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  1. #551

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    Another day....another disappointment.

    First, lets talk about what went right.

    Had to secure one section of the fuel line back by the fuel filter. Piece of cake.
    Now it is time to put some gas in her and check the fuel system for leaks. I put 2 gallons of gas in it, hooked the battery up and used a jumper wire across the fuel pump relay base to start the pump. Click, whine, gurgle and whoosh.....I have fuel movement! Checked under car and so far, so good. No leaks or fuel smell. Time to check in the engine bay and see whats going on up there. Sweet! No leaks yet so now is the time to set the fuel pressure. Looked at the gauge and I'm currently at 10 psi. Start adjusting the regulator up to 43 psi slowly and checking for leaks along the way. So far, so good, nothing leaks and the fuel pressure is set where FAST recommends it to be.
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    Now that the fuel system checks out, gas gauge reads good also, it is time to get the mufflers under it and also get power to the CPU. Since I wasn't sure about the whole key on/cranking power for the trigger wire, I did what I felt would work. I tied a "toggle" switch into the trigger wire so I could get power. I will go back and revisit this area at a later date, referencing the link in the post above, but for now I kind of like this toggle setup as it will also work as a secondary anti theft device. Can't start the car if the CPU doesn't have power.

    FAST makes the initial setup of the system fairly easy, get power to the CPU, plug in the handheld to both the CPU and a power source (cigar lighter) and answer a few questions about your engine, setup and calibrate the throttle sensor at both no/full throttle and the quick setup is done. Once you get past that, it will ask for you to start the car and let it do its thing while the CPU makes some adjustments.

    Now for the disappointment in an awesomely epic way.

    Once the CPU says start car, I intended on starting the car. Hit the key and crank, crank, crank, crank but no cough, sputter, bang or vroom.
    In fact, I never heard the injectors pulse or fuel pump kick on.
    Time to do some research.
    One thing I learned really quick is FAST's troubleshooting guide is almost useless and their tech support is pretty much in forum form. Not that it is a bad thing sometimes, but it takes a while to get pertinent information.
    Digging around the information, I found tidbits that I can check.
    The first thing is the pulsing of the injectors that is supposed to happen at key on. I did not get that upon first attempt but why? Seems that function does not happen until the CPU sees a first start and run to complete the setup. So in other words, I will not see that function until the car starts and runs for the first time.
    Next up is the fuel pump not priming or running. Well it seems that like the injector pulse, the fuel pump prime function also will not happen until after the first run cycle, but it should still run while cranking. It's not and why? Again with hit and miss information, it appears that the fuel pump and also injectors are controlled by an RPM signal to the CPU so it only runs while the engine is running. OK.....that makes perfect sense to me.

    Now I have a direction to go. Lets try this again. The handheld displays live data, so I select the screen that shows RPM info and try to start the car again. Looking at both the handheld and the factory tach during cranking, there is no RPM signal. WTH!

    Everything electrical I have done to this car has checked out and the one thing I hoped would be trouble free (ignition) has failed on me. The biggest question is what is failed. My ignition system knowledge is a bit weak but I'm going to test what I do know and what I can do by myself with no help, which isn't much on both accounts.
    Checked the power going to the coil. I have 6.2 v on the positive side during key on and 12.6 v during crank. That appears good as it is switching between full and reduced run power.
    I know that the pickup coil sends the signal to the module and that is what controls the cycle for the - side of the coil to fire. Digging through the EVTM, it mentions the the resistance between the orange and purple leads should be 400 - 1000 ohms. Checked resistance and it showed on the meter to be 3.45 That's odd. I happen to still have the old pickup coil, with the brittle wiring, laying around so I knew it worked and would OHM it. Low and behold, it is reading 652.
    I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm guessing that the new pickup coil from Rock Auto is no good with that low reading. I wouldn't think that I did something to cause it, but I never know.

    Looks like I will swing by the McParts store after work and they are supposed to have a BWD coil in stock. I will take the meter with me and test its resistance before I purchase it. If it is over 400, then I should be good to go and hopefully get the car fired tonight, unless something else is severely wrong.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  2. #552

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    Jeez Brock, good detective work. I hope that solves the starting issue for you.

  3. #553

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davedacarpainter View Post
    Jeez Brock, good detective work. I hope that solves the starting issue for you.
    I'm not a master mechanic by any means, but I can investigate and follow directions.....which I'm overly anal about. Just ask the wife. Working in the field I do and surrounded by hazardous chemicals tends to make a guy that way.

    Update! Swung by the McParts store and grabbed the BWD pickup coil. Forgot the meter and they didn't have one to test it so I took a leap of faith and got it anyways. At least I could return it to the one by the house if it didn't work. Got it to the house and tested it.
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    Judging by what the book tells me, this one is good.

    Here is the reading on the "old" brand new one I got from Rock Auto.
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    Guess that is not a good reading and the thing is, I'm not sure it is worth returning as it was not that expensive. Might just eat the cost.

    With the pickup coil changed, time to try and fire this thing again.

    Crank, crank, crank........
    NADA.....


    Well it seems that in all of my latest testing of the pickup coil, I forgot to hook up the connector down by the ignition module that heads to the pickup coil. My bad....rookie mistake.

    Plugged it in, double checked everything I touched and tried again.

    Crank, crank, crank........
    NADA.....


    This time at least I had a RPM signal on both the factory tach and the handheld. Both were showing about 350 while cranking. Still no fuel pump though, even though the injectors were clicking this time.
    I decided to jump the pump relay to force on the fuel pump to see if it was even going to run period. Then I could research the fuel pump trigger later.

    Jumped the relay, pump comes on, fuel pressure builds and I hit the key again.
    Crank, crank........
    VROOOOM....thump, thump, thump in the sweet sound of 8 cylinders ! IT'S ALIVE!

    It runs for a bit at high idle and quickly settles into a nice smooth 750 rpm idle. Checked the timing and it was at 12 degrees BTDC. I slowly bumped it up until I got some stutter and backed it off a few degrees. Right now it appears to be fairly healthy sounding at 15-16 degrees. I will leave it there for the time being till I can check the total advance and get some run/drive testing time on it
    Last edited by 84StangSVT; Today at 11:11 AM.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  4. #554

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    Now one thing I instantly noticed after startup is how the exhaust smells. Mind you the first startup happened on the ramps in the garage (wife wasn't home ) and it was tolerable. It obviously had a faint smell, but it was nothing like the instant eye burning experience with the carb that was on it. It actually smelled kinda good.

    Checked the exhaust for leaks, especially around the header collector flanges where it was hard to seal last time and they appear to be well sealed this time. No puff puff puff found. Good because everything I have read with this system is that it is extremely touchy to upstream leaks.

    Let her run for a bit and then I decided I better move it out of the garage and let her get up to temp. Took it off the ramps, fired it up and drove her out into the sunlight for the first time since October. Man.....is she filthy and needs a good cleaning.

    Let her run for about 30 minutes. Checking her vital signs. Coolant temp steady at 178f, Oil pressure steady at 30-35 psi, voltage steady at 13.5v, RPM steady at 750. Looks pretty normal to me.

    Now to try something. In the past, if I got the car warm and then shut it off, it was a pain to start back up as it seemed like it was vapor locking. Shut the car off and let it set for about 5 minutes and hit the key again. Instant start without the lugging like in the past. I have a feeling the carb was boiling fuel in the bowls and causing the issue.

    After all of this, I still have to figure out why I'm not getting a trigger to the fuel pump relay. Did a little more research and BOOM....I got slapped with a severe dose of reality. I have the trigger wired wrong. If I had looked at the schematic a little closer, it was apparent that the trigger from the CPU is a ground, not a hot. It's kinda hard to pull in a coil when both sides of it are grounded.

    Removed the ground to the chassis and tied the coil into the fuel pump supply and tried it again. Turn the key on....injectors pulse and the fuel pump now triggers and primes like intended.

    Hopefully I can move on to other areas now. This wiring has kicked my behind.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  5. #555

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    Wow, that is terrific progress. I know it may not seem like it to you, but it seems to me like this has gone pretty quickly given the size and complexity of what all is involved. Also, each car is different and OBVIOUSLY you are quite capable but I would want to check in to 13.5 volts. The lowest I would think is acceptable is closer to 14. I am sure there is an official number and maybe anything over 12V is fine, I don't know. If you start running lights, heater and stereo, I wonder how well 13.5 will keep up. I am embarrassed to say I have a couple Foxes () and I make a habit to check them before taking them out. I check them so I don't have a surprise breakdown that could have easily been prevented. They range between 14.2 and 14.8V. So that's just what I am used to seeing. Anyway, great job and again, congratulations!
    Last edited by homer302; Today at 08:44 AM.
    Restoration of my 84 1/2 GT Turbo T Top:
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=124724

  6. #556

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    Quote Originally Posted by homer302 View Post
    Wow, that is terrific progress. I know it may not seem like it to you, but it seems to me like this has gone pretty quickly given the size and complexity of what all is involved. Also, each car is different and OBVIOUSLY you are quite capable but I would want to check in to 13.5 volts. The lowest I would think is acceptable is @14.2. I am sure there is an official number and maybe anything over 12V is fine, I don't know. If you start running lights, heater and stereo, I wonder how well 13.5 will keep up. I am embarrassed to say I have a couple Foxes () and I make a habit to check them before taking them out. I check them so I don't have a surprise breakdown that could have easily been prevented. They range between 14.2 and 14.8V. So that's just what I am used to seeing. Anyway, great job and again, congratulations!
    Thanks Homer, I appreciate that. Looking at the car everyday it seems like an eternity to me, especially since it was parked in October. I'm just happy that it finally runs again and besides the minor issues, both with new parts and my own stupidity, and time constraints it actually went fairly smooth.

    Thanks for bringing up the voltage. It may have actually been around 14.5 v while running and 13.5 v when off but I was focused on a few things all at once. I will double check and verify both of those tonight so I can take care of any issues before heading down the street with it. I will also do an amp draw with all accessories on and the car running to see whats going on there. I need to know this just to make sure the old alternator can keep up with the addition of EFI. I'm sure it will as I don't have A/C but I need to know.
    Last edited by 84StangSVT; Today at 08:50 AM.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  7. #557
    FEP Power Member magnum517's Avatar
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    Congrats Brock, that is awesome progress and a major step towards getting it back on the road. It is going to be like a whole new car this season!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    --86 GT vert.306,Powerdyne blown 7 psi, E303, ported E7s,MAF conv, BBK shorties n OR H, 3" Mac Pro Dumps, WC T5, 5 lug'd, 17" Bullitts, 3" cowlhood, SN95 Gt front brakes, 4.11s.
    --Bill

  8. #558

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    Great progress, Brock!

    Relays are initially a bit confusing to ensure what connects to what. I had a crash course myself with them with the fuel pump and ignition here. Their theory and function is great though, minimizing load on the vehicle's circuits, especially on our older cars where some of the aging electrical components and harnesses weren't exactly originally designed with overkill.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1966 Ford Fairlane sedan
    1966 Ford Fairlane GT
    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham
    1980 Capri RS Turbo
    1971 Mustang
    1974 Pontiac LeMans

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