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  1. #76

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    Alright, i found some more hearsay on The Corral.

    If you already have the 15:1 ratio steering rack, then the only real way to do it is to increase the pressure regulators spring pressure. Dont try it with a larger pulley as it is not a very smart idea. Basically what you want to do is to increase the amount of pressure it takes before the regulators relief valve opens. The pressure regulator is inside that big nut on the side of the pump. You would remove the pressure line from the pump. Then take a large wrench and unscrew the pressure regulator. You would have to disassemble it to get to the spring. Take the spring to a hardware store or go to www.mcmastercarr.com and find a stronger/stiffer spring. You might have to experiment to get the feel you desire, but it can be done. As a matter of fact, that is how the factory tuned the steering effort/feel on the different cars while utilizing the same basic pump.
    And to clarify, I believe this is what you lose control of when you buy a reman pump. You never know what you're getting as far as spring pressure and therefore steering feel. Is that correct?

    I have two old P/S pumps, the one that's on the car that came from who knows where, and one from an '87 LX 5.0. In theory i should be able to compare the springs on these two and the new one and pick the one with the highest tension. What do y'all think?

    Who knows what I'll end up with. The two pumps i have may not have come from cars with "sport suspension", so they might be lame. I guess we'll find out. I just don't want to waste this good rack with a pump that will put so much assist to it, it'll water down all that Cobra goodness.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  2. #77

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    Interesting to note, this article:

    http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-t...ered-straight/

    makes very little mention of the pump. Perhaps if you have the right rack, the pump doesn't really matter? Sorry, Trey that's pretty much exactly what you just said, but i felt the need to dig deeper since "you should be fine" is not exactly a ringing endorsement.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  3. #78

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    The PS pump's job is to supply the rack with a constant flow of fluid. As long as it does that regardless of pump resistance and engine RPM, then nothing else about it really matters.

    One problem with Ford pumps is that their output volume flow creeps up at higher engine RPMs. This makes the steering get lighter at high engine RPM. There are aftermarket pumps that can be used which don't do this.

    The steering assist is going to be directly proportional to the pump volume flow. If the pump volume flow is too low, you run the risk of the rack running out of fluid and the PS system loosing assist during a quick steering motion. This is not fun.

    We didn't try to get into it in the article linked above as it was just too much information to cover.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  4. #79
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    Interesting to note, this article:

    http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-t...ered-straight/

    makes very little mention of the pump. Perhaps if you have the right rack, the pump doesn't really matter? Sorry, Trey that's pretty much exactly what you just said, but i felt the need to dig deeper since "you should be fine" is not exactly a ringing endorsement.
    Jack has already answered the majority of this, so I won't get into that any further. In regards to my posts, I apologize for not being more in depth and giving a more detailed answer. I have a tendency to get run long on these types of explanations and the last week and a half. I just haven't had the spare time due to my parents visiting and my daughter graduating from High School. I think it's the least amount of time I have spent on FEP since I joined.

    My experience on street cars has always been to match the pump and the rack regardless of what vehicle they are going into. That seems to work fine for me and many others. So 15:1 racks get a 15:1 pump, 20:1 racks gets the 20:1 pump. I usually just try to match the year model of the pumps and racks, although we all know that with Mcpart stores these days there are no guarantees. When you get into the SN95 racks things can get a bit more complicated trying to do that especially with the Mod motors from 96 on. I personally have not done the SN95 rack, which is surprising since virtually everything else under my PC is 03/04 Cobra. It's on my list of mods, but I just haven't done it yet. I have driven a couple of buddy's cars with the modification and everything seems to work "just fine" with a 5.0 15:1 pump. OH! I mean the fluid flow is directly proportional to the fluid requirements of the rack and the steering is extremely precise, well assisted, and balanced.

    Good Luck with the modifications.

    Trey
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
    1982 Capri RS 5.0 4spd T-tops

  5. #80

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    Thanks, guys. I feel like I have a solid plan now. What do people do without you?
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  6. #81
    FEP Member Tigger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    I think you missed Jack's post #69 above. The fitting for the PS pumps changed in 1990 to a metric fitting rather than the standard fitting the 1989 and earlier cars used. So your High Pressure hose needs to match your pump. The fittings in the rack didn't change only the pump. So make sure you match them correctly otherwise . . . .

    Trey
    Interesting thread. I parted a 90k mile 90gt and kept the rack as a spare because it was OEM and super clean. By what I read here it would be pretty much a bolt in for my 86. I wouldn't need to change anything unless it was worn. Would that be a correct statement?
    67 Mustang Coupe
    96 Tangerine GT
    86 Saleen #179

  7. #82

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    Yes. To use the PS pump on your car, you would need to remove the outlet fitting from the 1986 PS pump and transfer it to the 1990 pump.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  8. #83
    FEP Member Tigger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
    Yes. To use the PS pump on your car, you would need to remove the outlet fitting from the 1986 PS pump and transfer it to the 1990 pump.
    Do I need to change the pump to use the 90 rack? Previous owner kept the drivetrain so I did not get the 90 pump.
    67 Mustang Coupe
    96 Tangerine GT
    86 Saleen #179

  9. #84

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    No, but it sounded like you wanted to update to the never PS system parts.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  10. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    I was wondering if there was an issue with air trapped in the system from when you swapped it into the Zeph but I suppose you maybe didn't break any of the connections to introduce air. Here the basic method I'm going to be using soon below. There are other more elaborate pressure/flow tests but who these days wouldn't just replace before that step?

    Note: these are out of the 1979 car manual and mention Type F Trans fluid which may or may not be correct for your application.

    Well i bought a vacuum pump specifically for this purpose and was trying to use the old stick a fitting in your old cap and hook your vacuum pump to that method, but for some #$%& reason i just can't seem to get a good seal.

    I even tried cobbling something together with a toilet flush rubber flapper thing, but that didn't work either. So, i ordered the actual adapter made by Mityvac. I guess it doesn't really matter since i have to take the whole mess back apart to fix they stupid passenger side rack seal anyway. Still frustrating though.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  11. #86

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    The Mityvac fitting makes it much easier, but i think i still have air in the lines. Using the above procedure, I think I've bled as much air as I can. That said, i did start with a completely empty system. Any other ideas as to how i can get more air out?

    The steering seems underboosted at low speeds right now, and my gap at the top of the wheel is still there but greatly diminished. It's probably less than an inch vs. 6 inches before. I'm thinking an alignment might help with that, it needs one anyway since I've been fiddling with the tie rods. The other thing I'm considering though is poly or solid rack bushings. Thoughts on those? Pluses? Minuses?
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  12. #87

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    Brad,

    As an experiment:

    Have someone sit in the car with the engine off and the steering unlocked. Lay down in front of the front tire so that you can see the steering rack housing and k-member. Have the person in the car turn the steering back and forth within the range that you say that it has play in. Watch the steering rack housing. The housing will move back and forth on the k-member, but the tires will never turn. All of this steering rack housing motion is from the compliance in the steering rack rubber bushings.

    If you have the person in the car turn the steering further, the tire will start to turn back and forth.

    If solid metal steering rack bushings are used with a solid steering shaft, there will be some PS pump whine conducted into the interior of the car. This is normally only audible when turning the steering in parking lots.

    Polyurethane steering rack bushings won't conduct any noise into the interior, but they will still allow some motion of the steering rack housing.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  13. #88

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    Thanks, I look forward to seeing that for myself! And thanks for the info!
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  14. #89
    FEP Super Member mustangxtreme's Avatar
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    Brad, the poly rack bushings I am running on my 83L tightened the steering up considerably.
    Dave

    If common sense was common wouldn't it just be sense?

    1983 Capri L T top 5.0 efi aod
    1983 Capri RS Turbo
    1981 Black Magic 400 c6
    93 F-250 351 5sp 4x4

  15. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by mustangxtreme View Post
    Brad, the poly rack bushings I am running on my 83L tightened the steering up considerably.
    Thanks, yeah i may start there since i'd rather not have the whine come inside the car.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  16. #91

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    This is an old thread but I have a RACK question... I have an 88 Turbo Coupe rack to go on my 83 Capri turbo RS (which is leaking as fast as I pour it in practically). Is this a bad move? Is it SN 95 time?

  17. #92

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    88 turbo coupe was the 15:1 ratio. What do you want it to do?
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  18. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haystack View Post
    88 turbo coupe was the 15:1 ratio. What do you want it to do?
    Install it in an 83 Capri. ... I think I read somewhere the track width was wider?

  19. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by foot2floor View Post
    Install it in an 83 Capri. ... I think I read somewhere the track width was wider?
    I don't think that's true, but if it was, it's easily solved by swapping inner tie rod ends. That's what I had to do with my '04 Cobra rack.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  20. #95
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Match the pump to rack. That way, no guessing. No substitute for homework.
    Hearsay is ok for perspective. Responses may lead to tips, tricks.

    If changing pumps, use unknown pump as core return. Save oem for parts, ref.
    Mixing and matching to save money gets unknown outcome forever. More work too.
    Match and be sure. Trust rebuilders. They miss every now and then.
    Think positive. Play the odds. Hard to out engineer the engineers or pros.

    Rock Auto lists several racks for 88 tbird 2.3t. AZ is pretty good ref on this too. Others no.
    One 88 t-bird rack listed is Cardone 22-207, performance suspension.

    2015, installed a reman 22207 rack and pump in my 79.
    Target year 1983 Mustang 15:1 sport/performance suspension rack, to upgrade from 79 TRW 20:1.
    Rack and pump from AZ. Desired local purchase in case of problems. Good prices.
    Rack: Duralast 6439. Yellow paint stamp on rack says 22207. It is 2.25-2.5 turns lock to lock.
    Duralast 6199 pump. The pump match for the 15:1 sport rack.
    New 79 outer tie rod ends. Matched to year of car.
    New hoses. New rack bushings were included with rack.
    Air in system was not an issue. If any, bled out using normal procedure.
    Working fine. Absolutely no leaks or any noises.
    No hisses, moans, whatsoever all weather temps from day one.

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