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  1. #1
    FEP Member eight666lx's Avatar
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    Default Shopping for new heads/intake begins! Please lend any experience and valuable info.

    some of you may have seen my post yesterday about coolant leaking and whether or not i will be doing my first head-job.

    I have decided to start looking around for gt40 heads and a matching intake. I've read quite a few threads about this but none have been able to answer all of my questions. if i'm wasting a thread, moderators, please kindly refer me to the right info so i dont continue to do so.

    i am looking to spend the least possible money, and i have absolutely NO experience below the valve covers. so ease is a factor too.

    I have a guy i'm talking to with an entire mountaineer engine from '99. my research so far has led me to believe this is compatible. that they are gt40, not gt40p and there is only a slight CFM difference btwn the two so gt40 will be preferred rather that gt40(i read something about egr difference where mods might be needed)

    will the heads bolt right in? or is there modification necessary?

    I have stock exhaust headers, but with flowmaster pipes behind them (not my idea, car came like that. if the guy did all the exhaust work, he couldnt have found a cheap pair of aftermarkets?!)
    will these bolt up or do i need new headers?

    will all other components be compatible? vac stuff, wiring, gauges, etc. ?

    car is an 86 efi 5.0 HO no real mods to speak of except a 3g alt. and replaced the radiator with a 2 row from a v6 last summer.

    i know there are a million posts on this topic but i cant seem to find what i'm looking for. if anyone knows of old threads where these questions are answered, please post a link.

    thanks in advance

    rick

  2. #2
    FEP Senior Member rob342's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eight666lx View Post
    i have absolutely NO experience below the valve covers
    thanks in advance

    rick
    i recommend you buy this book. it was an excellent reference when i did my first build. every other book i bought sucked.
    http://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Sm.../dp/0912656891

    if you shop elsewhere, make sure it looks the same and was written by Tom Monroe. There are several similarly titled books that i found useless.

    preview: https://books.google.com/books?id=Al...monroe&f=false
    i have a 1992 GT, 4.10, 5spd.

  3. #3
    FEP Senior Member 86ragtop's Avatar
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    Hey Rick,how's it going .I have a gt40p setup with explorer intake but I used a crate short block with valve reliefs in the pistons due to the fact that my original had over 200,000 miles.You might have piston to valve clearance issues with any kind of head exept for trick flow twisted wedge heads on the 86 short block with flat top pistons.Any one can correct me if I'm wrong.If you can afford it see if you can locate some used trick flows if you don't plan on replacing your engine.Good luck.
    Last edited by 86ragtop; 07-27-2015 at 08:02 PM.
    Nick. 86 vert GT,p-heads trick flow springs,explorer intake,off road H,super 44's,still speed density

  4. #4
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    For ease of bolt up, the gt40's will work better with your stock exhaust manifolds. If you do a forum search for gt40 head swaps, several good threads should pop up. There are a few minor issues to deal with, but nothing significant. I will look for a good one, and bump it, since i have no idea how to post a link! Might not be until tomorrow.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  5. #5

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    Get the whole engine from the Mountaineer. Add you cam, upgrade the valve springs in the GT-40 heads, drop it in your car. Heads match pistons, with room for a different cam or 1.7 ratio rockers in the future.

    Jess
    Previously owned;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member Travis T's Avatar
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    If you're looking at a 1999 engine, it has P heads. That change happened part way through 1997.
    1984 Mustang GT owned since 1991 (first car). Mercury Mountaineer GT-40P engine, some suspension mods, currently undergoing a five lug SN95 brake upgrade and more suspension mods. Some minor body and interior mods have been done as well.

    2004 GT convertible, 2001 Taurus LX, 1994 F150, 1950 F-1 Ford Pickup

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member Travis T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang-junky View Post
    Get the whole engine from the Mountaineer. Add you cam, upgrade the valve springs in the GT-40 heads, drop it in your car. Heads match pistons, with room for a different cam or 1.7 ratio rockers in the future.

    Jess

    That's what I did minus the rockers. Good advice.
    1984 Mustang GT owned since 1991 (first car). Mercury Mountaineer GT-40P engine, some suspension mods, currently undergoing a five lug SN95 brake upgrade and more suspension mods. Some minor body and interior mods have been done as well.

    2004 GT convertible, 2001 Taurus LX, 1994 F150, 1950 F-1 Ford Pickup

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang-junky View Post
    Get the whole engine from the Mountaineer. Add you cam, upgrade the valve springs in the GT-40 heads, drop it in your car. Heads match pistons, with room for a different cam or 1.7 ratio rockers in the future.

    Jess
    Yeah, this.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang-junky View Post
    Get the whole engine from the Mountaineer. Add you cam, upgrade the valve springs in the GT-40 heads, drop it in your car. Heads match pistons, with room for a different cam or 1.7 ratio rockers in the future.

    Jess

    I'm with Jess, take the whole lot. There are a huge range of 1999-2002 non ODBII EECV Aussie computers for the US GT40P which works real good for 235 to 300 hp level, so you don't have to rewire the whole thing to all the akward OBDII stuff. Of all 104 pins, up to 30 may be unused, similar to the 1996-2001 Explorer pinout occupancy.

    You can stay with EECIV Speed Density and fit a MAF conversion kit. Using EDIS8 is a great idea, Megajolt can run it, so can some versions of EECIV. All depends how high hp you plan to go. The GT40P heads are much cleaner running. The 86 block has a limitation that is best avoided by wrapping it up and refitting it when or if you sell it. They have piston clearance issues with the better cams, although they can be breathed on. Sportsman Racing Products pistons with a nice 13 cc dish and some AFR's would be awesome.


    Always look at what results the GT40P can give...(despite a reputation for appalling lapses in build quality due to bore distortion sometimes forcing the total replacement of some of these V8 engines), they are nothing short of stunning for what are junk yard heads found on junkyard engines in SUVs that no-one wants to be seen in any longer.

    14 year old junkers are the rolling average 'sweetspot' for any engine rebuild, the Montaineer and Exploder 5.0 with fourbar heads are it.

    My Aussie mate said it best in this post...

    GT40P's vs E7's
    Explorer intake vs HO intake
    65mm TB vs 58mm TB
    70mm MAF vs 55mm MAF (thats a bit more than "slightly" bigger..lol)
    24lb/hr injectors vs 19lb/hr injectors
    reasonable 4-1 shorty headers vs tiny nasty crimped 4-1 headers
    EDIS vs TFI dissy
    The GT40P "Explorer"-spec FBT Windsor is a significantly better spec engine than the older "HO" spec Windsor, even one with forged pistons. The piston technolgy has moved on to reducing reciprocation weight and looking after the cylinder bores, modern non forged pistons are okay to use if the computer is up to it. .


    As for potential. well...IIRC, your engines were only rated at 215 in your SUV's, but everything GT40P was 235 hp capable and had coil packs and the opposite side 'Mexican' intake upper and intake manifold, which is what the Explorer 4 bar engines gave as a minimum in our US engined Falcons, but then there were six strenghts of mixture to +13, +33, +60, +100 hp levels, all absolutely stock (but plateau honed in the last three versions from 268 hp on)

    Upgrade 1 =248 with a 305 lb-ft with just roller rockers, tuned length extractors and exhaust upgrade

    Then these US engines then got rebuilt as Synergy engines by Tickford/Prodrive engineers in Australia, with a handbuilt plate as per Aston Martin practice.
    Upgrade 2= 268 with 310 lb-ftnew cam
    Upgrade 3= 295 hp with 321 lb-ft (different cam, Yella terra roller rockers, slightly better headers not as pinched as the earlier ones, a much larger throttle body and no EGR, the ECU has been retuned slightly )
    Upgrade 4= a factory Mahale hyper piston, Argo conrod, Precision Rebuilds cast nodular iron 3.4" stoke 50oz unbalance crank 342 stroker with 335hp and 369 lb-ft.

    Going GT40P is a 20 to 50 hp boost with the right parts as above, but as much as 115 hp up on a stock GT HO spec engine.

    The nominal 200 to 225 hp MAF injected 5.0 from a 1986 to 1993 will suddenly become a 300 hp, 320 lb-ft engine with the proper GT40P headers, bigger throttle body, GT40P intake and engine mapping, and the XR8 Rebel or Tickford T1/2/3 cam, an E303 knockoff. From 1999 to late 2002, the Aussies stuck with mild reworks of the GT40P iron heads, and they even supported stroker engines making 335 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque, 82 mm throttle bodies, 1.7:1 roller rockers. And varitions on that E303 cam. Power ratings above that are best taken care of with lighter hi silicon cast alloy pistons, but block splitting has been taken care of by the aftermarket. Main And Upper Support is a good idea.

    The GT40P is by far the best option. Some SRP pistons, N upper of the limit rebuild, some block support (lower and upper valley girdles) and you will have one of the best bases money can buy.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    I'm with Jess, take the whole lot. There are a huge range of 1999-2002 non ODBII EECV Aussie computers for the US GT40P which works real good for 235 to 300 hp level, so you don't have to rewire the whole thing to all the akward OBDII stuff. Of all 104 pins, up to 30 may be unused, similar to the 1996-2001 Explorer pinout occupancy.

    You can stay with EECIV Speed Density and fit a MAF conversion kit. Using EDIS8 is a great idea, Megajolt can run it, so can some versions of EECIV. All depends how high hp you plan to go. The GT40P heads are much cleaner running. The 86 block has a limitation that is best avoided by wrapping it up and refitting it when or if you sell it. They have piston clearance issues with the better cams, although they can be breathed on. Sportsman Racing Products pistons with a nice 13 cc dish and some AFR's would be awesome.


    Always look at what results the GT40P can give...(despite a reputation for appalling lapses in build quality due to bore distortion sometimes forcing the total replacement of some of these V8 engines), they are nothing short of stunning for what are junk yard heads found on junkyard engines in SUVs that no-one wants to be seen in any longer.

    14 year old junkers are the rolling average 'sweetspot' for any engine rebuild, the Montaineer and Exploder 5.0 with fourbar heads are it.

    My Aussie mate said it best in this post...



    The GT40P "Explorer"-spec FBT Windsor is a significantly better spec engine than the older "HO" spec Windsor, even one with forged pistons. The piston technolgy has moved on to reducing reciprocation weight and looking after the cylinder bores, modern non forged pistons are okay to use if the computer is up to it. .


    As for potential. well...IIRC, your engines were only rated at 215 in your SUV's, but everything GT40P was 235 hp capable and had coil packs and the opposite side 'Mexican' intake upper and intake manifold, which is what the Explorer 4 bar engines gave as a minimum in our US engined Falcons, but then there were six strenghts of mixture to +13, +33, +60, +100 hp levels, all absolutely stock (but plateau honed in the last three versions from 268 hp on)

    Upgrade 1 =248 with a 305 lb-ft with just roller rockers, tuned length extractors and exhaust upgrade

    Then these US engines then got rebuilt as Synergy engines by Tickford/Prodrive engineers in Australia, with a handbuilt plate as per Aston Martin practice.
    Upgrade 2= 268 with 310 lb-ftnew cam
    Upgrade 3= 295 hp with 321 lb-ft (different cam, Yella terra roller rockers, slightly better headers not as pinched as the earlier ones, a much larger throttle body and no EGR, the ECU has been retuned slightly )
    Upgrade 4= a factory Mahale hyper piston, Argo conrod, Precision Rebuilds cast nodular iron 3.4" stoke 50oz unbalance crank 342 stroker with 335hp and 369 lb-ft.

    Going GT40P is a 20 to 50 hp boost with the right parts as above, but as much as 115 hp up on a stock GT HO spec engine.

    The nominal 200 to 225 hp MAF injected 5.0 from a 1986 to 1993 will suddenly become a 300 hp, 320 lb-ft engine with the proper GT40P headers, bigger throttle body, GT40P intake and engine mapping, and the XR8 Rebel or Tickford T1/2/3 cam, an E303 knockoff. From 1999 to late 2002, the Aussies stuck with mild reworks of the GT40P iron heads, and they even supported stroker engines making 335 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque, 82 mm throttle bodies, 1.7:1 roller rockers. And varitions on that E303 cam. Power ratings above that are best taken care of with lighter hi silicon cast alloy pistons, but block splitting has been taken care of by the aftermarket. Main And Upper Support is a good idea.

    The GT40P is by far the best option. Some SRP pistons, N upper of the limit rebuild, some block support (lower and upper valley girdles) and you will have one of the best bases money can buy.
    Wow, lotsa stuff I didn't know there!
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  11. #11
    FEP Member eight666lx's Avatar
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    wow so many great replies! thanks everyone for the time and effort.

    Nick, i lost your number but i was hoping you'd turn up! i know you did this sort of swap, an ran into that piston to calve clearance issue. twisted wedge edelbrock heads? i cant imagine i'd find those in my price range (or any aftermarket stuff for that matter)
    xctasy, thank you for such an elaboration! really interesting to see how U.S. stuff gets used and reused overseas. and everything you and your aussie mate said makes sense just upon the basic math. its all becoming quite clear to me.

    anyway, i'm excited to swap my first engine, but i think i'll put a week or two into research because i want to do it well, not cut any corners, and not make any stupid mistakes. which means i'll have to drive the firebird for the time being, yeah i know

    the book Rob342 suggested is awessome! i got to read about 7 pages and it seems like the most definitive guide one could find for this project with our cars. so i have a pending offer for a 99 mountaineer, and just this morning a guy i know got back to me about a complete running 94 cobra engine, with 62k on it. i'd have to find my own intake but from valve covers to oil pan for $600. i bet if i wait, i'll find something better though.

    so its pretty much a waste to try keeping the car speed density? if so thats another bill to add on even with a cheap conversion kit. Not to say i couldnt stay speed density, but with the gt40p set up that would be a factor in how much hp i can build via dictating what intakes i'm capable of using ... i think. and when Jess said "your" cam, i'm guessing he wasnt talking about the one in the car now...?


    I have a lot to read. i'm overwhelmed by the amount of support i'm getting, thanks alot guys.

    rick

  12. #12
    FEP Member eight666lx's Avatar
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    i meant to say "trick flow twisted wedge" and those sure seem awesome, lowest price google can find so far is $1100. i wish i could just toss money at these things and do so much less work. not having to change the springs, or swap the entire block. one day things will be that way for me, after the student loans are paid off

  13. #13
    FEP Super Member Travis T's Avatar
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    He was referring to the cam in your current engine probably. The Explorer cam is a truck cam.

    That Cobra engine sounds like a good deal to me. You wouldn't have to change cams, it already has the correct oil pan and GT40 heads to boot.
    1984 Mustang GT owned since 1991 (first car). Mercury Mountaineer GT-40P engine, some suspension mods, currently undergoing a five lug SN95 brake upgrade and more suspension mods. Some minor body and interior mods have been done as well.

    2004 GT convertible, 2001 Taurus LX, 1994 F150, 1950 F-1 Ford Pickup

  14. #14
    FEP Senior Member 86ragtop's Avatar
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    Did the 94 cobras have 1.7 roller rockers like the 93's,that would really be a great deal.Probably still keep it speed density.
    Nick. 86 vert GT,p-heads trick flow springs,explorer intake,off road H,super 44's,still speed density

  15. #15
    FEP Member eight666lx's Avatar
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    yeah. i have a guy coming to my place tonight to buy the trunk lid, back bumper and possibly the front end off my parts car. hopefully he doesnt flake. i would really love something so complete. i'm pretty sure i just need the computer/ wiring harness and mass air kit if the cobra engine works out. unless i'm forgetting something. 86 is the only year with the flat pistons im pretty sure. i just pulled a page saying those might actually be better in certain applications. i'm glad i have the day off to research, i'm on a roll with good and useful info so far!

  16. #16
    FEP Member eight666lx's Avatar
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    hey Nick, this is off topic but did you ever find a good pair of interior quarter panels? I've been keeping my eyes out for anything decent but the all sorta look like the ones i offered you lol

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by eight666lx View Post
    when Jess said "your" cam, i'm guessing he wasnt talking about the one in the car now...?


    I have a lot to read. i'm overwhelmed by the amount of support i'm getting, thanks alot guys.

    rick
    Stick with the factory '86 cam, maybe add a set of 1.7 roller rockers. That with the Mountaineer longblock(and intake) you should be good to go. The factory cam will probably allow you to stick with your factory speed density computer. Raising the fuel pressure a few pounds via an adjustable fuel pressure regulator should be enough to keep the car from running lean. A little bit of tweeking with the initial timing and I think you'll be good to go.

    Changing the cam to something with more duration is what really screws up a factory speed density system. Keep the stock '86 mustang cam with a upgraded longblock.

    Jess
    Previously owned;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  18. #18
    FEP Senior Member 86ragtop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eight666lx View Post
    hey Nick, this is off topic but did you ever find a good pair of interior quarter panels? I've been keeping my eyes out for anything decent but the all sorta look like the ones i offered you lol
    nah,pretty much given up on finding them.thinking about repairing mine or getting the one that LMR sells when funds permit.
    Nick. 86 vert GT,p-heads trick flow springs,explorer intake,off road H,super 44's,still speed density

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