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  1. #1

    Default Pace car carb rebuild questions

    Hey guys.. Was wondering what the best main jets ,main well tubes,air bleed plugs to use on a model 5200 carburetor. I do not have any of the emission control equipment any more on the motor. This thing has been eating fuel and oil since I rebuilt this carb 2 years ago. Using a brass float as well. Motor is totaly rebuilt with like 6,000 miles on it. Carb was off another 2.3 I had and not sure if it was set up for a TURBO 2.3 as far as the proper jets, main well tubes and air bleed plugs.. I never had this issue until I rebuilt this carb way after The motor rebuild . Any input?? Much appeciated!!!

  2. #2

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    Also by the way upon dismantling the carburetor I found main jet #263 in the primary. Main jet #283 in secondary. Both main well tubes are #74. Both air bleed's are #185.

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    The turbo carb air horn looks like this;
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...l=1#post859010
    Note the extra small curved vac taps, front center and pass side of air horn.
    They are turbo engine specific and affect operation.

    Specs:
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...l=1#post974896

    Some of the emissions and vac lines need to be reattached.
    IF not it runs like crap and sucks fuel, just like you say.

    Brass float? The early versions of the 5200 had them.
    The 79 had the black one. At least mine does.
    Last edited by gr79; 07-13-2015 at 12:49 AM.

  4. #4

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    Thanks gr79!! A lot of help with those links! My carb doesn't have the vacuum port on the SIDE that u show in the one pic.. It DOES have the one in the front that curves down. Is this ok having only the one? And also where do I hook the vacuum line to on it? Also does my distributor vacuum hook to the base of my carb in the vacuum port??

  5. #5

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    So in the pic gr79 posted the link for on the the TOP cover of the carburetor, where does the curved vacuum port in the FRONT of the carburetor connect to???? Also which emissions do I hook back up??i have another intact turbo motor for parts to rob parts from. I hope I only need to use the EGR valve and pipe to the exhaust manifold. IF so where do I hook the EGR vacuum port to and do I need any of the check valves that go inline with their respective vacuum lines?

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Per Ford EVTM 49 state vac diagram, and how i have mine connected:

    Note: The side curved carb port can loosen up and fall out, leaving the hole open.
    If missing, another short tube can fit in there.

    Connect short piece of vac hose to that side carb port.
    Then install small black/white check valve, black side to carb.
    Then install a tee.
    Connect the carb front curved port to the tee.
    Connect the remaining tee connection to intake manifold.
    They say #4 (in back). I used the intake manifold tree by the dist.

    Summary:
    Need a vac tee
    Small black/white check valve
    Right size vac hose to connect these items.

    Connections using short sections of vac hose/tubing:
    Connect front curved port to tee;
    Connect white side of small black/white check valve to tee;
    Connect black side of this check valve to carb side curved tube;
    Connect remaining connection of tee to intake manifold vac tap.
    Adjust as necessary for good idle.

    The side carb port is ends in the secondary venturi.
    That is where carb spray ends up when sprayed into it.
    Why or what it does? Dunno. It does affect carb idle adjustment.

    At minimum, do connect the large bowl vent line and its green/white check valve to the charcoal canister.
    This carb valve also has a 12v wire connected to it.
    Connect the fuel tank return line to canister.

    I deleted the egr. Fabbed a plate. It can stay and do nothing.
    One of its ports is connected direct to intake manifold.

    Dist was orig connected to carb base ported vac tap with another larger black/white check valve.
    Since i also removed most of the emissions, the dist is now connected directly to the intake manifold.

    Car runs fine. Took many hours to adjust things. 20+ mpg and normal power and engine start.
    The choke is removed. Car actually started worse with it even our winters.

    Make sure engine is getting cool air when warmed up.
    Check the carb heat air duct thing if it is still connected, Often sticks, closing off fresh cool air.
    Result is low power and fuel mileage.
    Mine is stored. Again it starts fine without it.

  7. #7

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    Gr79 you are the best ! So helpful! One last thing.. The small black and white check valve u mention; is that the same as the one as used originally for the distributor vacuum line? Because I can buy the one for the distributor from NPD in Livonia. I want to know if it's one that NPD carries... If u have a current NPD catalog look on page 145 to refer which items I need.. Thanks so much!!!

  8. #8

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    Update! I see on page 105 of NPD's catalog. The item '9c369 seperator assembly' fuel vacuum is the check valve I assume is the one to use for the 2 air horn vacuum ports on the top of the carburetor . Am I correct? Also should I still buy the check valve for the distributor vacuum line and use it at the base of the carb for the distributor?? OR is it just best to connect the distributor to the main vacuum tree??

  9. #9

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    Update again.. I see on page 111 also is the correct check valve for the distributor??? If so what item number??

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default notes and thoughts on vac check valves

    NPD 2015 Page 105
    The M-9C369-3B closely resembles the dist check valve that was plugged into the base of the carb.
    Still have it and can check it closer if need be.
    I like a check valve in the dist line so turbo boost can't blow into the dist advance can and retard the spark.

    The dist, waste gate, and carb bowl vent check valves are ones that i can say "that is were it was or goes".
    The others were picked up at the 'yard and have no way to tell if they are calibrated exact for the use.

    If i could get the different color ones, then they could be tried out to see if they make a difference.
    So far i find no real noticeable change switching one for the other.
    The important part is that they are there. Can detect a change when they are not or reversed.

    NPD 2015 Page 111
    The small M-12A197-3 (1980) looks like the one on my engine's waste gate. Never seen the blue -4.
    And they are for other model years.

    The M-12A091-11 looks like the one i am using with the carb tee.
    Page 111 shows four versions, but list the same ordering numbers!

    Page 145 is better.

    Although NPD is great, 20.00 is steep for this item.
    I go to Parts Galore or pick your own yards and get a variety of them by the handful cheap.
    Auto parts stores also carry them. Pretty much a generic part.

    Overall i experimented and continue to do so when something seems amiss or just to tweak things better.
    Am close because the engine basically runs the same or better as it did in 1980 before any changes.

    Make sure you are using a Motorcraft PCV valve and the correct one. This one i will pay extra for.

    Using a vac gage is very helpful when working on this area. Should be steady 17"-20" at idle and steady rpm.
    Found the normal 900 rpm idle spec is just too low. 1000 or 1100 has always worked better for my engine.
    Same with base timing. Gave it what it wants, total timing just short of spark knock with 87 RON.
    It goes hand in hand with the carb/engine tuning.

  11. #11

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    Hey I just bought another 5200 carb today at a swap.. The top cover has both air horns for vacuum lines. Yet the carb is jetted 206 and 235 in the mains. My concern is the PLUNGER that depresses the power valve. My original carb has a LARGER diameter and length of plunger than the one I bought today. Do I use the original larger plunger style than the one on the carb I bought today???the larger plunger on my original carb when vacuum applied to it through the front air horn pulls it very little AWAY from the power valve housing. I'm worried I'll still be pushing excessive fuel when idling still . Any opinion??much appreciated.

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Swap the parts to get the correct combo.
    Factory used 263/275 jets for none a/c, 259/283 for a/c.
    The 283 secondary jet will work fine with the 263 primary jet.

    Those vac taps may have also been used on n/a 2.3.
    Who knows how many configurations and engines that carb was used on.

    From what i read, the enrichment valve plunger pushes down on the power valve under boost thru that additional front vac port.

    From the Holley Service Guide #1:
    During idle and normal driving conditions, manifold vacuum is high enough to overcomes power valve spring tension and the valve remains closed.
    Last edited by gr79; 07-20-2015 at 12:01 PM.

  13. #13

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    Do you have a pic to post here of the correct plunger to use that presses the power valve down when under boost?this carb i just bought is smaller but I have never seen this size of plunger. I've had several of these carbs off 2.3's. Like i mentioned my original plunger looks like it BARELY pulls away from the power valve when vacuum applied. Sorry, I was just confused on your last reply about it. I'm just down to this . Went to NPD and got the check valves too.

  14. #14

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    Name:  image.jpg
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Size:  70.5 KBName:  image.jpg
Views: 141
Size:  72.9 KB ok here is a pic of my original carb and one of the carb I just bought. Notice the size difference of the plunger for the power valve..

  15. #15

  16. #16

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    2 things--- I have a upgraded CRANE cam . Do I use the timing on my specs sheet from the cam INSTEAD of factory timing?? The other I question is are you supposed to suck vacuum through the check valve on the SIDE air horn on the top of the carburetor when it's idling? Reason is I wonder if I am using the correct check valve from NPD at that location.thr check valve in using there right at the vacuum port there has the black side FACING the carb and it does NOT suck air out of the secondary side of the carb in a idle...I'll post a pic of my camshaft specs with this post to have a idea of what I have.

  17. #17

    Default Camshaft specs sheet

    Hey guys what should my timing be acording to this sheet??Name:  image.jpg
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  18. #18
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Yah black to carb per EVTM schematic.
    I forget whether it blows or sucks into there.
    All i know the engine starts with foot off accel pedal after sitting over nite (in our current weather).
    Or after brief start and stall, a little coaxing via pedal for a few secs.

    Check out these links:

    Post #14 (from 1979 EVTM)
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...equired-please

    https://www.google.com/search?q=four...!%3B1023%3B769

  19. #19
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    I'm going to resurrect this thread if that's OK. I'm having the same issue with my 79 2.3t. Doesn't have the "umph" I had it dynoed and it came out to 150 hp. Which is understandable. I did however eliminate most of my vacuum line and blocked off my egr. I have a turbo cam from racer walsh installed as well. If I sent a picture of my current setup, would this help in solving my issue? Or are they supposed to be this way?

    Thanks,
    Lamont.

  20. #20
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    My turbo carbs have the bottom pictured plunger in post #14.

    Several things to check if engine seems a little flat.
    Check idle vac and boost level. Idle vac should be 17"+ when engine is warmed up. Vac leaks ruin performance.
    Check boost pressure to see if it is correct. A boost gauge is the only real way to see that.

    There is one vac line for sure that can temporally totally prevent boost for days. Found out that's an easy 2 minute fix.

    Also check to see if the power valve pictured does not have a torn diaphragm. Found out about that one too.
    Will still run ok, but fuel mileage and idle setting will be off. Carb top has to come off.

    Missing vac lines can throw off the whole deal. Some have to be connected.
    Carb does not like dirt, especially in fuel bowl. It gets in there through a back door or something. Not thru the filters.

  21. #21
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    I added the vacuum lines on the carb and a t fitting to manifold vacuum. vacuum gauge is about 14-15. I do have a thumpy cam in it so that could be why. I set it at 8BTC and it felt a lot better. I heard pinging in the upper RPM with turbo engaged so I backed off. I now set it to 10BTC. and turned adjustment screw 2 1/4 turn out. I'll attach pictures later on of my engine bay and the vacuum lines.

  22. #22
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    Default my engine bay.

    Where do the waste gate hoses go as well?
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  23. #23
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Different waste gate hose routing configurations exist on turbo carb engines. Do not know why.
    Early build and later build? Mine is early.

    The big hose is connected directly to rear of the air cleaner housing Always was, always will be.
    The long large rubber hose is factory, and has a 90° bend formed on the end, never had a check valve.
    Connects to a off white plastic barb fitting that is a twist fit into the a/c hole, next to the v/c breather.
    Engine will not run with the big hose connected up front where yours is, even though it fits fine.

    The small hose, with black/white check valve, is connected to metal tube runner #4, like yours is.
    Always was, always will be.

    This small waste gate hose's check valve has the black end facing the waste gate.
    That is the hose that can stop boost. Very very rarely happens but does. Dunno why.
    First encountered this in the early 80's. Thought it was the brand of fuel. Nope.
    Fix is to pull hose off waste gate port and simply reinstall.
    When there is no boost, i park and remove the line. A 'pop' is heard. Car immediately has boost again.
    Before i knew this, would take days for the pressure to equalize on its own.
    Maybe the old check valve sticks.
    No boost happened under warranty too and dealer could not figure it out. Of course they never caught it in the act.

    I do have the large bowl vent hose connected to charcoal canister and the solenoid wire too. Had it plugged like yours.
    Reconnected things because fuel was observed dripping into venturis after shutdown, causing hard hot start.
    Last edited by gr79; 03-27-2019 at 11:06 PM.

  24. #24
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    Thanks gr79.
    So tonight, I went back to my diagram and ran the distributor advance hose to number four runner, put a t, then from the t, ran to the PS side of carb F I think with a check valve. Then from there, went to the power valve outlet on the front of the carb. Set timing to 12btc and I'm now pulling 14 vacuum. But it just dawned on me tonight that with this carb, I drilled and tapped the jet holes to accept holly jets. I can't remember what size I put in there either. How would that affect vacuum and boost? The only thing I know about carbs is what I've learned by trial and error. I DO however have a brand new carb in stock for these 2.3t engines. What would you suggest?

    Lamont.

  25. #25
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Have several prior posts with notes
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ID-numbers-etc
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...after-15-years!


    Check jet sizes

    Have 79 non ac 5200 carb, stock jetting:
    263 primary, is .054 drill size (per Holley chart).
    275 secondary, is .055 drill size

    ac cars have:
    259 primary, is .053 drill size
    283 secondary, is .056 drill size.
    That is the spread Ford used with stock 79 factory cam.

    Using same oem carb calibration after basically stock engine rebuild. Runs stronger, same mileage or little better.

    No noticeable change moving up or down one drill size. Two or three down, car is a dog. 2-3 up would be a pig.
    Did have carb shop ultrasonicly clean the carb. I do the assy/disassy.
    Engine .030 over, align hone, basic blueprint. Stock turbocharger. No EGR, Ranger header.
    Has A231 Ford cam upgrade- SVO, T-Bird, the later factory 2.3 Turbo EFI 'big' cam, straight up.
    Timing is same as yours. Runs best there, no knock 87 ron, except with bad batch of cheap fuel.
    Same carb tee with black/white check valve, same way black end on carb side.

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