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  1. #776

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    Good grief... what an idiot... words that often replay in my head: no matter how paranoid you think you are, it's not paranoid enough... and my parents often saying, "if you want something done right, do it yourself."
    I'm glad you decided to dig into this "rebuilt" engine bud. Your findings and inclinations are right on the money... such as rods and caps have inner bevels (stamped numbers go together with stamped numbers, etc) that are to ride where the crankshaft's journals' outers have a radius, and rods to run flat side to flat side, with a bit of clearance between each pair... what a hill billy, what a mess. As was, I wouldn't give the poor thing a lifespan prediction of more than 5 or 10 minutes, with a rather loud and catastrophic finale... I wish stupid stuff and exposure to dingbattery didn't happen to good guys. What you have, which is fine, is a good foundation (if the standard pistons aren't goose loose in cylinder bores honed too big and the crank didn't get scored too badly) for you to now rings/bearings/gaskets it.
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 10-25-2017 at 06:19 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1966 Ford Fairlane sedan
    1966 Ford Fairlane GT
    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham
    1980 Capri RS Turbo
    1971 Mustang
    1974 Pontiac LeMans

  2. #777

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    I don't mean to be the weirdo here Brock, but, you got a great deal on this slightly "misaligned" engine. Now you get to tear it completely down and make it right! How fun!

    Ok......so maybe I am the odd fellow out here....

  3. #778
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davedacarpainter View Post
    I don't mean to be the weirdo here Brock, but, you got a great deal on this slightly "misaligned" engine. Now you get to tear it completely down and make it right! How fun!

    Ok......so maybe I am the odd fellow out here....
    I’m right with ya! I don’t mind this so much...just wish I had a few extra tools of the trade. I’m catching heck trying to measure the cylinder bores.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  4. #779

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    Quote Originally Posted by 84StangSVT View Post
    I’m right with ya! I don’t mind this so much...just wish I had a few extra tools of the trade. I’m catching heck trying to measure the cylinder bores.
    Time for a new tool then Brock? Right on brother!

  5. #780
    FEP Power Member magnum517's Avatar
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    You right, for the money you paid, you got a good foundation for a fresh motor build. Look forward to seeing how this plays out. Now is the time to just build what you always wanted for the car!! So go for it!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    --86 GT vert.306,Powerdyne blown 7 psi, E303, ported E7s,MAF conv, BBK shorties n OR H, 3" Mac Pro Dumps, WC T5, 5 lug'd, 17" Bullitts, 3" cowlhood, SN95 Gt front brakes, 4.11s.
    --Bill

  6. #781

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    Brook,

    I would check the valves here, maybe it's the view. The far left and far right exhaust valves look to be at different heights; the right one is sunk into the head and the left one is proud a bit. Place a straight edge across all the valve stem tips to see what's going on. With previous finds on this motor, I'd count on disassembling the valve train also....

    It's also a bit fun to cc the heads, just to know about what compression you'll have.

    -j
    _________________________________________
    1984.5 Mustang GT: org. 5.0, 5spd, 3.27's;
    GT-40's w/93 exhaust; t-bird TC brakes....

  7. #782
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burntorange84 View Post


    Brook,

    I would check the valves here, maybe it's the view. The far left and far right exhaust valves look to be at different heights; the right one is sunk into the head and the left one is proud a bit. Place a straight edge across all the valve stem tips to see what's going on. With previous finds on this motor, I'd count on disassembling the valve train also....

    It's also a bit fun to cc the heads, just to know about what compression you'll have.

    -j
    I agree with you on that and I will definitely check them also. I'm sure they are goofy too.

    How do you CC a head?
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  8. #783

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    Wow. As suspected, it is SUSPECT! You still didn't pay much for it and I think most of what you have is probably a good foundation to start with. Now you have a roller block at least. That's good stuff. I don't think we need to keep re-hashing what all is wrong at this point. You obviously have no choice but to start over. So we can agree that build was backyard and no good.
    So, that being said....you need a timeline and a budget before you can plan a build. Or you should at least, LOL. When do you want it done and how much do you want to invest at this point?

  9. #784

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    Do you want to trade your hack job for my rust? Let me know last fall before i wrap up a bunch of time fixing it

  10. #785
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homer302 View Post
    Wow. As suspected, it is SUSPECT! You still didn't pay much for it and I think most of what you have is probably a good foundation to start with. Now you have a roller block at least. That's good stuff. I don't think we need to keep re-hashing what all is wrong at this point. You obviously have no choice but to start over. So we can agree that build was backyard and no good.
    So, that being said....you need a timeline and a budget before you can plan a build. Or you should at least, LOL. When do you want it done and how much do you want to invest at this point?
    Yup! Right now the timeline is to have it done by spring and the budget is next to nothing.
    Now compound that with the fact that after this week, I more than likely will not see or touch anything car related for at least the next month, if not until dang near Christmas. Work calls and it looks like I will be out of town all of November so I won't even see the house.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2nd chance cobra View Post
    Do you want to trade your hack job for my rust? Let me know last fall before i wrap up a bunch of time fixing it
    Nah.....I'm good. I will leave that up to you to figure out all the nuances of it and then you can give me pointers when it's time to do mine.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  11. #786
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    Got the cylinders snapped and measured and what a chore that was! It took a while to somewhat get a feel of how those things work and it does not take much to skew the readings on a snap gauge very far at all. It took me about 3 days of dinking with it until I felt comfortable with what I was doing and measuring it out. I think a dial bore gauge and a big micrometer will be coming here in the near future. While these readings may be a couple thousandths off, they are close for my investigative purposes.

    All in all, with my very limited knowledge of this, I think the numbers look pretty good. Nothing seems to really stand out and slap me in the face as a critical issue.



    What are your guy's thoughts on this? Is this acceptable or do I need to work the cylinders?
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  12. #787
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burntorange84 View Post

    I would check the valves here, maybe it's the view. The far left and far right exhaust valves look to be at different heights; the right one is sunk into the head and the left one is proud a bit. Place a straight edge across all the valve stem tips to see what's going on. With previous finds on this motor, I'd count on disassembling the valve train also....
    Back to this for a bit. I took the advice and laid a straight edge across the top of the valve stems and broke out the feeler gauges. There were quite a few differences in valve stem heights as listed below.

    Passenger side head starting at rear valve working forward:
    .012 low
    square
    .010 low
    .002 low
    square
    .002 low
    .002 low
    square

    Drivers side head starting at rear valve working forward:
    .007 low
    .008 low
    square
    .008 low
    .002 low
    .012 low
    square
    .015 low

    Not sure if that makes any sense to you guys, but there are definitely difference in the valve heights at the top of the stem. What would be my next step here?

    Quote Originally Posted by magnum517 View Post
    Also while the heads are off, if you are not running the air pump, plug the air pump holes in the back of the heads and grind the air pump “bumps” out of the top of the exhaust port runners. This helps a lot with air flow and really wakes up a set of E7 heads.
    I looked at this closer while I was looking at the heads last night. It appears that these heads have been ported at some time in their life and I have no idea if this is good or not. Reading threads on porting E7 heads can be kinda conflicting, but most come to the conclusion that these heads can be touchy to the amount of porting done to them.

    Intake ports:



    Exhaust ports:



    What's your take on this? Does it look ok or does it look jacked up?
    Last edited by 84StangSVT; 10-27-2017 at 02:46 PM.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  13. #788

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    Brook,

    I assume your measurements are a tenth off, or just the way you are writing them, or you have super accurate feeler gauges. The third digit behind the decimal is thousands, thus I assume you mean:

    .012" low (twelve thousands below), otherwise were talking twelve ten thousands (.0012) which is nothing.

    I don't like that amount, .012", there may be a standard deviation for heads, but for a tight engine it makes it harder to adjust valve lash especially with pedestal mounted ones. Maybe someone can comment on that.

    I can't remember where I saw the thread on cc-ing the heads, but it was probably on FEP. It is pretty simple to do once you have a polycarbonate piece of plastic, some isopropyl alcohol, Vaseline, and a graduated cylinder.

    The porting doesn't look much like, taking out the thermactor bump and smoothing out the ports. I'd need to measure the port ends to know how much they took off to be certain. Otherwise looks close to what I've done on my E7's and GT-40's. But it looks like the exhaust could use a little more smoothing out on the valve (bump).....the word I can't find now....hmmm...i'm losing my edge.

    -j
    _________________________________________
    1984.5 Mustang GT: org. 5.0, 5spd, 3.27's;
    GT-40's w/93 exhaust; t-bird TC brakes....

  14. #789
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burntorange84 View Post
    Brook,

    I assume your measurements are a tenth off, or just the way you are writing them, or you have super accurate feeler gauges. The third digit behind the decimal is thousands, thus I assume you mean:

    .012" low (twelve thousands below), otherwise were talking twelve ten thousands (.0012) which is nothing.

    I don't like that amount, .012", there may be a standard deviation for heads, but for a tight engine it makes it harder to adjust valve lash especially with pedestal mounted ones. Maybe someone can comment on that.

    I can't remember where I saw the thread on cc-ing the heads, but it was probably on FEP. It is pretty simple to do once you have a polycarbonate piece of plastic, some isopropyl alcohol, Vaseline, and a graduated cylinder.

    The porting doesn't look much like, taking out the thermactor bump and smoothing out the ports. I'd need to measure the port ends to know how much they took off to be certain. Otherwise looks close to what I've done on my E7's and GT-40's. But it looks like the exhaust could use a little more smoothing out on the valve (bump).....the word I can't find now....hmmm...i'm losing my edge.

    -j
    You are correct. I had one too many 0's in those #'s.......they are thousandths, not ten thousandths.
    I corrected the previous post to reflect the correct measurements. Thanks for catching that.

    How would I correct the difference in valve height?

    As for the port job, I worry that it might be too much taken off as everything I've read has pointed to being very conservative with the porting on an E7 head.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  15. #790
    FEP Senior Member qikgts's Avatar
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    IMHO the can of worms is open regarding your heads. If it was me, I'd take them to the machine shop for a once over. They should be able to measure things up and tell you if the spring pockets have been cut or if the heads have been decked (I'd bet they have since they've been "ported") and if they have been decked enough you'll need to have your intake angle milled on the intake port flange so everything will mount up and seal. Used stuff with an undocumented past leaves a lot of questions.

    All that said, it's also prime time to pick a cam, so you can pick a valve spring set, and then you can worry about what the installed height will be, at the retainer that is.
    '85 GT

    The other one... 2005 Lincoln LS 3.9L V8

  16. #791
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    Duty calls, so I will not be working on the car any time soon. I know for at least all of November and possibly into Mid-December, I will be out at our Colorado Springs plant trying to get them compliant in regards to some OSHA regulations.

    That being said, I took the time this weekend to get her home cleaned up, tools organized and put away in their proper places and motor parts sprayed down with a rust preventative. Hopefully it looks the same when I get back and the wife don't have things scattered around and junk piled in the garage.



    Hopefully this will give me a chance to research and come up with a good gameplan for the motor. I'm going to have nothing else to do in the evenings but dream and scheme.

    Also.......I was not watching the Patriots game. I just happened to take the pic at the worst time during the NFL highlights.
    Last edited by 84StangSVT; 10-30-2017 at 10:40 AM.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  17. #792
    FEP Super Member STANGMAN116's Avatar
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    Wow a month in good ol colorado... hit me up. Id say dont even waste the money meesing with them heads if your gonna take em to the machine shop either upgrade or take a stock set of heads that i have laying around. Then work from there.

  18. #793

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    Your bore measurements look fine for with the standard pistons.

    Equalized valve stem tip heights are more of an issue with bolt-down rockers, not being able to adjust for differences and proper and equalized lifter pre-load for 'em all. The last "valve job" may have required more exhaust valve face or seat grinding, accounting for valve head depth (and stem top height) differences. Kinda bad practice to leave as is and assemble. Your measurement number differences don't seem huge. The fix is new valves where needed from multiple grinds and little edge margin left is the diagnosis, and/or seat replacement if that's the issue, to equalize seated depths and stem tips.

    The port clean up isn't pretty but doesn't look bad.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1966 Ford Fairlane sedan
    1966 Ford Fairlane GT
    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham
    1980 Capri RS Turbo
    1971 Mustang
    1974 Pontiac LeMans

  19. #794
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STANGMAN116 View Post
    Wow a month in good ol colorado... hit me up. Id say dont even waste the money meesing with them heads if your gonna take em to the machine shop either upgrade or take a stock set of heads that i have laying around. Then work from there.
    I may hit ya up on that offer. I'm gonna have a ton of time on my hands come weekends I believe.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  20. #795

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    IMO.......Drop the head off for a going over while your gone, they'll be ready when you are later, costs nothing till you pick them up, plus they are a good starting point with some porting and gasket matching already done. Next, build a 347, tons easier to make HP and TQ. Or go with what you have just make corrections and go with a Comp Cams 280 cam and lifters, its inexpensive, needs no mods and will make you a really fine motor for the street, sounds awesome and runs great. BO luck!

  21. #796

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    Those bore figures look just fine for standard bore. You can do a lot with only 302 cid if you want.

    If you are stroking it, I'd stay away from 347 on a street motor in a stock roller block. 331 should stay together a little better.

    Heads wise, it doesn't pay to spend much on those heads vs what you can buy that flow better and are ready to rock. Preferably something to raise the compression.

    depends upon what you want to spend on the project.

  22. #797
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    Welp.....found out today that I might not see the house before X-Mas. That's a major bummer as that puts everything at least a month behind what I expected.
    Now bad news always comes in a minimum of 2 but typically 3, so I'm at 2 currently.

    While on my work endeavor, my truck decides to blow its guts all over the road, 700 miles from home, leaving me effectively stranded. I have no choice now but to find a reliable driver and that leads me to having to make a car payment again. Somehow, when the guts blew, I happened to be in front of a dealership that was running a weekend promotion. I ended up getting into a vehicle, 2 year/24,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty good at any Ford dealer for a halfway decent market value price. I didn't want to get into another car payment again, it was inevitable, but I did get $4,000 trade in on a $620 dollar truck.....KBB in running condition.

    Meet the new stablemate:
    2010 Ranger 4x4, 1 owner, 98% rust free, 80,000 mile and clean. It does have a body lift on it and needs some wheel center caps, but it runs and drives beautifully. Oh.....and it doesn't leak a drop of fluid anywhere. Unfortunately.....it contains a monthly payment I didn't want.


    Last edited by 84StangSVT; 11-13-2017 at 09:04 PM.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  23. #798

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    That sucks in a sort of positive way Brock.

    I'm right there with you, my old '02 Dodge pick up is on it's last legs. It needs a rebuild, valve seals are shot and the rings probably are too. If it weren't for my current project I might try to rebuild it.


    That's a nice truck, if it makes you feel any better.

  24. #799
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davedacarpainter View Post
    That sucks in a sort of positive way Brock.

    I'm right there with you, my old '02 Dodge pick up is on it's last legs. It needs a rebuild, valve seals are shot and the rings probably are too. If it weren't for my current project I might try to rebuild it.


    That's a nice truck, if it makes you feel any better.
    Thanks Dave. It does kinda. It's not overly optioned but it is a fairly clean truck, with decent miles on it and one hell of a warranty. Full coverage insurance on this costing pennies more than liability on the other rusted out Ranger. I kinda wish I knew what wheels and tires they had on this truck before, as I'm sure they didn't do the body lift for these stock tires and rims.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  25. #800

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    My helper at work has a Tremor Ranger, I'll ask him tomorrow. He'll know about the wheels.

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