and-gloomy, but we may be at such a low traffic level at this point that I don't think much drama would come of it at all. Forums are hurting, bad, across the board (pun intended). Sites small and large, built to support a hobby/interest/niche/population have been decimated by the shift from participation and activity of message boards to just chasing 'Likes' by posting a picture of their car or a quick quip about one thing or another.

Site owners have been looking at this problem for a few years now, and none of us seems to have come up with a formula to ramp traffic back up. Mobile devices are what most folks use, and they sure aren't going to take the time to type up something detailed and meaningful with their thumbs (okay, some might, but not blasted many). Forums tend to encourage meaningful content creation. The trolls of old tend to try to stir up crap with the least amount of effort. These days, posting on a forum takes too much effort and ticks off too few people for a troublemaker to really get at it anymore.

We've been hit HARD by a FB group that was started under our name without our knowledge. For the longest time, folks thought they were somehow interacting with FEP.com by using it. We had complaints of the behavior of a number of folks on that unaffiliated group, which further hurt us in reputation. Thankfully, we now have some influence over the group, but the damage is done. People post over there who have no idea this site even exists, or they have abandoned the forums for the informality of FB.

Despite having two or three options for accessing our forums on a mobile device, many still think it's not user-friendly enough...but there's no good quantification of what they'd want to see. And, given that I'm no web dev, nor do we have a budget for hiring one, it's not like we have an option to create anything FB-like. Between a rock and a hard place, we are.

We need more involvement by registered users. The less people post, the less other people posts and it spirals downward. The reverse, however, is also true. If more people were more active, others would be encouraged to follow suit. Can't reply to a topic that hasn't been posted, you know?

I know I sure haven't been faultless throughout the years with how the site has been handled. Many opportunities have been missed, mistakes made, so on and so forth. That we even have enough traffic worthy of keeping the doors open is something that many other sites have not been fortunate enough to possess.

Okay, I've gone off on one heck of a tangent here...I'm chatty today for whatever reason, eh?

But, anyway, not something that's in the plans for the near future, anyhoo. So, non-issue at the moment.

Oh, and...uh...

Thanks for starting this convo. It's sparked interesting discussion, and even the big guy got into it, awesome.

I'm actually neither big nor a guy, but glad you're digging the thread.

[PaceFever79]

People are less interested in spending the time on real or online groups in the twit age. Face/Twit is not a community. It's just a bunch of people "talking" to themselves, or at each other.

[ZephyrEFI]

This forum gets by far the most action of any that I'm on. I think it's just right, not too much, not too little. Although advertisers may disagree. It's not so busy I couldn't possibly follow everything I'd want to, and it's far from dead. I'm on 4 other forums regularly, and they are all quite dead. Maybe people (and advertisers) just need to adjust what they believe a forum SHOULD be. The format has a ton of value as a reference alone. I'd hate to try and find something I posted on FB six months ago to see what people said about it.

[v8stang289]

It seems to me the four-eyed crowd here is much more friendly and willing to help than the guys on the aero forums. I love aero foxes too, but the general attitude, trash talking, and rudeness I've encountered on the predominately aero forums leads me to call foureyedpride home. I'm going to agree with the others that we don't need an aero section.

I've noticed a downturn in activity over the last couple of years. Many of the sub forums go days or weeks with no new posts, and there aren't as many active threads as there used to be. It's a shame really, as I feel this is one the best forums for car lovers.

[PaceFever79]

I can think of two regional Mustang forums that folded in the last few years and another one is a ghost site. It's tuff times both in the forum world and in the club world in general. But I feel confident that this group of enthusiasts can and will keep this community together as long as the site owner continues to allow us the privilege to come here.

[PaceFever79]

Also there is a new generation that doesn't care much about cars. Or at least they are not in love with cars the way our previous generations grew up. So the car hobby is in flux, if not winding down.

[Walking-Tall]

Oh, and...uh...

I'm actually neither big nor a guy, but glad you're digging the thread.

Oh! A thousand pardon's! I'm digging the whole place!

[ZephyrEFI]

Also there is a new generation that doesn't care much about cars. Or at least they are not in love with cars the way our previous generations grew up. So the car hobby is in flux, if not winding down.

Not exactly true. The way I understand it, there was a lull in car enthusiasm in the '90s when I came of driving age, but now it's largely back because of movies like the F&F series and others, as well as car companies doing a better job of making product that excites people, such as the pony car war revival.

I'd have to guess many of the new wave of enthusiasts were too young when forums were really popular and social media is really all they know. Also factor in guys like me, and many others here, that just got sick of the whole national forum atmosphere of immaturity, popularity contests, pissing contests, and general hostility. That certainly contributed to forum decline.

[Gemini1999]

I've always been a fan of the four eyed cars, even back when they were new. I didn't actually own one until 1997 when I bought an all original 1980 Ghia Hatchback.for 3000 from a local used car lot. I only had it a year when I stupidly let it go for something newer, but it always stuck with me and here we are. I remember when the Aero cars first came out...I didn't like the grille, I didn't like all the extra plastic on the GT and the dash looked to me like something out of a Honda.

After being with this group for a while and being very vocal about not liking the Aero cars, a friend at work got one. She took me for a ride and I learned that they really aren't all that different except for few details here and there. I even considered buying one as a daily driver, but it's hard to find one that hasn't been messed with. I've obviously turned a corner on this, so it's all water under the bridge

Anyways...I think the identity of the four eye cars is important...just like any other generation of the Mustang is. If you go online, you can find lots of Fox Body sites and FB pages, but they are largely dominated by the 87-93 cars. Even aftermarket sites like CJ Pony, LMRS, etc., use Aero cars to represent Fox bodies as a whole. It's only due to places like FEP where the 1979-86 cars have a chance to stand out. We could have an Aero section here, but it would probably dilute what FEP is about. How would the site owners be able to maintain the caveat about Aero swaps, etc., If we represented them on the site?

I like Aero cars and I appreciate them, but we really don't need a dedicated section...at least I don't think we do.

[Travis T]

Four eyed cars weren't popular after the aero cars came out that's for sure. I got my 84 in 91 and the local Mustang club stuck their collective noses up at it because it was "lame". I've had one aero Mustang and it was okay. I still just prefer the earlier foxes and this site is head and shoulders above all the other Mustang sites.

[vxr500]

While I like all fox mustangs, I feel the four eyes were way cooler because of their diversity. As stated before, the 87-93's are almost interchangeable, but think how different a 79 PC..or an 82 GT is from an 86 GT. I appreciate a site that focuses on just those years. This is more of a personal angle, but a lot of the 87 and up cars back in the day were owned by the guido/meathead/wannabe tough guy types. That's probably not the case now, but it always affected my impression of those cars. The fact that they disregarded the earlier foxes, made me like them that much more.

[vascj]

this is a great site as a reference for all things foxbody related. Simply a great group of folks here that are willing to help each other out. A LOT of give and take amongst its members. I just don't really understand why this site goes out of its way to exclude 87-93 mustangs, to maybe its own demise, but, hey, that's the leadership prerogative and none of my business, I'm just happy to be here and that it still exists. Personally I love ALL foxbody cars from 79 to 93. I don't exclude or segregate the years, they all have their unique differences.

[Raven_Ghostwolf]

Just my 2cents, Other than my 83 Capri I also have an 87 LX 5.0 Notch which, it is not getting the attention I would like to be giving it, it is my baby. I even sold 2 4eyes to keep the 87 even though it was not running at the time and once more is down from an accident.

My first Mustang was the original factory 4eye Mustang, a 1969 Coupe.



My first Fox body car was a 1980 Capri 2.3 and it is the car that got me hooked on the whole Fox platform. I have owned a few non-Mustang/Capri Fox bodies, While I am a Mustang guy first since the 70's the new Mustangs are sleek and powerful but I would pick a Fox body over them.

I am actually signed onto a few forums, there was one forum that I spent most of my time mostly because of wanting to pick up tid-bits of information for my 87 a few years ago. I dropped away from them all for a few years. Since I got my 83 Capri I have tried to be more active again. I have logged into the other forum I use to haunt and here. I find myself more drawn to this one for the friendly atmosphere and credible information I find, I rarely maybe once a week sign into the other forum, but love to log in here nearly everyday.

Even-though at this point my oldest son will be taking over the 83 in the near future and I'm not sure when I will get myself my next 4eye I still plan on visiting here. I honestly don't see the need for a 87 - 93 section because I'm sure if anyone here wants to talk about their aero car or ask a question I don't see them being snubbed for it and I'm sure someone here could give a good answer.

[PaceFever79]

Just adding to what has already been said above, the four eye cars are more diverse and unique. The fact is although the 87-93 Aero cars have deep family ties, nearly every part on them is different than the 79-86 models. Add in the Capri which didn't exist after 86 and there is even more diversity. On the other hand Aero cars were so good that Ford more or less produced the same car for 6 years and sold impressive numbers of them. Both models have their place in history.

But FEP is the only organization that is dedicated to 4 eye preservation and 4 eye enthusiasts. It's a little troubling that the site owner (and community leader) is concerned about site traffic and growth, that is always a bad sign and I wish we could just focus on the sustainability of our little community. The size of FEP doesn't matter to me so much as the quality and sustainability. I guess I'm confused if this is a business venture, or a not for profit community. It has little hope of becoming the former and good outlook to remain a vibrant community. A business is generally judged against its competition, a community is judged by its member contributions to each other and to the community at large. In that regard, FEP is a glowing success. And if there are financial bars that must be met for this institution to continue and flourish, I feel that those bars can easily be met by the "core" membership of this site. Just give us the goals you need to maintain, and I'm sure we will meet and exceed those needs for a long time to come.

[PaceFever79]

PS - Just wanted to add, it is common for the leader(s) of a not for profit to draw a salary for the management of an organization. It doesn't necessarily mean you get nothing for your time and effort.

[Walking-Tall]

^ ^ ^ Good points.

[Travis T]

I belonged to one fox forum for a while and the four eyed cars were badmouthed openly by some members. What they don't realize is had the 82 GT not been the success it was, their aero cars never would have existed as anything other than Probes. I seriously don't understand why a lot of those guys hate on four eyed cars. They're way more interesting, at least we had more than LXs, GTs and one year only Cobras.

[vascj]

I didn't even know there was a facebook site....cool page...and lots of pictures...thanks!!!

[FoxChassis]

There is a FourEyedPride.com facebook "page", which Skye started, and there is a FourEyedPride facebook "group" which was started by a non-FEP admin, and FEP admins now have control of.

[Dadsccat]

Just adding to what has already been said above, the four eye cars are more diverse and unique. The fact is although the 87-93 Aero cars have deep family ties, nearly every part on them is different than the 79-86 models. Add in the Capri which didn't exist after 86 and there is even more diversity. On the other hand Aero cars were so good that Ford more or less produced the same car for 6 years and sold impressive numbers of them. Both models have their place in history.

But FEP is the only organization that is dedicated to 4 eye preservation and 4 eye enthusiasts. It's a little troubling that the site owner (and community leader) is concerned about site traffic and growth, that is always a bad sign and I wish we could just focus on the sustainability of our little community. The size of FEP doesn't matter to me so much as the quality and sustainability. I guess I'm confused if this is a business venture, or a not for profit community. It has little hope of becoming the former and good outlook to remain a vibrant community. A business is generally judged against its competition, a community is judged by its member contributions to each other and to the community at large. In that regard, FEP is a glowing success. And if there are financial bars that must be met for this institution to continue and flourish, I feel that those bars can easily be met by the "core" membership of this site. Just give us the goals you need to maintain, and I'm sure we will meet and exceed those needs for a long time to come.

As stated before, through this thread I have come to understand the differentiation and why the focus on Mustang stops at 86 in this forum. What I don't agree with is that the 4 Eyed Mustangs were more diverse. The biggest difference is that Capri went away which in reality added some diversity to the Mustang (or alternative). In 87 I worked for a Ford dealer and the new "aero" Mustang was a huge deal. Sales numbers sky rocketed and it actually save the brand. Ford had told its dealers that they were going to discontinue the Mustang but after the sales took off they reconsidered and decided to come out with a new model for 1994. The rest is history. They did probably build the aero cars too long but the 1994 Mustang injected new energy to the brand. The 87 and newer GT was more significantly different from the LX than with the 4 Eyes and yes, they dropped the V6 but the final four years each had unique Limited Edition feature cars which are all very collectible. As for the driving dynamics? Horsepower was up and the focus on performance was evident. Performance was a progression for the 4 Eyes. The 5.0 didn't even get a 4BBL carb until 83. By 87, performance was up and the 5.0L secured itself a brand. As for driving dynamics, as an owner of both generations I can tell you the similarities far outweigh the differences. The styling cues did change more from year to year with the early fox cars but the brand image was stronger with the Aero cars. I think the success of the Aero cars overshadowed the 4 Eyes, which were every bit as significant to the brand. This is why I see a forum like this making sense and it is up to us to keep it going strong.

[PaceFever79]

+1

I was a young Ford store assistant / manager from January 1987 - 1992 and I remember the sensation the Aero cars caused. I especially remember when the 1987 models began hitting the lot, wide eyed people were coming to the dealership in droves! Often fighting over the most desirable models. You might call it a sensation that lasted well into the market crash of 1988 which put the clamp on all car sales in general. I also remember the sensation the 1979 Mustangs caused, especially the Pace Car edition. I also remember the first 5.0 equipped with a Holley 4 barrel carb, it felt like the second coming. Then came convertibles, dual exhaust, roller cams, and SEFI. If you lived through the era from 1979-93 you realized that all the years were special and pushed the envelope in their own right and in their own times. Back then it was still a mission to make exciting yet affordable Mustangs. From start to finish nothing paid tribute to the original 65 Mustang concept like the 1979-93 Mustangs. I love them. I love every Mustang.