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  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by droopie85gt View Post
    Hey, I have one of those sitting on a stand in my garage in front of my 85. I have been tempted to toss it and try my hand at a 2.3T, but I just love the sound of a big roller cam V-8!
    Awesome!
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Awesome thread!
    Thanks!
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  3. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by 85MUSTANGTGT View Post
    Hi Mike. Looking forward to see what you do with the 351.
    Hi Thomas, how's your beast working? Thanks, the plan is freshen it and it's standard bores up, but with a "zero deck" and flat tops, and maxxed-out (screw-in studs, guide plates, valves, springs, porting, and milling) 289 heads for in the neighborhood of 10.7:1, mixed with enough camshaft to make 'er THUMP

    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 08-20-2017 at 07:30 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  4. #204
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    I know I'm evil for even suggesting it..... but what the heck.

    you could track down some 351C, Boss302, or 400M heads. Plane those ol heads down and make a Clevor with around 11:1. With the right cam and intake it's big power with a very high RPM range. Those darn Cleveland heads flow 300 CFM on the intake side.

    The other thought is some of the recent alunimum heads to hit the market cost less than the 289 heads and make a lot more power. Get paid to upgrade, sell the 289 heads.

  5. #205

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    Nuthin' less than just about free, lol, and these 289 heads are not in need of a bunch of repair either... the usual marketing hype discouraging the use of good ole parts that've got lots of life and entertainment value in 'em, lol. Also nothing that some valves and porting and planing that won't equalize the playing field with some of the lower end aftermarket offerings. All suggested, while great suggestions, cost oodles more $ than I have to work with. Any aftermarket cylinder heads are an easy grand in Canadian dollars... I can do a whole helluva lot with half that much into the whole engine, and comparatively accomplish more. I figure roughly tripling this jalopy's roughly 100 horsepower it's got right now will prove to be a surprising amount of power enough for me for a good while, and at the same time display what can still be done in 2017 on a shoestring budget. The 7.5 in it would need addressed shortly thereafter, lol
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 08-21-2017 at 06:27 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  6. #206

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    There you go, sure you can by newer stuff, but why not take what you have and improve it?

    I know I would love to have the money to buy all the neat new things, but that sometimes pulls us away from the roots of hot rodding itself.

    I'm not meaning to take away from the cool things out there, I lust after AFR heads. Just look at what you get to learn doing it yourself and the great satisfaction when it runs and drives because of what you did.

  7. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davedacarpainter View Post
    There you go, sure you can by newer stuff, but why not take what you have and improve it?

    I know I would love to have the money to buy all the neat new things, but that sometimes pulls us away from the roots of hot rodding itself.

    I'm not meaning to take away from the cool things out there, I lust after AFR heads. Just look at what you get to learn doing it yourself and the great satisfaction when it runs and drives because of what you did.
    Couldn't have said it better. Thank you, Sir
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  8. #208

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    I think with the extra stroke of the 351, it will be fun no matter how you build it.
    Thomas

    1985 Mustang GT - Build Thread
    347 (Stock Block, Scat Crank & Rods, Probe Pistons, 11:1 CR, AFR 185's, PP Crosswind Intake, Custom-ground Comp Hyd Roller Cam, Scorpion 1.6 Roller Rockers, Holley 3310-4), T-5, 8.8 w/3.55's, MM SFC's, T/A, PHB, LCA's, Strut Tower Brace, K-Member Brace, Bilstein HD Struts/Shocks, MM/H&R Springs, SN95 5-Lug, Cobra Brakes, '04 Mach 1 Steering Rack

  9. #209
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Nebraska
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    No need to buy *new*!anything .... and I respect that the old bones of that 289 have soul...... just suggesting they are worth more dollars vs their performance than some other heads that can be had. I only paid $600 for my Edelbrock heads, for example.

    I had D0OE fuelie heads with a 360 degree Offenhauser "split dual plane" on my 1974 351W. The machinist offered me nearly $1400 for my heads when I went to pick them up after having $400 in work done to them. I paid the $400 bill and kept my original heads which likely was an $1800 mistake. I could have done something cleavor with it and gotten to something a lot closer to what I really wanted. At the time I just didn't know.

    Anyway - I respect the discussion above entirely. Just commenting based upon my own journey.

  10. #210

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    I wasn't going to spill all the beans on these 289 heads I intend to use, because most people would simply snicker and dismiss the whole of what I'd like to accomplish and share here. There is no appreciable value in these nearly-never-sought-after C8 289 cylinder heads that managed 8.7:1 with their 63cc chambers on a 289 2-bbl in 1968. I got them as part payment for a Holley 750 I built, the guides are good, the 99% of the seats that are good won't matter anyway with the replacement 1.84"/1.54" valves and hardened exhaust seats I plan to get inexpensively, I pulled the 3/8 press-in rocker studs out and will install screw-in studs, the rail rockers and 3/8 balls and lock nuts are there for correct preload adjustment, removing about 0.050" from their decks subtracts about 10cc for 53cc chambers, Chevy "Z28 style" valve springs (104lbs on the seat, and 277lbs open) work with the smaller SBF "2-bbl" valve spring retainers, all sorts of iron filings out of the ports will be leaving the building, and with 5.07" length valves and approximately 1.75" valve spring installed heights, a camshaft with 0.540"+ works with ease... in a nutshell, their performance will be light years ahead of what Ford released in 1968 when the poor 289 was being phased out, and when I say shoestring budget, I mean one or part of one shoestring, lol...

    I respect your suggestions that make all sorts of sense, and entirely welcome you sharing the journeys you've been on. Experience is priceless and we've all got some.
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 08-22-2017 at 01:50 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  11. #211

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    $hit just got real I went and tore apart and brought "Thumper" the 351W home last night...







    Initially upon disassembling, everything important looks as expected and in decent condition. A real good bath and closer inspection and measuring is next...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  12. #212

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    De-greasing... the wonderful, time-consuming necessary evil...








    I believe that second digit ^^^ is a 5, for D5AE-6015-ED-22, AKA a 1975 casting... was told it's from a mid/late '70's Thunderbird, although, it does have the stronger spot faces on the rods and the "football" headed rod bolts, a tougher "truck" thing...


    The rubber is good, but gonna need one of those repair sleeves for the seal surface's groove:




    For very reasonable dollars, I brought a big strong friend home with me...



    ... in addition to some BBK shorties...


    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 09-08-2017 at 09:17 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  13. #213

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    How fun is that! I start bringing home my junk yard engine next week. I can't wait to start tearing into it. I'll live vicariously through your work for now.

  14. #214

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    Boatloads... not really, lol! Awesome, I look forward to seeing your progress!
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  15. #215

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    Had to reduce Holley's (10-32 threaded) idle air bleed diameters 0.005",



    to counter what seems to be "winter"/"oxygenated" fuel (ever so slight "trailer hitching" (lean - speeding up, slowing down, at steady light throttle application)) at gas stations already... ... she's running smoothly and like a clock again ... it would be nice though, if the a$$holes at oil companies stopped making every move always about increased fuel necessity.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  16. #216
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Grand Junction, CO/RR TX
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    14,206

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    Had to reduce Holley's (10-32 threaded) idle air bleed diameters 0.005",



    to counter what seems to be "winter"/"oxygenated" fuel (ever so slight "trailer hitching" (lean - speeding up, slowing down, at steady light throttle application)) at gas stations already... ... she's running smoothly and like a clock again ... it would be nice though, if the a$$holes at oil companies stopped making every move always about increased fuel necessity.

    Glad you got your fuel issue sorted out.

    I will agree that the different fuel mixtures are a PITA, but after talking to my wife's uncle who has been in Oil for 40+ years, He said the oil companies have little to do with the different blends. In the US the EPA, CARB, and local municipalities are the ones that dictate what the oil companies have to produce to be sold in the different areas and the different times of the year. I think he said there are something like 11 or more different blends of gas for the US in Unleaded alone just for the Summer months. Then you have the Winter months, etc. Bottom line is it could all be done with much less. Oh well, off the soap box. Good luck with your build.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  17. #217
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    Had to reduce Holley's (10-32 threaded) idle air bleed diameters 0.005",



    to counter what seems to be "winter"/"oxygenated" fuel (ever so slight "trailer hitching" (lean - speeding up, slowing down, at steady light throttle application)) at gas stations already... ... she's running smoothly and like a clock again ... it would be nice though, if the a$$holes at oil companies stopped making every move always about increased fuel necessity.

    You can create a Mixture Control Solenoid for your Holley, if the simplicity of just changin out those delightfull allen screws ever causes you grief.

    Which I doubt...


    The MCS system as you knew it from the bad old Ford days:-

    aka 1985 MotorCraft 2-bbl 2150A
    or 1980-1986 Carter YFA 1-bbl style.

    That allows you to tune the lean or rich on the fly with all the great fully operational stuff you've already done.

    That's the ages old Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) for float bowl stage verses lean or rich for fuel delivery from the jet.

    Carb still gets to function 100% on its own the way you calibrated it, but you can tune it on the fly using a narrow band O2 or wide band AFR to "sweep" the air fuel ratio up of down from your favoured air ratios via resolved lookup table voltage or current.

    Stand alone voltage controlled Titanium, Zirconium narrow band 02s

    or ECM controlled later wide band pump/ reference cell Air Fuel Ratio Meters which are current controlled

    Each can be run off a Pulse Width Modulated processor from Ardunio, a little 65 buck processing computer.

    Irrespective of type, you can run code to swing A/F ratio from resultant voltages, and hold your A/F ratios under certain conditions.


    On old Feedback Fords, this was done via the Micro Processing Unit or EECII or EECIII or EECIV computers, which often fell off line because of ISC or knock sensor or fault code generated failure....you've been through all that jazz before on your EECIV CFi, eh?

    Cool thing is that you get to call the shots, and limit its reign by simply controlling only AFR.


    Fit up is just like the Holley 350 cfm 2-bbl 2300 series replacements for the Variable Venturi 2-bbl Fords from 1978 to 1985 (or 78-92 in Canada or the Ford Police 351 Cruisers ).

    The back mounted MCS is like this.



    The Holley 2-bbl MCU contolled system didn't have an O2 sensor just an ISC, and some air bleeds at the back. Those attachments allow you to control idle and main air bleeds.








    From http://www.cardomain.com/ridepost/38...r-regular-cab/

    "1986 Ford Ranger Regular Cab by smokeybearfan" The delightfull V6 2.8 Ranger 2150A Fix up.

    The stock last years 2150A Motorcraft was like this







  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    Glad you got your fuel issue sorted out.

    I will agree that the different fuel mixtures are a PITA, but after talking to my wife's uncle who has been in Oil for 40+ years, He said the oil companies have little to do with the different blends. In the US the EPA, CARB, and local municipalities are the ones that dictate what the oil companies have to produce to be sold in the different areas and the different times of the year. I think he said there are something like 11 or more different blends of gas for the US in Unleaded alone just for the Summer months. Then you have the Winter months, etc. Bottom line is it could all be done with much less. Oh well, off the soap box. Good luck with your build.
    Agreed. Always one form of corporatism or another.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  19. #219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    You can create a Mixture Control Solenoid for your Holley, if the simplicity of just changin out those delightfull allen screws ever causes you grief.

    Which I doubt...


    The MCS system as you knew it from the bad old Ford days:-

    aka 1985 MotorCraft 2-bbl 2150A
    or 1980-1986 Carter YFA 1-bbl style.

    That allows you to tune the lean or rich on the fly with all the great fully operational stuff you've already done.

    That's the ages old Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) for float bowl stage verses lean or rich for fuel delivery from the jet.

    Carb still gets to function 100% on its own the way you calibrated it, but you can tune it on the fly using a narrow band O2 or wide band AFR to "sweep" the air fuel ratio up of down from your favoured air ratios via resolved lookup table voltage or current.

    Stand alone voltage controlled Titanium, Zirconium narrow band 02s

    or ECM controlled later wide band pump/ reference cell Air Fuel Ratio Meters which are current controlled

    Each can be run off a Pulse Width Modulated processor from Ardunio, a little 65 buck processing computer.

    Irrespective of type, you can run code to swing A/F ratio from resultant voltages, and hold your A/F ratios under certain conditions.


    On old Feedback Fords, this was done via the Micro Processing Unit or EECII or EECIII or EECIV computers, which often fell off line because of ISC or knock sensor or fault code generated failure....you've been through all that jazz before on your EECIV CFi, eh?

    Cool thing is that you get to call the shots, and limit its reign by simply controlling only AFR.


    Fit up is just like the Holley 350 cfm 2-bbl 2300 series replacements for the Variable Venturi 2-bbl Fords from 1978 to 1985 (or 78-92 in Canada or the Ford Police 351 Cruisers ).

    The back mounted MCS is like this.



    The Holley 2-bbl MCU contolled system didn't have an O2 sensor just an ISC, and some air bleeds at the back. Those attachments allow you to control idle and main air bleeds.








    From http://www.cardomain.com/ridepost/38...r-regular-cab/

    "1986 Ford Ranger Regular Cab by smokeybearfan" The delightfull V6 2.8 Ranger 2150A Fix up.

    The stock last years 2150A Motorcraft was like this






    Your doubt is accurate. I can appreciate the tech, but I won't go to the dark side, but instead prefer to stick with my senses and connection with my machine and $1.47 each for a change out of 10-32x3/16" brass set screws drilled a different size for perfect function.
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 10-31-2017 at 06:19 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  20. #220
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    Nebraska
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    The old W looks like it needs a good bath in oven cleaner to start with. Good luck with your build. I've always been tempted to drop a 351W based stroker in a foxbody. A nice Cleavor build should make 650HP at 8000. Oof! That's a lot of power!

  21. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    The old W looks like it needs a good bath in oven cleaner to start with. Good luck with your build. I've always been tempted to drop a 351W based stroker in a foxbody. A nice Cleavor build should make 650HP at 8000. Oof! That's a lot of power!
    Thank you. The 408 stroker's really kick a$$. It got that, just no de-rusting vinegar-water bath yet, my friend, and me and my wishful thinking honing thus far, that still didn't yet eliminate the ring ridges, produced 4.010+" across all 8 cylinders... so, if I do use this block, and not find another good standard bores block, she needs at least 0.020" overbores. I was hoping to avoid that... but, it is what it is. We'll see.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  22. #222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    Your doubt is accurate. I can appreciate the tech, but I won't go to the dark side, and stick with my senses and connection with my machine and $1.47 each for a change out of 10-32x3/16" brass set screws drilled a different size for perfect function.
    Or you can stick a "reverse idle" metering block on it. Seasonal changes with a turn of a screw, don't even need to remove the air cleaner.
    Last edited by mrriggs; 09-16-2017 at 08:29 PM.

  23. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrriggs View Post
    Or you can stick a "reverse idle" metering block on it. Seasonal changes with a turn of a screw, don't even need to remove the air cleaner.
    Weeeeeeell... while that is certainly viable... my apparent OCD won't allow such stepping back from control, lol... You were right there in this very department... how is that going, Sir?...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  24. #224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    Weeeeeeell... while that is certainly viable... my apparent OCD won't allow such stepping back from control, lol... You were right there in this very department... how is that going, Sir?...
    Backed out the air screws a smidge at the start of summer. Haven't needed to screw them back in yet.

    I'm a believer, transfer slot tuning is the single most important adjustment you can make to a [street driven] carburetor. As you have documented so well in this thread. If you want crisp, strong, smooth acceleration AND better gas mileage then you have to dial in the transfer slots.

  25. #225

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    Amen to that brother, that is squarely where the magic is!
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

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