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  1. #51
    FEP Supporter 82GTforME's Avatar
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    Default Steering Racks: What Am I Looking At?

    There were no 20:1 Ford racks that I have heard of.

    I'll post up some other thoughts on the thread Brad.

    I upgraded the TRW rack in my '82 along with the pump a few years ago and never gave much thought about the type of Ford rack I got. I wouldn't think there would really be that noticeable of a performance difference. At least not what I would notice for my driving needs. I vaguely recall discussing performance handling but can't recall of that's what I got based on availability.

    Based on the symptoms you gave at the beginning of the thread you talked about the slop or play in the first six inches or so. It's been recommended to check the mechanical parts but don't know if you checked the shaft etc.

    Here's the page out of the Ford book. Just to rule out the obvious.



    I was wondering if there was an issue with air trapped in the system from when you swapped it into the Zeph but I suppose you maybe didn't break any of the connections to introduce air. Here the basic method I'm going to be using soon below. There are other more elaborate pressure/flow tests but who these days wouldn't just replace before that step?

    Note: these are out of the 1979 car manual and mention Type F Trans fluid which may or may not be correct for your application.

    Last edited by 82GTforME; 12-14-2015 at 09:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis T View Post
    I think this is my favorite car on the site right now.
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    This is the best thread on the internet.
    Darran
    1982-1C (Black) T-Top GT RestoMod:http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...he-Road-Thread
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  2. #52

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    The system has been opened. It's possible there's air in it. I never did anything like is described in the second pic when I topped it off. I figured the air would bubble out on its own like during a cooling system refill.

    You know what's ridiculous is I notice this rack seems to be leaking in the same spot the last one did which led me to replace it in the first place!
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  3. #53
    FEP Supporter 82GTforME's Avatar
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    Default

    Not fully aware of the internals of the racks but if there is a small amount of air trapped in there, it would compress first before the hydraulic assist kicks in. That MAY be something to look at.
    The reconditioned TRW rack I put in our orange car had a leaky fitting on the bottom right out of the box and I hadn't filled it yet. It snugged up and seems okay now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis T View Post
    I think this is my favorite car on the site right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by BLUECRAPI
    This is the best thread on the internet.
    Darran
    1982-1C (Black) T-Top GT RestoMod:http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...he-Road-Thread
    1986-9L (Oxford White) SVO: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-did-1986-SVO
    1979 (85:Tangerine) Coupe (my son's): http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...gerine-Machine
    1979 (3F:Light Medium Blue) Coupe (one day to be my other son's!) http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...other-79-Coupe!

  4. #54

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    Just to muddy this up some, supposedly all but the sport models of tbird/cougar had a 20:1 ratio from 83-88. I've also heard some people say all 87-88 cougarbirds had a 15:1 ratio rack.

    I bought a 87 bird where the casting was broken off at the high pressure powersteering line. I replaced it with a 87gt rack from a junkyard car that confidently already had the engine pulled. I didn't even change the tie rods, just bolted it in place, hooked up the lines and drove it for an alignment.

    I honestly didn't notice any difference except it didn't leak and turned a bit easier with fluid pumping.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  5. #55

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    Yeah, it seems the more information I find, the less clear things become. I found this thread:

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...t-TRX-question

    In it, Jack had this to say about replacing a Fox rack:

    If you want to keep a Fox rack in your car, get one for a 1992-93 V8. These have an SPR code of ET or FW. If you can't find this rack, get one from a 1987-91 V8. These have an SPR code of DB. They are the most common.


    That jives with what I found earlier about a "DB" rack being from an LX 5.0L. What I don't understand though is, how does that compare with this:

    5.0L Rack & Pinions

    Cardone 22207
    Reman.; Complete Unit; Power Steering; w/Performance Suspension
    Lifetime Limited Warranty
    Ships in 1 day
    Weight: 19.7 lbs.
    $74.94
    $37.00 core


    Cardone 22203F
    Reman.; Complete Unit; Power Steering; w/o Performance Suspension (Ford Gear) w/1 Piece Mounting Bushing
    Lifetime Limited Warranty
    Ships in 1 day
    Weight: 20.8 lbs.
    $74.94
    $37.00 core


    Did the two have the same SPR codes (which wouldn't make sense to me)? Were they differences in model year? Is a 22207 the same as SPR code ET or FW? Does "DB" actually stand for "DoucheBag"? So many questions...
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  6. #56

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    Ford made 20:1 racks for years. Se post #45.

    The SPR code tells you what exact application that the rack came from. It is essentially the part number. The SPR code itself doesn't tell you anything about the ratio, assist level, valve linearity, etc. You need Ford internal data to look these things up, but you do this with the SPR code.

    To understand details about how a power steering rack is built and operates, see the article linked below. Make sure to look at the photos.

    http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-t...ered-straight/

    When reading the above article it is important to keep in mind that a power steering rack is a servo system. The goal of the system is to provide power assistance while nulling (zeroing) out the torque at the input shaft (torque across the torsion bar).

    The easy way to build a vacuum bleeder for a Ford PS system is this. Take an extra cap from a PS pump. Drill a small hole straight through the vent hole in the cap. Glue a small piece of brass tubing into the hole. Now you can apply a vacuum to the system with a handheld vacuum pump.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  7. #57
    FEP Supporter 82GTforME's Avatar
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    Default

    Seems like the suppliers really don't know what they have. Descriptions are not consistent anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
    Unfortunately the Fox racks are so old now, that it is very difficult to find out what is different about the racks from the SPR codes anymore. Everyone who knew is long gone from Ford. It is almost impossible to find cars with the original racks in them anymore. This makes it very difficult for us to quantify the differences. Since the rack valving got better and better over the SN95 years, I assume that it also got better and better over the Fox years. Given that, I would not obsess about getting the same SPR code as you currently have. I would try to find the last Fox SPR code.
    I think you should just go with manual steering and get rid of all the confusion!

  8. #58

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    Brad,

    You will never be able to map an SPR code to a aftermarket rebuilders part number. This is mostly because the rebuilders don't know anything about SPR codes and more importantly all of the engineering changes inside the rack that each SPR code represents. This is why two racks from a rebuilder with their identical part number can feel quite a bit different. If you want to get a rack with a known feel, you need to source the rack yourself with the correct SPR code, then have it rebuilt by a rebuilder that does not do racks in batches. You need them to NOT mix and match any of the internal parts with other racks.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  9. #59
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    Default

    If you do get a reman rack I'd go with a UniSteer

    Re-manufactured in Ohio by MAVAL.

  10. #60

    Default

    Alright so, if want to replace it with something else because of the leak, an A1 Cardone 22-207 rack MAY or MAY NOT be an improvement in feel, considering that now I know I have a 15:1 Ford rack. It's probably going to be about as good as I can expect from a reman.

    I will definitely try getting the air out, great tip about the old reservoir cap by the way, and I will see where it gets me to put standard drive pulleys back on. Good, this may not end up costing me anything!

    Thanks all!
    Last edited by ZephyrEFI; 12-15-2015 at 03:09 PM.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  11. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    I think you should just go with manual steering and get rid of all the confusion!
    No bloody way! I'm not sacrificing comfort and every day usability for a few extra ponies. It always baffles me why people do that to cars that aren't track-only! This car WILL be every-day usable if it kills me.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  12. #62

    Default

    Okay all, i took the car for a ride today with the stock pulleys in place, and the PS pump spinning at full speed. The dead spot is REALLY noticeable now. You can really feel when it grabs and when it's in the dead zone. It looks like she's a little low on fluid (whether that's related or not, i don't know). Unfortunately the steering thing is low on my priority list at this point because i still need to do a bunch of other things before i really consider it road worthy. I just slapped it together for a show tomorrow down the street.

    Let me ask you this though. Could this be an alignment thing? If i dialed in a bunch more caster, would that help? I would think it would. Or perhaps mess with the toe?
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  13. #63

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    Brad,

    I would start by having someone clamp the OD of the steering shaft with some vise grip pliers and hold them against the headers or k-member. Then you turn the steering wheel back and forth to see if there is any play. If there is play, then check that the top pinch bolt in the steering shaft is tight. Also check the condition of the rag joint. If there is no play, remove the vise grips. If there is then play, then some is going on in the rack or after it.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
    Brad,

    I would start by having someone clamp the OD of the steering shaft with some vise grip pliers and hold them against the headers or k-member. Then you turn the steering wheel back and forth to see if there is any play. If there is play, then check that the top pinch bolt in the steering shaft is tight. Also check the condition of the rag joint. If there is no play, remove the vise grips. If there is then play, then some is going on in the rack or after it.
    I'll try that! Thanks!
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  15. #65

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    Ummm, well, i finally got some time to do some diagnosis, and it didn't take me long to figure out what the problem is. Check this out.



    I'm kind of not that surprised. when i installed the QA1 K-member which extends the wheelbase by an inch, i had to kind of pull on the steering shaft to get the rag joint to bolt up at the inch-farther-forward position. So, this leaves me thinking of going to an MM steering shaft. I see they telescope to allow for different rack positions, but do they extend far enough to work for me?

    Also I'm considering replacing my rack at this point because i see it's leaking at the same spot my old one did. I'm considering an SN95 or even a Terminator one, but do you think that would be worth it to me? My car is a cruiser that rides on 16" wheels and 225/50 16 summer performance tires. H&R Sport springs, Tokico Blue dampeners, and all new rubber bushings.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  16. #66

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    Brad,

    The stock steering column can extend and collapse. You may need a slide hammer to get it pulled out of the firewall. Then tap it inward to get the steering shaft on the rack the correct distance.

    If you are going to replace the steering rack and change the steering shaft, it costs no extra money to do it with SN95 parts, so you'd be crazy not to. This will get you a much newer rack that hopefully isn't rebuilt.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  17. #67

    Default

    Alright, dammit, I pulled the trigger! Bought a MM steering shaft, and a used, low mile take-off Terminator rack off eBay!

    So now there's just the question of which pump to use... I see you can buy reman pumps, but they say they fit all sorts of cars. How do i get the right feel? My existing pump is from a mystery car, so i have no idea if it has V8 Mustang valving or not. I would like to go to a new/reman pump though just to make sure i don't pump a bunch of chunks through my highly sought-after rack.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  18. #68
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Default

    At this point, I am not sure you can actually buy a non re-manufactured pump from any parts store. You might be able to find a NOS Ford/Motorcraft unit if you are willing to search and willing to pay the much higher cost.

    Most likely a pump from any 86-94 5.0 Mustang will do the trick for you and be just fine. No guarantees on what you will actually get in regards to the parts store, but you should be fine. Just remember to use the Type F transmission fluid for the power steering and NOT actual power steering fluid from the parts stores. If you are concerned about any trash in your system, then I would flush everything before the swap and most likely just install a new pressure hose and return line to be safe.

    Best of Luck!

    Trey
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
    1982 Capri RS 5.0 4spd T-tops

  19. #69

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    Brad,

    If you buy a 1984-89 PS pump, you will need the matching high pressure outlet hose for it. This might be the same hose as the one that is currently coming out of the pump on your car. Without seeing a photo of your pump, there is no way to know if it is or not. If you purchase a 1990-93 PS pump, you must get a new PS high pressure hose as the pump fitting is metric.

    I wouldn't waste any money. Go to a Ford dealer and buy a Motorcraft PS pump.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  20. #70
    FEP Supporter 4-barrel Mike's Avatar
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    Brad, I'm cheap. I'd try the new parts with the pump that's on there now and only replace it if it was unsatisfactory.

    Mike
    1985 ascMcLaren 5.0 SC Roadster
    My '78 Fairmont build - http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...539-78-Big-Red

  21. #71

    Default

    I got the idea somewhere that pressure valve that determines feel is replaceable. I was thinking what i might do is, buy a reman pump, probably Motorcraft from Rock Auto, and then swap in a valve from a V8 car for the correct feel. Thing is, i don't know if either of the ps pumps i have at home are, in fact, from a V8 car. Also, my fluid always looks and smells burnt, so i'd rather just go with the cheap insurance of a new/reman one.

    I replaced my high and low pressure hoses years ago, and i wish i'd written down which ones i ended up with. Buuuuut, i didn't.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  22. #72

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    Here's a pic of my pump.

    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  23. #73

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    Here's the answer to whether or not the Fox hoses will thread into the SN95 rack. Found it on the Corral.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley
    Your existing power steering hoses will connect directly to any SN95 (94-04) Mustang rack. Just make sure to replace both Teflon washers so you don't have fluid leaks.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  24. #74
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    Here's the answer to whether or not the Fox hoses will thread into the SN95 rack. Found it on the Corral.
    I think you missed Jack's post #69 above. The fitting for the PS pumps changed in 1990 to a metric fitting rather than the standard fitting the 1989 and earlier cars used. So your High Pressure hose needs to match your pump. The fittings in the rack didn't change only the pump. So make sure you match them correctly otherwise . . . .

    Trey
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
    1982 Capri RS 5.0 4spd T-tops

  25. #75

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    Didn't miss it. I ordered a new pressure line with the new pump. I went with the later style. Why? I don't know. I'm pretty sure my old pump/line is the earlier style.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

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