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  1. #1

    Default I6 serpentine belt conversion?

    The brackets wouldn't be hard to fab/modify, but have clue as to if there stock serpentine belts that will work on the I6's water pump and crank. Anyone here researched this? I'm looking into using a later model AC compressor, power steering pump, and alternator.
    Last edited by rxracer; 06-10-2015 at 05:37 PM.
    1979 Fairmont 4dr
    302/4R70W
    Optishift controller
    8.8"

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    1. The Australian 1994-1998 EF and EL Falcon harmonic balancer has a serpentine belt grove, and fits the 200's 1.247" spigot and key way to the thousanth.
    Its commerically avaliable.

    2. The Taurus 3G alternator has a serpentine belt, and fits the 200.

    3. The Techumseh/Motorcraft/SelectAir/York 210 based twin piston 10.3 ci (169 cc) A/C pump is also used in the 1981 on wards Jeep 258 engine. You can convert it to 8 grove pully, which will take a 6 grove serpentine belt.

    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/YORK-210-A-C-...-/221688564224

    Its only the non A/C engine which uses a serpentine belt from 1981 onwards. See the first page of this article.

    Non A/C, copy Cali 1981 Jeep 258, http://www.4x4xplor.com/serpentine.html.

    There were no serpentine drive 258's with A/C, but you can purlion the YJ/ZJ 4.0 engine accessory bracket install on to one, or copy the XJ default belt layout. The 4.0's are reworked 258's.

    A/C, copy Mike1157's below

    http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...ic_process.jpg

    4.The Jeep 258 also uses FoMoCo Duraspark II Ignition, the same Carter 1-bbl YFA carb as the larger 250/300's but that also fits the 200 and the MCU control is 1981-1984 non EECIV, so a great deal of parts interchange.



    Part of it has been done by the late Mike Winterboear at Classic Inlines, and the very much alive Mike1157 Mastosky, our totally amazing 250 reworker.




    The 200 Fox engine shares a long nose water pump which is 1968-1980 Ford Fairlane/Torino/Mustang/Maverick/Granada/Monarch 250 I6 length, and the top hose is about 1.666" shorter than the 250, so you can copy Mike 1157'S system/layout

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1157 View Post
    **Sigh** More of the same.

    Still waiting on Summit to exchange the Crower Roller rockers so I can get a pushrod length established.

    The radiator that I ordered that was twisted got sent back and exchanged as well. Summit stepped up, sent out a new one, put in a call tag at UPS, and I got the replacement radiator on Mon-Tue of this week.

    Actually was twisted so bad you could see it while it was still in the box.

    They sent out another, issued another call tag. This time with instructions to the shipping dept to actually take the radiator out of the box, and lay it on the floor to be sure that it didn't rock.

    The one that came today had a damaged box, the lower outlet was bent to hell, and the core was twisted.

    Now I'm pis sed.

    I call Summit and tell the Cust SVC dept mgr about the fiasco, and she says that she cannot believe that they are sending out bad radiators, and that it has to be happening in transit.

    Three times in a row.

    HA! NO FREAKIN' WAY!

    I ask if she is doubting what I say, and she says no, that she was sure the radiator was bent, but believes that it's happening after it leaves their warehouse. Regardless, I tell her that I doubt that they have a straight radiator @159.00 left in their entire system, and that they should just refund me, and I'll buy one from Jegs.

    She asks if there is another radiator that maybe we can substitute?

    Well yes, there is this Howe radiator that'll fit the bill, but your website states that it's not in stock, and its 80.00 more money than the Summit brand I've been buying.
    She discounts the Howe unit to 159.00 and says she'll call Howe on Monday to see about expediting it.

    Again, a pain in the ass, but how can you argue with that?

    I get the head back from the Machine shop yesterday, now drilled, and tapped for a 7/16th coarse screw-in studs in an attempt to straighten the mis-drilled stud bosses that they messed up.

    I also have come to terms w/ my head gasket. I paid for an SCE copper piece, and that is what I'm gonna use. I just hope that the Hondabond sealant will do the job and seal the water and oil passages like they think it will.

    Desperate to move forward, I decided to completely mock up the engine in the compartment to build the accessory brackets, and hang the power accessories.

    I start by installing the HG in question:



    I'm putting this thing on there dry just to mock up installed height for when the rockers finally get here so I can get the damn push rods sorted out.

    I started by building the A/C bracket first.

    I placed the alt on top of that, but wasn't sure as to whether or not the exhaust manifold was gonna hit, so that's why I installed the head.

    Course, the head required the exhaust manifold. The exhaust manifold begets the turbo, the turbo begets the cold side piping, and finally, I throw the alt on top of the AC compressor.
    I'm gonna fix the alt in a non-adjustable position, and make an adjustable idler to tension the belt.

    Since there's no stinkin' radiator, I'll take advantage of the camera angle opportunity.
    Next I installed the intake so I could get the Cobra PS pump located.
    Clearly, I got no room to swing the alt anyway.

    I then made the block off plate that covers the W/P opening. I'm using a SBC electric W/P that'll hang from the intake in line with the block.
    The mock up wasn't w/o the usual drama though. The Intake will have to be cut up. I'm gonna have to put a 90 on the end, and orient the throttle body at 90 degrees to this pic.

    For obvious reasons.

    The valve cover is still raw, but it will get RD's fins, painted wrinkle black, then coated orange on top so I'll have wrinkle orange instead. The head gets the orange treatment too, and I'll probably change the header color to black to match the intake.

    The fuel pressure reg will have to be mounted on the strut tower on the MC side of the engine bay.
    The engine is sat so far back, I cannot get the head on w/ the studs in place, and I have to set the head, then screw in the studs. Because of that, the planned location for the regulator at the end of the fuel rail is a no-go.

    The power steering pump in this pic is only held on w/ one bolt. I still have reinforcement brackets to make, as well as the mount to allow me to swing an idler pulley against the belt. I hope to get that done tomorrow.

  3. #3

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    Thank you very much for that info. I'm very interested in how Mike's water pump install goes. I was looking into getting a later model style compressor to rid the bulky ness of the York style. That thing is huge. Possibly mount a 3G/4G alternator on the opposite side where the smog pump went too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1979 Fairmont 4dr
    302/4R70W
    Optishift controller
    8.8"

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    From http://www.rickwrench.com/index79.htm

    "6-12-04 A/C Install"


    The Sanden 508 is a 5 cylinder, 138 cc A/C pump that takes R134, and consumes 20 hp less at wide open throttle. Its a fraction of the 2 cylinder 210 cc York's weight. It can high mount in the stock York a/c pump position.



    Depending on engine mount and battery space with the Fox 3.3, you might be able to fit a low mount Sanden 508, but headers, the non EFI 1978-1983 battery position, and the forward mounted F150 4.9 six style engine mounts make it hard to package everything.

    http://www.fordsix.com/forum/viewtop...548690#p548690

    Quote Originally Posted by pikesan
    This is a pretty old post, but very pertinent to me!
    I'm putting air conditioning on my 200 six. It's a must in AZ, especially if you want to drive it like I plan to.

    I'm pretty sure the A/C and alternator bracket I have is like this one: http://www.alangrovecomponents.com/S...nder_Ford.html

    Here's a picture

    Maybe this will help someone?

    I was about to re-align the bracket to align both grooves in the AC with the waterpump and crank pulley. Then I saw that picture. Does that look OK to you guys? (I don't have power steering) but I do have a Classic Inlines stainless header. I think someone slightly modified the alternator mounting to clear the header.

    Feel free to follow along! http://www.myrideisme.com/Blog/tag/6...alcon-project/
    Thanks!
    pikesan


    Here's what it looks like in my build. Made some stand-offs to move the alternator away from the header. Came out pretty good! The longer belt needs to be about 1/2" shorter, but other than that, it's time to clean and paint.



    It looks like the alternator is still sitting on the header. It's just the angle. There's 4" between them.

  5. #5
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=72991

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy
    If you just do your homework....


    Cases noted here were Classic Inlines and Jack Fish almost got a 100% serpentine drive already.


    Case 1. Where the already six rib 3G Taurus was downgraded to a Ford Six 3.3 Fox pulley

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy
    JackFish, ble55 his currently Canadian bu++, took the Taurus Serpentine belt off his 3G conversion...he was so close to being the first 200 serpentine belt punter...
    For a one wire 3G alternator, use a Taurus unit, and it has a six grove pulley already. Stock Fox or Maverick/monarch/Granada 3.3 monts dude. Then its just the M90, power steering, Davis Craig water pump and contoller and copying Broncitus set-up. The set-up is fun!

    http://www.fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=70110

    Quote Originally Posted by JackFish
    I did the 3G swap. I posted here so there is a thread with info.

    Got most of my info from the four-eyed pride forum but there are a few sites out there with the info.
    There are two sizes, and I found that if you have AC (I have a fox-body) you have to use the smaller 3g, and if not the larger one fits better.




    Case 2.

    http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=71121

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy
    Keep an eye on the key facts...the serpentine system is able to work with any remote water pump...the water pump can be an idler gear, and the balancer as big as you please, and the f150 or Taurus 3G alternator held by any kind of bracket, the A/C PUMP ANY KIND, THE ALTERNATOR OR POWER STEERING PULLEYS CAN BE INTERCHANGED AND DOWN SIZED...







  6. #6
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    This ^ is balldrick's photobicket shot of the AussieHB1432N balancer requires a little work on the water pump pulley it the stock water pump is used. .

    If you are able to use the larger Aussie noiminal 6-7/8" (174 mm actually) balancer, it just requires an 5/16" metal spacer to shift everything from the water pump into alignment.


    The distance from the crank to the water pump on 9.38" deck 200/250 engines is about 6-7/8", so the biggest balancer you can run is 6.85" (174 mm), and the largest water pump pulley before collision is the 6-11/16" (170mm), with just a 3/16" (4.8mm) gap.

    On my 81 3.3 Mustang, there is 6" from the water pump to the crank centreline, and the same 3/16"gap between the 6-1/4" harmonic balancer and the 5-3/8" water pump pulley. When you go up to the 6.85" harmonic balancer with a US 200, then you have to go down to a 4-25/32" (4.78125", or 121.44 mm diameter max ) water pump pulley at the most. And for sure, the harmonic balancer is 5/16" further out than the stock 200 blancer. But you just add that in a metal spacer, or scratch build a water pump pulley to suit.

    rickwrench did a nice 5" twin belt pulley for his short nose 4" 200 water pump.

    You have to make one even smaller than this, with ribs to suit the kind of serpentine belt you are using. Due to the portrusion, without an added spacer, 1.9625" (49.85 mm) is as deep as you can go from the front face of the pulley to the back if its machined this way, as the 200 water pumps lower radiator hose interfers,

    http://www.v8alfa.com/images-sounds/pulley.pdf


    See balldricks serpentine set up on the taller Aussie 250 block, it has the Aussie HB1432N balancer required


    http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=56560

    Quote Originally Posted by balldrick
    Got some pics of my by-pass valve, intercooler and piping and pulley and electric water pump finished. O and my 17 x 8 wheels, getting closer !.


  7. #7
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    I favour the 4.9 Y code 4.9 truck EFI serpentine belt system. Its basically 87 5.0 Mustang or truck EFI 5.8 F250, but swaps the power steering and a/c position. On the big F150-250-350 EFI trucks, Iguess the 4.9 spark plugs and distributor force the a/c pump out to the air box, so Ford did the PS->AC swap.


    The 4.9 EFI set up is pretty much ideal.



    You still need to use the EF-EL crank balancer, but the 4.9 has a pasenger side bottom water hose inlet. balldrick was smart, he used the 4.9 style US passenger side inlet. Its simplifies things. So des Mike 1157's.


    The stock Jeep 4.0 1990 sepentine system follows stock 200/250 driver side inlet, and can work.

    See http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=37553.30


    txjeeptx "I went with a mid-'90s 4.o serpentine setup medley, starting with a Be-Cool XJ water pump, XJ power steering pump, XJ AC pump and brackets from a 4-cylinder XJ to eliminate the extra idler that the XJ 4.o brackets have, and a Nippondenso/Chrysler non-internally-regulated alternator"

    http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...ans_job003.jpg


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    Subscribed.

    It's been a long time since I was very active here, and I don't think I remember xctasy being on here. I am now seeing you are quite a source of knowledge. Thank you.

    Searching and found this thread. Good news is I don't need to worry about a smog pump for my 82 coupe. Bad news is still need a/c. Figured I'd try and look into a 3g setup and serpentine. Not the bolt on i hoping for. But very grateful to have the tech on the subject curated so nicely.

    Sent from my KFDOWI using Tapatalk
    Marc aka tripice351. 84.5 GT-350 2.3T.. and now, 1982 GL coupe.

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    The non A/C 1982 AMC 258 ran a serpintine belt. The late Mike W (AzCoupe) got heaps of help from Jeep suppliers and the Clifford suppliers chipped in to get some serpintine belt drive systems made. So if you go all out on a remote water pump like balldrick and Mike1157's or go back to the more Jeep style AzCoupe with Sanden A/C , or pikesan's Sanden/ork A/C system of ammended standoffs to tension the belt, its all good.

    The 4.9 truck system is able to take differing lower and upper raditor hose positions....on Australian 5.0 Mustang GT and MN12 Thunderbird 5.0 and later Explorer/Montaineer 5.0 the stock US water pump and alternator and powersteering pump positions were used with a small alloy cross under pipe to reposition the lower raditaor hose from drivers side to passenger side, depending on model year. So you can mix and match anything.


    Redsicovering how kick bu++ good the old single belt drive systems is a revelation for me.

    A little like the oft cussed out Ford CFi 2-bbl and feedback YFA or Motorcraft 2700/7200VV carb systems, Ford actually aced the class with really good physical applications that can be copied. Quotinng the 'net....
    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, as to imitate is to flatter without necessarily being aware one is flattering. As such, that 'artless' appreciation has to be 'sincere'.

    I copy Ford systems, I'm not an innovator. I tell people what I find. I love the Sepentine drive...Fords 1979 Fox Mustang/ Capri 5.0 serp drive was an example of really cool "Spring Back" from the draconian drudgery of the Malaise Era.....


    See how AMC did it in the non AC 82 4.2 liter trucks.







    Under "Single Belt Drive"



    They used Ford parts (York A/C, Ford Duraspark II with DS 1 cap, even F150 carbs (YFA/ Motorcraft 2150 2-bbl in some years) Mustang II derived SR4 and Ford order BW T5 gearboxes , ol' Hank the Duece (Henry Ford II) really helped out AMC with cheaper supply goods from Fords order forms before the Renault purchase.

    If the 3.3 and 4.1 weren't killed off in 1983 and 1980 in the USA, it would have certainly gotten Serpentine drives and 4.9 F150 or Aussie X flow style EFi as well.


    My relative from Alaska bought a Tempo 2 door home back to Cookston, and its 2.3 HSC engine is based on a cut down 3.3/4.1 I6, AND IT has a serpentine drive system.


    But the distribtor is repositioned back to clare some of the stuff.


    The Tracer Tempo Topaz and Taurus 2500 block




    all used the same kind of hard points with a taller deck 8.66" or AUS 250 I6 deck block ( 9.38"), but its basically a cut down I6 with new front cover, repitched cam shaft to distributor spacing, repitched in line four head port sequence etc, but it might get you serp drive more easily.

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