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  1. #1

    Default Finally, sticky summer performance tires for my 10 holes (225 60 VR15)

    (what I really wanted to title this thread - bad a$$ tires for my ten holes)

    My search for a very high performance summer tire in 225 60 15 has finally ended. One or two of you may have recalled this post:
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?150740

    where I suggested we stage a call in/write in campaign to encourage Dunlop to continue production of the G Force Sport in our size, possibly in the Comp 2 compound. Not much response, and reviews on the internet suggest that tire was poor in the rain and not that great in the dry. I even skipped a chance to by some NOS ones about a year and a half ago.

    Why the intense search? Simply put, tires are the most critical safety system on these old cars. Imagine getting on the highway in your four eye, suddenly there's a pop up rain shower, and the inevitable happens and the cars all around you are braking as hard as they can. And well over half those cars have modern, sophisticated ABS systems, that bias braking forces to the rear much more than our old cars do. And there you or I would be, trying to haul down 3000 pounds plus of fox on outdated all season tires, possibly made in some country you would have a hard time picking out on a globe. These tires have hard rubber "high mileage" compounds (UTQG 400-600) that limit their dry and wet grip, and are often made soley with the intent of minimizing their manufacturing cost.

    As I am about to restore my old Fox, it seemed like I would either have to abandon the 15 inch wheel size in favor of a larger diameter with more tire options, or go to a 205-65-15 size at best (Nokian V is an option there). These old chassis are lose enough without adding a 17 inch rim/short sidewall tire IMHO.

    Turns out there is another group that wants sticky tires for small diameter wheels, the DeLorean crowd, and I am indebted to NightFlyer there for researching all the 14 and 15 options left on the plant, and especially for IDing the Vredestein option (see first link below). The reviews on the Vredestein Sportrac 5 (all in Europe) are stellar, this is a Netherlands manufactured, summer performance tire sold extensively in Europe. From the reviews it will work in a pinch in light snow but that is not its intent. They are imported in a limited amount into the U.S., where DOT ratings are Traction A, Temperature A with a treadwear of 300 (this data is not easy to find). Well over 80% who own the tire would buy the tire again, tires designed by Giugiaro (designer for Ferrari), top 5 summer tyre for 2015, etc. While most of the higher sidewall versions of this tire are H speed rated, in 225-60 15 they are V speed rated.

    http://www.dmctoday.com/showthread.p...s-or-Fronts%29

    http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Vr...Sportrac-5.htm

    So in April when my LTD LX came out of its heated winter storage I called up the Vredestein U.S. sales office in NJ and asked if there were any in stock (there were four the previous summer). They told me they were out of stock, but that they could be ordered and a new run would be made over in Netherlands. They had to be ordered through a distributor, I worked with Ed at Group A wheels in the northeast (there is also one in California, tireseasy or something).

    It took about 6 weeks but finally in early June they arrived,. In my case they replaced half worn, but aged Dunlop Sport 5000s (UTQG 340), which at the time (eight or so years ago) were the highest performance tires available. Even when new, in the rain, when starting out around a corner, my LX AOD would grab second gear and the back tires would wash out. Also, the W speed rated sidewall was quite stiff, great for cornering stability but not great for ride quality.

    The first pair went on the rear, and I immediately noticed a significant improvement in ride quality especially on southern New England's pot holed back roads. The other thing I noticed was that it was hard to spin these tires, even in the rain (something it was easy to do with from a standing start with the old 5000s). When I got all four on the combination of ride quality and cornering capability were outstanding. Have yet to reach their limit in the dry, but they feel a lot like the Continental DW summer tires I have on a similar weight sedan. It now requires full force on the brake pedal to get the front wheels to lock in the dry, and stopping distances in both wet and dry are way better than the several year old SP5000s.

    Overall, I am very impressed with these tires. There is an internet rumor that Vredestein was considering making a few runs on 235-60-15 at the request of some Lotus owners (stock rear size on early Esprit). So maybe an additional option for the rear of a Fox. Finally, Vredestein has a UTOG 220 compound that they use on the Ultrac Sessanta model 17+ diameters only), be neat if they took that rubber compound combined with the 225-60-V15 carcass and mold to make some even stickier tires for us.

    Disclaimer - I have no financial interest whatsoever in Vredestein or Group A, just grateful that a modern sticky summer tire with a comfortable ride is available.

    zak
    Last edited by zak; 04-20-2017 at 02:30 PM.
    1985 LTD LX original owner

  2. #2

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    One other thing I forgot to mention, when my tire guy mounted them for me he remarked how little weight they took to balance.
    1985 LTD LX original owner

  3. #3
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Good to hear. I have a nice set of 15" Enkie mesh rims, that i can't use because the tire selection is so poor. This would make them a viable option.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  4. #4
    FEP Power Member smitty54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianj View Post
    Good to hear. I have a nice set of 15" Enkie mesh rims, that i can't use because the tire selection is so poor. This would make them a viable option.
    I'm using Falken ZE-912 225/60/15 with my Enkei mesh wheels and they perform just fine.
    http://tireswheelsdirect.com/product...113&ts_id=2053
    "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac."
    George Carlin, Rest in peace

    Rick
    84 GT Convertible
    68 Cougar XR7
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  5. #5

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    Couple of websites are reporting the Falken ZE-912 (UTQG 480-A-A) is discontinued.

    M&S tires are great for what they are, but a dedicated summer tire will always outperform them except in the winter/cold temps.
    1985 LTD LX original owner

  6. #6
    FEP Power Member smitty54's Avatar
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    Last edited by smitty54; 07-26-2015 at 02:47 PM.
    "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac."
    George Carlin, Rest in peace

    Rick
    84 GT Convertible
    68 Cougar XR7
    14 Ford Explorer Limited

  7. #7
    FEP Power Member qtrracer's Avatar
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    If you must run 60s the widths are a little limited. But if can do a 50, then 205/50/15 (Dunlap Star Spec ZIIs, Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R)s. If you can go down to a 45, you can get a 225/45/15 (BFG Rival S). These are 200 TW tires and are plenty sticky.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by qtrracer View Post
    If you must run 60s the widths are a little limited. But if can do a 50, then 205/50/15 (Dunlap Star Spec ZIIs, Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R)s. If you can go down to a 45, you can get a 225/45/15 (BFG Rival S). These are 200 TW tires and are plenty sticky.
    These aren't tires, they are o-rings ;-) Honestly though, great for a Miata sized car but not a FOX, IMHO.
    1985 LTD LX original owner

  9. #9
    FEP Power Member qtrracer's Avatar
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    Yeah, performance rubber tends to be short in the side wall; helps to prevent the tire from rolling over in turns. Using the sidewall for traction is hardly optimal. On a serious note, a 225/45/15 on a 7" wheel will provide a lot of grip in the corners. Not 315/325 grip but pretty good on a stock suspension car.

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member mustangxtreme's Avatar
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    falken ze-912 225/60/15
    x2^^^
    Dave

    If common sense was common wouldn't it just be sense?

    1983 Capri L T top 5.0 efi aod
    1983 Capri RS Turbo
    1981 Black Magic 400 c6
    93 F-250 351 5sp 4x4

  11. #11

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    Hello all. I am new to the group and just picked up an '86 GT with 21k miles. Very original and untouched car. Being a newbie, I figured I'd look for the stock tires to stick to the all original theme. I don't really want to do any 5-lug conversions. Only place I could find them was here...

    http://www.lucasclassictires.com/225...Gyr2256015.htm

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMG-86GT View Post
    Hello all. I am new to the group and just picked up an '86 GT with 21k miles. Very original and untouched car. Being a newbie, I figured I'd look for the stock tires to stick to the all original theme. I don't really want to do any 5-lug conversions. Only place I could find them was here...

    http://www.lucasclassictires.com/225...Gyr2256015.htm
    OUCH! $305 each! LOL!

    BTW....Welcome to FEP!
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMG-86GT View Post
    Hello all. I am new to the group and just picked up an '86 GT with 21k miles. Very original and untouched car. Being a newbie, I figured I'd look for the stock tires to stick to the all original theme. I don't really want to do any 5-lug conversions. Only place I could find them was here...

    http://www.lucasclassictires.com/225...Gyr2256015.htm
    Unless you are going to show the car in a Concours class I would recommend the Vredesteins (assuming you won't be driving that low mileage wonder in winter). Others that imply an all season tire with a 480 (e.g. Falken now Ohatsu) or 620 UTQG treadwear (e.g. Cooper CS5) perform as well in summertime are sadly mistaken.

    Do NOT drive on 30 year old tires, they could have a blow out at any time.
    1985 LTD LX original owner

  14. #14
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    Here is a link to a website that claims to offer these tires in case someone is interested and don't want to have to go through the effort of trying to figure out where to find them.

    http://www.tiresbyweb.com/tbw_tirese...nufacturer=All
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by 84StangSVT View Post
    OUCH! $305 each! LOL!

    BTW....Welcome to FEP!
    Yea. A little pricey.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by zak View Post
    Unless you are going to show the car in a Concours class I would recommend the Vredesteins (assuming you won't be driving that low mileage wonder in winter). Others that imply an all season tire with a 480 (e.g. Falken now Ohatsu) or 620 UTQG treadwear (e.g. Cooper CS5) perform as well in summertime are sadly mistaken.

    Do NOT drive on 30 year old tires, they could have a blow out at any time.
    Still looking and learning a lot. But I am thinking about the Concourse level. It need some maintenance items but it's because everything is from '86. I just took out the original battery (and kept it).

    And yea, she rides pretty rough with those tires. I had it shipped here and only took it around the block. You can see the warning tread markings in the tires. Not driving it again until tire decision. Most likely the pricey ones. Been wanting to jump in the hobby for a while so I'm aiming high for now.

    Thank you all for the info. Been reading through the posts for about a while now and I'm glad to finally be a part of this community.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by 84StangSVT View Post
    Here is a link to a website that claims to offer these tires in case someone is interested and don't want to have to go through the effort of trying to figure out where to find them.

    http://www.tiresbyweb.com/tbw_tirese...nufacturer=All
    TiresByWeb can be on the expensive side, although for Nokians I've used them in the past and gotten a good deal.

    Here are a couple of sources for Sportrac 5, first one is the one I've used:
    http://www.groupawheels.com/Vredeste...rac-5_c683.htm
    http://www.tires-easy.com/tire/vrede...portrac-5.html

    I suspect this thread may have caused the U.S. stock of these to sell out, suggest calling either of the above directly to ask about availability.
    1985 LTD LX original owner

  18. #18
    FEP Senior Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    I don't know how recent a development this is, but I just noticed that Tire Rack is a Vredestein dealer. They only have 1 size listed for the Sportrac 5 (a 14" tire), but presumably they could get others.

  19. #19
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    I've had over 50 different pairs of tires on my daily abused (driven) 86GT.

    At one time I had a lot of luck with Viper TR and Firestone Indy 500's. All in 235/60/15.

    These days the best option my son and I have found is the Cooper Cobra GT. They have marginally less traction than the Firestone Indy 500's have but with the indy's I was knocking out T5 input shafts.

    The short sidewall that comes with very low profile tires on large rims hugely aggregates the snap steer tendency of foxbody suspension. Even speed rated tires makes it vastly worse. Not recommended without snap correction via watts or panhard.

    An adjustable proportioning valve can allow dialing brake bias towards the rear. Will work best with rear disc conversion and master cyl updates.
    Last edited by erratic50; 04-18-2017 at 11:02 AM.

  20. #20

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    I had Cooper cobra gt's in a 235/60 up front and a 275/60 in the rear. I was supposed to get 275/50's but they only had one.

    I liked the tires, they lasted about 40k miles up front with some alignment problems. The tears I had for about 60k miles. I destroyed 6 motor mounts with a stock 150hp s.o. motor and an open 2.73 diff. Dumping the clutch at about 25 mph would either do a one tire fire till the 2nd shift with a slight chirp or dead hook and launch hard.

    Winter driving wasn't too bad either. One winter two trucks, and f- 150 and a bigger f- 350 were stuck in a ditch. The f- 350 was trying to pull him out and slid in. I pulled both of them out one at a time with my tow rope on sorta wet pavement right after a snow storm.

    Overall the fraction was good for an all season. The 275/60's were a bit tall (28") and wide (10.8"). A 275/50 would be close to stock height (26.1") and narrower(10.1") and would probably fit much better. When I had a bunch of weight in the trunk, they would rub a bit.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  21. #21
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    Hi. Looking to put tires on my 10 holes, wondering if anyone has had any feedback on the Vredestei? Since this is a summer only car, this seems to be the best option. Thanks!

  22. #22
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    Just a quick update. So far pretty pleased with the Vredestei tires. They are nice looking and seem to handle great, but I've only got about 30 miles on them so far.

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    Sorry for the upside down pics, they show right on my computer???!!
    Last edited by wraithracing; 08-27-2017 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Fix Pictures

  23. #23
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Nice car! It looks great with her new shoes

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Nice car! It looks great with her new shoes
    Thanks! Glad to have it back on the road with all the help from here!

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