1980 fairmont i6 runs poorly, no power

[Birdsflyingover]

Hi,

I recently purchased a 1980 fairmont with the 3.3. My plans are to put a 302 in it but in the mean time I coukd not resist tinkering with it.

The car sat for about 8 months (they say) after it was parked with a defective starter. Well, I replaced it after finding a new one and it turns over just fine but firing it is a bit tedious. I have to hold it at half throttle for a minute or two to coax it into a idle. And it seemingly runs smooth. But crack the throttle and it falls on its face and while I've read these are slow engines a bicycle coukd take this thing in a city block race.

So I rebuilt the carb....something new to me and come to find out that just means taking it apart and cleaning it. Much to my disappointment i didn't fine the jet plugged or accelerator plunger hardened. But i cleaned the hell out of it and put a new filter on it.

.....and same issue. No change at all. Changing the idle screw varies it between shaking violently to stalling but no where in between does it change the main concern. I took my hole saw bit and cut a hole upstream from the converter suspecting it would change but it did not.

I still feel like the manifold itself could have a restriction but that doesn't make sense to me. Yes it has the air injection stuff on it although it's probably been inop for years as the pump is seized and not connected. Could it be ignition? There is a vacuum line going to the dist. maybe that's connected to something mechanical stuck in the wrong position? Oh, plugs look fine. Has newer wires and cap.

Any by help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Walking-Tall]

My '66 Fairlane with 200-6 (3.3L) had what was called a spark valve on the carburetor, resembling a
power valve, or in Ford speak, an "economizer valve", which sent varying vacuum to the fully vacuum
"Load-O-Matic" distributor. I'm not certain if your carburetor is similar... but ultimately besides that, the
sounds of the problems you are describing (sounding like flooding) would lead me to suspect the power
valve... it's maybe one of the most important replacement parts within a rebuild kit... as well as the
needle and seat and float setting if it's acting flooded often...
Is there a stream of accelerator pump fuel when you crack the throttle?

[Birdsflyingover]

It does have that. At idle the vacuum holds the plunger up as intended BUT the thing is bent slightly. I thought it was odd but didn't question it too much because how something like that could become bent is a puzzle to me so I figured it was by design. Perhaps it's not contacting the needle.....

unsure about the visasble squirt of fuel....I will check. I was avoiding looking that close as I was fairly certain a backfire to the eyes was imminent.

[48fordnut]

It does not have to be running to check the accelerator pump

[Mike1157]

There are three areas to deal with when diagnosing a problem like what you are talking about.
Fuel,spark, and mechanical.
Firstly fuel: When you jab the throttle, the accelerator pump discharges an appropriate amount of extra gas to help compensate for the giant vacuum leak that you just created, If there is no gas discharged, there'll be a giant bog, cough, stumble, or it'll just die. if you are comfortable w/ your rebuild of the carburetor and you replaced what was in the kit to replace, adjusted the float as per the instructions, and are sure that the pump discharge path was clean, then you should see gas squirt into the carb when the throttle is opened. If you're afraid you're gonna get a fireball in the face, do it with the engine off. If gas is squirted when you operate the throttle, you've just eliminated one issue.

The one bbl carb on the engine is weak sauce in the first place, you wont get instant, johnny lightning throttle response, but you shouldn't get a "gasp then die" either.

If you can get the engine to idle, and you've witnessed fuel from the accelerator pump then at least part of the problem isn't carb related. Does the thing idle smoothly when you put it in gear w/ your foot on the brake?

Part two would be to determine how rough the engine runs from "off idle" to "under load" as in after you put it in gear. if it goes from tolerable idling in park to a lumpy idle in drive, you can look elsewhere other than the carb.

Wires, plugs, cap, are all culprits from an engine as old as this one. If one cylinder is misfiring on that turd of an engine, it wouldn't run worth a crap (not that it runs any better when all six are working properly) open the hood with the engine running in the dark, and see if you have a lightning storm going on. Old assed plug wires can arc to ground, and the more you load the engine, the more likely that spark finds a path other than through the plug to travel.

Lastly is mechanical. Bad valve, low (er) compression, worn out timing chain would all cause the thing to run like junk. Again, dead cylinders are always dead, They would cause the engin to shake mildly at idle, and like it was having a seizure in gear. A compression test will reveal alot about all three of the above, as you are comparing all 6 cylinders against each other.

[Birdsflyingover]

Ok, I appreciate the info!

I had a few minutes to check the car out tonight.

1 the accelotaor pump is working

2 the power valve despite being bent appears to be doing its job.

3 I removed the egr valve and found it hung open......seems to me that would mess with the air/fuel...I'll try to make a block off plate tomorrow and see what happens!

[Walking-Tall]

Ok, I appreciate the info!

I had a few minutes to check the car out tonight.

1 the accelotaor pump is working

2 the power valve despite being bent appears to be doing its job.

3 I removed the egr valve and found it hung open......seems to me that would mess with the air/fuel...I'll try to make a block off plate tomorrow and see what happens!

You did not put a rebuild kit in the carburetor but cleaned it, right?
Re-reading your initial post, a low float bowl fuel level could cause those symptoms, which
could be a too-low float setting or a weak fuel pump as well...
Yep, EGR hangin' open full-time is an issue. Not certain it's your biggest issue, but maybe.

[Birdsflyingover]

I did use a rebuild kit but did not seem to include anything of consequence nor did the carb seem to require anything. It appears to only purpose of the kit was to provide gaskets that would be damaged during disassembly for cleaning. The accelotaor plunger was fine to begin with. But a new fuel inlet valve was nice to have and that was in the kit.

I I did not adjust the floats.....didn't know that was a thing, ooops.

Upon further inspection the egr is NOT open :/

it just seems like this engine isn't able to breathe....obviously there is no tach but I'd bet this thing isn't reving over 2500 rpms with my foot to the floor. I suppose it's very likely still a fuel issue.

[ZephyrEFI]

Sorry, I lolled when I read the title of this thread the first time. Yep, that's the old wheezy 3.3 boat anchor for you! I'd move up the time table on your V8 swap...

[Walking-Tall]

Kits usually come with instructions. I'd check those over again.
Yes, the upper level the float sits at (adjustable by bending the tang that rests against the needle and seat), when there's fuel in the float bowl, and the tang of the float that sits on the "fuel inlet valve" needle and seat has pressed the needle and seat closed, is what dictates how much fuel is in the float bowl, which ultimately and importantly dictates how the carburetor functions properly or doesn't... I wouldn't rod on 'er too much with these apparently lean fueling symptoms, or the tinkering with the six could come to a clattering and abrupt end, and then, yeah, you will be bumping up the V8 swap, lol

[Monty78]

Does it still have a catalytic converter?
If so it could be plugged.

[xctasy]

The 200 Fox/S shell and Granada/X shell 250 sixes cut the switch that other family members beat it with. And it deserved it!

The latent smog 2.8 3.8, 4.2 engines were stalwart performers in comparison, especally when fuel consumption was bought into the mix. How can any engine, like the 104 HP 2.8 V6, 17 % smaller make as almost as much power as the engines 35 to 50% bigger?. And 22% more than the 1980 3.3.

The 1980 T code 3.3/200 and the similar 1980 C code 4.1/250 were 85 and 99 hp door stops. With just five modifications, They can make 50% more power.

That year, Australian 3.3's and 4.1's made 112 and 126 hp respectively, and the 4.1 126 hp automatic 3460 pound Fairlane was called slow when it couldn't do a 19.2 second quarter mile or pass the 100 mph mark flat out.


Quite a number of things to check. I'm betting money the kickdown rod is jamming up the Holley 1946 1-bbl carb, so it won't take full throttle. The 3.3 can rev to 5500 rpm easily, so if you think its ony doing 3500 rpm, then that's your problem. A full sweep from the throttle should give 80 degress of carb throttle movement.Pop the air cleaner when the engine is warm, and see that the throttle is making a full sweep.


The rod operated kicdown has a funny musroom footstool on it, and if someone has been dabling with that, you can loose 60% of yor throttle movement, and loose your kickdown passing gear. Without that, an 85 hp 1980 3.3 wont even do a 25 second quarter mile, let alone the 20 seconds they took between the 1320 feet lines.

All 1980 model year onwards 200 's and 250's ran the haliarious football primary light off catalyst. It might be plugged if the car has ever been constantly missfueled with avgas or leaded. Much is made of these being a fire source and unreliable, but they are actullay excellent, and do a fine job of mopping up monoxides.

There are three ways to check it.

First is the dissasembly check. This requires in some cases the right service tools for removing the tin heat sheild around the primary cat. Sometimes, the car is a high altitude or CA model which has secondary AIR with multiple entry, and it requires a really good pitched removal tool to clear the coiled up EGR line. Others have a more simple set up without AIR stuff and one less line to the catalyst. They make crow's foot sockets specifically for that kind of stuff, or by a Wall of China Mart end wrench in the size required and bend it some with a sledge hammer to make a homemade "crowsfoot".http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/g...ml#post3968941

Either way, you have to bath the bolts in PB Blaster, CRC or WD40 in order to drop the header pipe and primary cat as one unit. Once you have unbolted the four exhaust bolts, and somehow lower it enough, you'll be able to see if the ceramic honeycomb is still in its "at birth" brick state. All 1980's are high mount starter, so that gets in the way too. Its doable, and you'll be able to see first hand. See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-spec-Bcode-I6

The second, and easier option is to have a 1/8" back pressure gauge line put in to the header pipe below the primary and secondary catalyst. This involves having an exhaust specialist braise in two tube into the pipes after each cat.



Back pressure at wide open throttle shouldn't ever exceed 6 psi at 3500 rpm, 3psi to be sure. If it does, you need to get either a good old cat, or new CatCo front cat.

https://www.catalyticconvertersonlin...er-pc-2-112764

If it restricted at the rear cat, perhaps the US item the Aussies use behind there 165 to 215 hp 4 liter EA-XH Falcon's, the Magnaflow USA 200 cell per square inch metallic substrate core (for maximum power and least restriction 2.5" inlet and outlet).


The third way of checking it is to dyno it with a pre I/M ( Inspection/Maintenace) check. If its not making 55 rear wheel hp, then its kickdown, carb or cat.