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  1. #1

    Default Factory temperature gauge ?

    I'm not certain whether there's a 180-degree or 195-degree thermostat in the car. I'm assuming
    it's likely a 195. Is what you'll see below about where the needle should be sitting at when the
    car's warmed up, after/during the thermostat's open? It hovers around the N and no higher up
    the scale of NORMAL... useless. I guess it could be somebody put a 160-degree thermostat in it,
    but the hoses under the hood get good and hot. Is this kind of gauge reading "normal"?
    (This is while sitting, warmed up, idling)



    Mike
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 07-25-2017 at 03:57 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  2. #2
    FEP Member Dadsccat's Avatar
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    I have a 180 degree thermostat and it reads between the M and A when hot. Had a 160 degree thermostat before and it read roughly where yours does.
    Shawn


    Currently in the stable:
    83 Capri RS Crimson Cat
    90 7 UP Mustang
    87 Mustang GT
    83 Porsche 928S
    69 Thunderbird Landau
    65 Cadillac Calais 4DR Hardtop
    02 Thunderbird

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadsccat View Post
    I have a 180 degree thermostat and it reads between the M and A when hot. Had a 160 degree thermostat before and it read roughly where yours does.
    Oh, okay, maybe there is a 160-degree in it. I know it's functioning right, but that's no good for the cold we've got coming.
    ... and it might also be why I got and have two codes (41 and 91 ('86 3.8L, CFI, EEC-IV)) about being lean for no apparent reason...

    Thank you, Niagara Falls, lol
    Hello from London,
    Mike
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  4. #4
    FEP Member Dadsccat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    Oh, okay, maybe there is a 160-degree in it. I know it's functioning right, but that's no good for the cold we've got coming.
    ... and it might also be why I got and have two codes (41 and 91 ('86 3.8L, CFI, EEC-IV)) about being lean for no apparent reason...

    Thank you, Niagara Falls, lol
    Hello from London,
    Mike
    Hi Mike. Keep in mind the factory gauges are not too precise. You need to use higher quality gauges to really know the accurate temp.
    Shawn


    Currently in the stable:
    83 Capri RS Crimson Cat
    90 7 UP Mustang
    87 Mustang GT
    83 Porsche 928S
    69 Thunderbird Landau
    65 Cadillac Calais 4DR Hardtop
    02 Thunderbird

  5. #5

    Default Factory temperature gauge ?

    My gauge used to read where yours does. Never got above the N. Found out the previous owner had replaced the temp sending unit and wrapped the threads with Teflon tape. I replaced the sender and cleaned out all the Teflon tape and the gauge now works "normally".

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougTx View Post
    My gauge used to read where yours does. Never got above the N. Found out the previous owner had replaced the temp sending unit and wrapped the threads with Teflon tape. I replaced the sender and cleaned out all the Teflon tape and the gauge now works "normally".
    Just replaced the sending unit and put in a 180 stat this summer in my 85. It reads about where yours does. The sender came wrapped in Teflon tape, so I left it on. Maybe in the spring I will pull it out and remove the tape to see if there is any change.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadsccat View Post
    Hi Mike. Keep in mind the factory gauges are not too precise. You need to use higher quality gauges to really know the accurate temp.
    Oh yes, I know that, lol
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougTx View Post
    My gauge used to read where yours does. Never got above the N. Found out the previous owner had replaced the temp sending unit and wrapped the threads with Teflon tape. I replaced the sender and cleaned out all the Teflon tape and the gauge now works "normally".
    That's a good point, but my understanding of temperature sending units is that all electrical activity, power and grounding, is through their guts and the wiring, not the body threads and what they're threaded into. I guess the isolation with Teflon tape is an issue though if you got that change after removing it all. I'll keep this in mind, thank you.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by canpaul View Post
    Just replaced the sending unit and put in a 180 stat this summer in my 85. It reads about where yours does. The sender came wrapped in Teflon tape, so I left it on. Maybe in the spring I will pull it out and remove the tape to see if there is any change.
    Yes, it appears this may be an issue...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  10. #10

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    I had a 195 in mine, it read around the "R".

    I dropped it to a 180, it reads precisely where yours is. In fact, it will read cooler than that on the open road with my big aluminum RAD.

  11. #11

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    So, here's what I found tonight:
    - A 195-degree thermostat was in the car (I picked a new one up before heading to the car)
    - Coolant temperature sending unit wire hanging on by threads (cut off and open boot, soldered the end and shrink wrapped onto another length of wire)
    - Two other wires in the same loom, one for oil pressure
    - All three of these wires in the same loom were all baring with deteriorated insulation beside one another (now fixed, soldered, and shrink wrapped)
    - Teflon at the sending unit threads - now there's none











    After all of the above, the engine seems to be running hotter with the replacement thermostat, and the temperature gauge now gets up to between the O and the R of NORMAL. So, for now, I guess that's what it is and that's fine.

    Thanks everyone,
    Mike
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 07-25-2017 at 04:02 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  12. #12
    FEP Member Dadsccat's Avatar
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    Mike, I think as long as you know what your "normal" operating temp reads you should be ok. If the gauge gives an inconsistent reading then you need to address.
    Shawn


    Currently in the stable:
    83 Capri RS Crimson Cat
    90 7 UP Mustang
    87 Mustang GT
    83 Porsche 928S
    69 Thunderbird Landau
    65 Cadillac Calais 4DR Hardtop
    02 Thunderbird

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadsccat View Post
    Mike, I think as long as you know what your "normal" operating temp reads you should be ok. If the gauge gives an inconsistent reading then you need to address.
    That's true. Thank you.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  14. #14

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    Reviving this for the board's thoughts.

    I replaced my thermostat, sender, and rad cap over the winter.

    There was a 160 installed, and the gauge would only read up to "N" or between the "N" and "O" when fully hot.

    I replaced the thermostat with a Motorcraft 195/197 (presumably the stock temp) - and now the gauge reads between the "M" and "A" when warm. I had one instance where it rose up to to the beginning of the "L" while cruising on the highway which caused me to pull over out of an abundance of caution. It has not happened again, and the coolant in the overflow tank was right at the "full/hot" mark as expected.

    When I replaced the sender, it DID come wrapped with some teflon tape which I left. I also have a new 16# radiator cap.

    Which leads me to my questions...

    1. Should I pull the sender out and remove the teflon tape?
    2. Is there any information out there that says (approximately) what the temp values are? ie; R/M = 180 L=200 etc...?
    3. Am I being too anal with the factory gauge?
    4. Should I have gone with a 180 degree instead, assuming the gauge should read between the "R" and "M" while hot?

    Appreciate all of you in advance!
    1986 Mustang GT - 2A, 5 Sp
    2018 Subaru WRX (Daily)

  15. #15

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    Just my opinions.... and certainly not expert ones at that, but....

    1. No. The teflon tape shouldn't affect the reading. It's there to prevent coolant seepage around the threads. The sender isn't reading the metal temp.... it has a sensor that is making contact with the coolant itself. I believe the reason that the gauge starting reading correctly in post #5 is because he changed his sending unit, not that he removed the teflon tape. Heck, the sensor comes with the tape on it. They're not putting it on there just to have you remove it.

    2. Not that I am aware of.

    3. I don't think so, but....

    4. My choice would be a factory temperature thermostat, of which I've seen different temps listed in different places (190°, 192°, 195° and 197°). But I think those are all probably just minor variations (or approximations) of the same basic stat, vs a 160°, 170° or 180° stat.
    1985 Mustang GT (Mothballed...Desired restomod parts acquired...Top of my project list for my 2024 retirement!)

  16. #16
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Both my 2.3 truck and car read up to the N of NORMAL in our Mich weather. Motorcraft 192-195thermostats in both.
    This week, driven freeway and side streets, gauges hover a tick below or over the n end of the 'bracket' zone marking.
    The truck has a Autometer gauge. Reads in the low 190's when needle is at N.
    Factory gauge is fine for average temp monitoring. The Autometer reads coolant temp is real time.
    Tee'd the Autometer sensor into a heater hose in parallel with the factory EFI system sensor.
    Both engines have same in block gauge sensor.
    Car has five blade factory flex fan from a V6. Truck has stock white plastic with clutch. Both are belt driven.
    A/c not used anymore. Car never had it, truck does but is inop.
    Car is a turbo 2.3 has a V8 style radiator vs downflow. Truck has Super Cooling package also a crossflow type.
    Both have stock factory radiator caps, radiators have been replaced once. Mixed coolant close to 90/10.
    Overflow tanks stay pretty much at the same level year round.

    When i had the 85 LTD LX, the factory gauge always read much higher than the 2.3' s do.
    One warmed up, readings would always be mid to high end of n-o-r-m-a-l.

    Any sealant on sensor should be ok if that is the way they came.

    Truck went over 210 several times. Once was bad clutch fan, Once ft cab to frame mount broke, fan rubbed on shroud.
    Car has read past 1/2 too. A sudden freeze plug leak. Once the dealer did not refill radiator enough after collision repairs.
    Last edited by gr79; 06-01-2023 at 01:21 PM.

  17. #17

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    It sounds like the reading between the "M" and "A" should be OK with the 195 thermostat then? It doesn't go much higher than that regardless of the temp outside so far. It just plays mental tricks with me seeing the needle sit 3/4 of the way up.

    I have to keep reminding myself that the gauge isn't the most accurate thing in the world. Sure would help if there were some numbers or approximations for it instead of the ambiguous "NORMAL".


    85GTGuy - I kinda thought the same thing with the teflon tape, you've just confirmed what I assumed.


    Maybe it'd be worth picking up a laser thermometer from Amazon and hitting the upper radiator hose? I'd rather not tinker and install a separate gauge.
    1986 Mustang GT - 2A, 5 Sp
    2018 Subaru WRX (Daily)

  18. #18
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    I have a 9v Craftsman Hitemp infrared thermometer tool. Reads -58F to 1000F.
    Is handy around the house too checking all kinds of item temps, winter cold air draft leaks.


    Added note the gauge i have is 2 1/16" mechanical type. Factory is electric type.
    Have a three panel set where the Ranger's dash ashtray was. Fit perfectly. Water temp, vac, oil pressure.
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  19. #19
    FEP Member Hans's Avatar
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    With 195 stat, the gauge is at A to L when engine is warm.
    When it shoots up to the moon, my coolant is low again

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn CPH2219 met Tapatalk

  20. #20

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    Good to know Hans, thank you.

    Sounds like sitting at the end of "M" and beginning of "A" is where my 195/197 stat likes to live (and that's expected behavior).

    You and gr79 both said it rode about 3/4 of the way up, assuming stock.

    I have not had it "shoot to the moon" yet, so I'm assuming I'm good LOL.

    It's just weird to me that if it's indeed the factory temperature - Why does it ride so high? You'd think it should be dead in the middle? That's what prompted me to revive this dinosaur thread.


    My brain can't stop telling me "If it's not in the middle, it's too hot" when I look at it.
    Last edited by ITdude87; 06-02-2023 at 12:43 PM.
    1986 Mustang GT - 2A, 5 Sp
    2018 Subaru WRX (Daily)

  21. #21

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    Here's a quick photo for reference.

    The red needle is where it's usually at while at operating temp with a new 195/197 degree Motorcraft thermostat. Sometimes it's a just a hair higher, but this is where it likes to live 95+% of the time.

    The blue line is the absolute highest I've ever seen (only happened once after goosing around on the highway, fluke?)

    What do you guys think, normal? Livable? Swap it out with a 180 degree and then immediately sell the car?

    Last edited by ITdude87; 06-08-2023 at 01:47 PM.
    1986 Mustang GT - 2A, 5 Sp
    2018 Subaru WRX (Daily)

  22. #22
    FEP Member Hans's Avatar
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    Mine is in that area between the red and blue line always once warmed up .

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn CPH2219 met Tapatalk

  23. #23
    FEP Senior Member OX1's Avatar
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    Mine has been on the low end of normal for many years.
    I recently datalogged with a quarterhorse and the EEC temp sender said 218
    when I was done. Stock guage still was not right, between R and M.
    I don't think mine has been close to right for many years.
    86 Capri, 5.0, 5Spd, A9L QH/BE, 47 lb Inj PMAS 3" MAF, Single T44 Turbo, Front Mount IC, TW170,
    Stock Cam, Explr Intake/TB, 1.7 Rockers, CF dual friction clutch, 3" DP, 2.5" full Exh, 3.27, 11.932 @ 115.78
    84 LTD, 331-10:1, TW170/Exprl Intake, 47 lbs inj/80 mm LMAF, Full Duals, Quarterhorse, Vortech 7PSI, Lentech AOD, 5 lug Mk VII brakes/rear, Eibach Sway bars, Cobra HB (dads ride, but I fix it )

  24. #24

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    Cheers Hans, thank you for confirming!
    1986 Mustang GT - 2A, 5 Sp
    2018 Subaru WRX (Daily)

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by OX1 View Post
    I don't think mine has been close to right for many years.
    Roger that. I think I'm going to chalk it up to outdated 80's technology and just keep an eye on it. I don't have any other indications that it's running too hot other than the less-than-accurate factory gauge.

    Looks like you're running a bunch of mods as well so I'll take the 218 with a little asterisk too.
    1986 Mustang GT - 2A, 5 Sp
    2018 Subaru WRX (Daily)

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