New Project! Lots of Questions!

[Snow Wolf]

i hope i got this in the right place. if it is not, i am sorry and can you put it in the right place or at-least show me the right place.
i figured that i would try this forum since a few of the candidates for this project are early fox body cars.

I have a few questions about a project that I have in mind.

First, to explain my project. I want to build a car that will run the 1/4 mile in under 15 sec, handle turns, and be able to drift. I’m also factoring in fuel economy, as well as the cost of building the car. Also, taking into consideration that I want a car that is unique and able to be used as a daily driver.

I’m looking at doing little or no fabrication. I don’t mind drilling a hole or welding a little plate, but I don’t want to end up into something that requires pinpoint precision. (The kind of thing that you will need a complicated jig for. or the kind of thing that if you are off by a fraction of an inch, it means starting the whole project over.) the car for the project needs to be under 3000 lbs, front engine/rear wheel drive, a body style that i like. and since i'm going to the 4.0, i'm thinking it'll make it easier if i go with a car that had the 4.0's older relative, the 2.8.

Basically simple and cheap is what I’m going for.

I have a list of cars that I know are good candidates for this project.

• 1979-1986 Ford Mustang fastback/hatchback/3-door 2.8l V6 manual transmission.
• 1974-1978 Ford Mustang II fastback 2.8l V6 manual transmission.
• 1975-1977 Ford/Mercury Capri 2.8l V6 manual transmission.
• 1980 Ford Pinto cruising/rally wagon 2.8l V6.
• 1979-1986 Mercury Capri fastback/hatchback/3-door 2.8l V6.
• and there maybe others

The main problem with all of these is there aren’t that many available to just pick up and start working on. At least, not with the 2.8L V6 Manual transmission. However, if it turned out that I didn’t have to be so picky about what motor or transmission they came with, that would really expand my options.

And that’s what I’m here for. To get info on what I can and can’t use or do.

The engine I’m looking at is the 1997-2007 Ford Explorer/Ranger 4.0L SOHC V6. I do have alternatives in mind if that can’t work. Like the 1990 - 2000 Ford Explorer/Ranger 4.0L OHV V6 or the 2.9L Ranger V6. They’re all Cologne V6 engines just like the 2.8L V6.

I am hoping to use a T5 or T56 Transmission in this build. Whatever transmission I use, it must be a manual transmission that can hold between 300-400 hp. Whatever the combination will be, I must be able to build off of it. I may only start with 140 hp. but down the road I can build it up. No point in buying a transmission or rear that will only hold 150 hp, if two years down the road, i get the engine to put out 180 hp.

So here are my questions. I’ll start with the cars first.

Question 1
I know on some cars there is a difference in the firewalls (and other components of the body/structure of the car) between automatic and manual transmissions. Others have no difference between transmission types.

In the 1979-1985 ford mustang, 1974-1978 ford mustang ii, 1975-1977 Ford/Mercury Capri, 1980 Ford Pinto, and 1979-1985 Mercury Capri, is there any structural difference between the automatic and manual transmission?

In other words, if I had two 1980 ford mustang, and the only difference between them was one was an automatic and one was manual; could I take the automatic transmission car and put the manual transmission into it? By just swapping parts? Or would I have to put reinforcement on the firewall for the added pressures against the firewall from the clutch pedal? Or would it require more modification?

That question is for all the cars in the list, but mainly to the 1980 Ford Pinto, and 1979 Mercury Capri. The manual transmission was only available for the 2.3L I4 in the 1980 Pinto and the 2.3 I4 and 5.0 V8 in the 1979 Capri. So those are the two I’m most curious about

Question 2
This is for the 1979-1985 Ford Mustang and 1979-1985 Mercury Capri. What are the differences between the K members? Between the 2.3 I4, 2.8 V6, 3.3 I6, 4.2 V8 and the 5.0 V8 K members? If i had a 2.3L I4 or 3.3L I6 or a 5.0L V8 mustang could i drop a 2.8L V6 into it?

Question 3
Would the T5 or T56 Transmission fit into any of the cars? I know it should work with the 1979-1985 ford mustang, 1979-1985 Mercury Capri. I’m not sure with the 1974-1978 ford mustang ii, 1975-1977 Ford/Mercury Capri, and 1980 Ford Pinto. I think i would need a custom bellhousing to mate any of the Cologne V6 up with the T5 or T56. I have a friend that knows someone that makes custom bellhousings and can do that. So I really just need to know if the transmission crossmember would work with the T5 or T56. If not, are there any kind of after market options?

Question 4
What rears came with the 1980 ford pinto cruising/rally wagon with the 2.8l V6? If it came with the 8 inch I can use it, but if it came with the 6 3/4 I can’t.

What rears came with the 1975-1977 Ford/Mercury Capri with the 2.8l V6?

The 1979-1985 ford mustang fastback/hatchback/3-door 2.8l V6 came with a 8.8 rear, and same with the 1979-1985 Mercury Capri. right? I’m hoping it’s not the 7.5 inch rear. If it is, I still might be able to use it for a while and then, down the road I can put the 8.8 in. (Once I was able to afford to swap them.)

Did the 1974-1978 ford mustang ii fastback with the 2.8l V6 come with the 8 inch? I heard somewhere that the 2.3 had the 6 3/4 rear and the 5.0 had the 8 inch. but i’m not sure what the v6 came with. I’m hoping the 8 inch came with it, because even a stock 2.9L V6 with its 140 hp would be too much for the 6 3/4 rear.

Question 5
Here is the big one. What do i need to do to the computer? If i pull the whole 4.0 v6 and everything to it, out of... let say a 2007 Ford Explorer, could i just drop it in an older car or do i have to reprogram the computer or get a bypass because of the security system and the communication to the instrument cluster?

[82GTforME]

The 2.8 V6 was only available for the first half of the year in 79 before it was discontinued in the Mustang. It was replaced by the 3.3 I6. I have understood the I6 K-member was the odd one and the rest shared.

We have a 79 2.8 with a C3 auto. We are entertaining the idea of swapping it to a manual if we ever get the opportunity. As far as I understand it for our 79 it was a one year only bellhousing and I am led to believe it was the RAD 4-speed behind them and not the SROD. I think I can use the Mustang II bellhousing and RAD but the shifter location was off or something. I haven't research it enough.

Our auto car has a 3:08 non-posi rear end in it. It is a 7.5. The 8.8 wasn't available later.

Oh and I also know nothing about a 4.0 swap either. Check out the V6 tech section you might find something there.

Good luck!

[306gt]

I guess you have a lot of questions! Mainly I don't get why you want to use the cologne engine. They were not a very good engine to start with. Has a 60* design and speed parts are pretty hard to find. The o.h.v. cyl heads were known for cracking and burning out the ex valve seats and valves. If you want to run under 15 sec 1/4 mile times There are far better choices out there. Most of the early 4-eyed cars weigh in around 3000 lbs without driver. so you are good there.
The Pinto cruising wagons weigh in around the same and some of them did have 8" rear ends. But most got the smaller 6 3/4" rears. The 8" will not fit a foxbody unless the mounting points are made and are welded onto the housing. The Mustang II v-8 cars all had the 8" rear. The 8.8" rear came out in 1986 and was only available in the V-8 fox bodies from 1986-1993. The newer cars after the foxes had them too but they were wider and some were equipped with disc brakes. The K-members for the foxes were all pretty much the same except for the inline 6 k-members. They had different mounting positions for the engine mounts. The 4 cyl, v-6, v-8 k- members are all pretty much the same and all have the same mounting points for the engine mounts.
The T-5 transmissions are a bolt in for the foxes. To install one in a German built Capri, Pinto cruising wagon or Mustang II you have to fab the rear crossmember and make the clutch cable work. If you have some fab skills it can be done pretty easy. The firewall does not need to be reinforced when swapping from a automatic trans to a manual trans.

[Snow Wolf]

306gt you are a god. thank you. i didn't think i would get my answer on the k-members.

I guess you have a lot of questions! Mainly I don't get why you want to use the cologne engine. They were not a very good engine to start with. Has a 60* design and speed parts are pretty hard to find. The o.h.v. cyl heads were known for cracking and burning out the ex valve seats and valves. If you want to run under 15 sec 1/4 mile times There are far better choices out there. Most of the early 4-eyed cars weigh in around 3000 lbs without driver. so you are good there.

well i was looking for a cheap, light weight, sporty car, with some power. a car that i like the looks of. and most of the cars i like are made before 1990. (matter of fact i never owned a car that was made after 1990. the newest car i have over owned is my 1987 Ford Ranger. which i have some wild ideas for. don't know if i'll ever get to them. but maybe one day. lol) so i start looking at the Mustangs, Pintos (only like the cruising or rally wagons, can not stand the hatchback pinto), the ford fairmont futura's (the good looking ones), Mercury Capri, and the German made ford Capri, they all was under 3000 lbs. then i looked at their engines they came with. i didn't want to build another V8 car. i didn't want to go forced induction right off the bat. and i want to keep the build cheap. i was looking at a starting hp target of 150 or more hp then slowly build up from there. i was thinking it'll be cheaper if i could find a newer version of the old existing engine.

well the ford fairmont futura had the 2.3 lima, and the 200cid Falcon inline six
the mustang II came with the 2.3 lima, and 2.8 cologne v6
the fox body came with the the 2.3 lima, and the 200cid Falcon inline six, the 2.8 cologne v6
the German made ford Capri came with 2.3 lima and 2.8 cologne v6 (not including the V8's in the list )
the highest stock hp for the 2.3 lima without going turbo is 119 hp in the 2000-01 ford ranger 2.5L.
well we know the 200cid Falcon inline six couldn't go through a wet paper towel. if i remember. the highest stock hp was in the 1965 mustang at 120 hp. i don't remember the horse power of the taller 250cin. but i know they have the same retarded head (oh if you don't know, you can unlock the power of the 200 but you got to go to Australia. i know a little about the 200 bc i had a 65 mustang with a 200 in it.)
so that left me with the 2.8 cologne v6. which I know the 4.0 SOHC in the Explorer put out 210hp stock and it's a cologne v6. and that how i thought about using the cologne v6. oh and there are high performance parts the for the 4.0. http://www.moranav6racing.com/catego...?CategoryID=32 and here is more http://www.therangerstation.com/tech...4_0_Page.shtml

if you know of another engine i can just pull out and slip in, let me know.

and also thank you 82GTforME

[Snow Wolf]

The 8.8" rear came out in 1986 and was only available in the V-8 fox bodies from 1986-1993.

can you put that in the older foxbodies?

[306gt]

Yes the 8.8 will fit all 79-93 fox bodies. Just have to relocate the rear brake line to clear the pass side tail pipe on dual exhaust applications for the early cars.

[84GT350CONV]

I thought I was starting to read a book for a minute there. It seems you are definitely a V6 kind of guy. If you can find one I'd consider that German built V6 from the seventies. It was a good running motor. Not so good on gas though. If you go for a modern 4.0 V6, try to find a wrecked Explorer and grab the entire wiring harness, computer, gauges etc. I don't believe they came with a manual transmission so a re-programming of the computer or a way to trick it may be necessary. Then there is the issue of making a bell housing work with the proper shifter location. You would also need a different rear end. It's feasible but in the end I think you would spend more money and time going that route.

[Snow Wolf]

well i do have my heart set on doing a V6. nothing wrong with a V8. but.... i could be wrong, but the V6 should give the car a better over all balance front to rear. idk if it would be lighter. i know the Windsors was a very light weight engine for a V8. i was really thinking about the 4.0 SOHC V6 but i'm not 100% sure on that one. there is always the 3.8L V6. i'm trying to go with a modern V6 bc of it's fuel economy and stock power. the last years of the 4.0 SOHC had 210hp stock. and the last years of the 3.8 had 195hp in the mustang. i just went with the idea of the 4.0 SOHC bc it is a cologne v6 and so was the old 2.8 V6 that came in the cars on my list. the motor mounts and bellhousing bolt pattern should be the same.

as for the transmission i think i can use a 2005–2009 base V6 Mustang. i didn't know until a few days a go. that they came with the 4.0 SOHC V6. shame on me for not knowing. lol

proper shifter location? omg i didn't even think of that. but if IF the 05–09 V6 Mustang's T5 is like the old T5 it should work. the Fox bodies did have T5's in the 5.0. but i got to look into that.

as for money. if i can keep from need to fabrication crossmembers, K-members, motormounts, and suspension the build shouldn't get too expensive. i'm looking at pulling most of the stuff out of junk yards.

yea i was beginning to figure i would had to get a computer programer of it . i know newer fords had a complicated anti theft system in them.

well more i dig the more it seems like the Foxbody mustang is the best for this build.

now what i really need to know. would the 4.0 SOHC V6 fit in the fox. would the over head cam heads clear the power brake booster and other stuff.

and again... thank you 306gt

[grabbergreen84]

You could always use something like Mega Squirt, instead of the Ford computer.

[Snow Wolf]

well lets hope i don't have to do that. this is my first ever EFI project. and the little bit i have read on the Mega Squirt's it sounds very complicated. i'm going to try to stick with the Ford computer but if it doesn't work, i'll look into it. thank you. grabbergreen84

[mustangxtreme]

now what i really need to know. would the 4.0 SOHC V6 fit in the fox. would the over head cam heads clear the power brake booster and other stuff.

If a 4.6 will fit between the towers, a 4.0 should have no problems.

In my effort to be different, I tossed a 400 in my 81 Black Magic and yes, I kept power brakes.

[Snow Wolf]

thank you mustangxtreme

now i got to do some digging. look into the computer and see what i got to do to do the engine swap. see if the 05–09 V6 Mustang's T5 is the same old T5. and i guess i should start to price out stuff since it seems possible to do this build with out a whole lot of fabricating.

[BlackMamba]

Here you go.
A nice solid 1981 Mustang V6 4 speed.
If it has been in Cali its whole life, there is a great chance it is Rust free.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb...001817305.html

[Snow Wolf]

that's about what i'm looking for. but i'm still in the planning stage. i got a good idea on what i need to do. now i need to price things out and make a plan, a budget, and start saving money back. now i have a goal. and as questions come up i'll be asking them on this forum. you all have been a great help. thank you all. and when i got the money saved back, i'll do a wanted post in the classifieds on this forum. and don't worry. if i do, do this build (which i'm hoping i can.) i'll post lots of pics.

i already have the looks of the mustang in my head. the early fox, while on top, black on bottom, black racing stripes with the saleen ground effects kit or something like it and the SVO bi-wing spoiler, and black interior. and for the rims, the saleen mesh wheels (or something like it), black in the middle and aluminum color on the outer rim. and in 16".

good god i want it so badly. lol

[Snow Wolf]

well i did some research on the 05–09 V6 Mustang's T5's. apparently the T5 went through a lot of changes over the years. with having a deeper bellhousing (starting in 94) and a different tailshaft housing (starting in 05), and having a shifter that is mounted to the body and connected by rods to the transmission, and other things . but at the core it is still a T5. i found the info here http://www.moderndriveline.com/Techn...t5_history.htm .

but it still might be possible to do what i want by mix matching different T5's. but i need to find someone that really knows the in's and out's of the T5's over the years. or start looking at other transmission that might work.

[Dean_T]

Check out the I6, V6 and N/A 2.3 section here and read any post made by Xctasy. He knows an amazing amount of information of the "other" Ford engines.

[84GT350CONV]

I've worked on a few 4.0 liter V6's. The carbon fiber thermostat assembly is prone to warp and cause leaks. I've used both Ford Motorcraft and Dorman replacements and they both fail at about 30 to 50 thousand miles. If you go for one of these engines you might look at getting the aftermarket aluminum replacement as this is a weak point of this motor. Twice as expensive, but it could keep you from getting stranded somewhere. Just a little extra information for you if you go this way.

[xctasy]

i hope i got this in the right place. if it is not, i am sorry and can you put it in the right place or at-least show me the right place.
i figured that i would try this forum since a few of the candidates for this project are early fox body cars.

I have a few questions about a project that I have in mind.

First, to explain my project. I want to build a car that will run the 1/4 mile in under 15 sec, handle turns, and be able to drift. I’m also factoring in fuel economy, as well as the cost of building the car. Also, taking into consideration that I want a car that is unique and able to be used as a daily driver.

I’m looking at doing little or no fabrication. I don’t mind drilling a hole or welding a little plate, but I don’t want to end up into something that requires pinpoint precision. (The kind of thing that you will need a complicated jig for. or the kind of thing that if you are off by a fraction of an inch, it means starting the whole project over.) the car for the project needs to be under 3000 lbs, front engine/rear wheel drive, a body style that i like. and since i'm going to the 4.0, i'm thinking it'll make it easier if i go with a car that had the 4.0's older relative, the 2.8.

Basically simple and cheap is what I’m going for.

I have a list of cars that I know are good candidates for this project.

• 1979-1986 Ford Mustang fastback/hatchback/3-door 2.8l V6 manual transmission.
• 1974-1978 Ford Mustang II fastback 2.8l V6 manual transmission.
• 1975-1977 Ford/Mercury Capri 2.8l V6 manual transmission.
• 1980 Ford Pinto cruising/rally wagon 2.8l V6.
• 1979-1986 Mercury Capri fastback/hatchback/3-door 2.8l V6.
• and there maybe others

The main problem with all of these is there aren’t that many available to just pick up and start working on. At least, not with the 2.8L V6 Manual transmission. However, if it turned out that I didn’t have to be so picky about what motor or transmission they came with, that would really expand my options.

And that’s what I’m here for. To get info on what I can and can’t use or do.

The engine I’m looking at is the 1997-2007 Ford Explorer/Ranger 4.0L SOHC V6. I do have alternatives in mind if that can’t work. Like the 1990 - 2000 Ford Explorer/Ranger 4.0L OHV V6 or the 2.9L Ranger V6. They’re all Cologne V6 engines just like the 2.8L V6.

I am hoping to use a T5 or T56 Transmission in this build. Whatever transmission I use, it must be a manual transmission that can hold between 300-400 hp. Whatever the combination will be, I must be able to build off of it. I may only start with 140 hp. but down the road I can build it up. No point in buying a transmission or rear that will only hold 150 hp, if two years down the road, i get the engine to put out 180 hp.

So here are my questions. I’ll start with the cars first.

Question 1
I know on some cars there is a difference in the firewalls (and other components of the body/structure of the car) between automatic and manual transmissions. Others have no difference between transmission types.

In the 1979-1985 ford mustang, 1974-1978 ford mustang ii, 1975-1977 Ford/Mercury Capri, 1980 Ford Pinto, and 1979-1985 Mercury Capri, is there any structural difference between the automatic and manual transmission?

In other words, if I had two 1980 ford mustang, and the only difference between them was one was an automatic and one was manual; could I take the automatic transmission car and put the manual transmission into it? By just swapping parts? Or would I have to put reinforcement on the firewall for the added pressures against the firewall from the clutch pedal? Or would it require more modification?

That question is for all the cars in the list, but mainly to the 1980 Ford Pinto, and 1979 Mercury Capri. The manual transmission was only available for the 2.3L I4 in the 1980 Pinto and the 2.3 I4 and 5.0 V8 in the 1979 Capri. So those are the two I’m most curious about

Question 2
This is for the 1979-1985 Ford Mustang and 1979-1985 Mercury Capri. What are the differences between the K members? Between the 2.3 I4, 2.8 V6, 3.3 I6, 4.2 V8 and the 5.0 V8 K members? If i had a 2.3L I4 or 3.3L I6 or a 5.0L V8 mustang could i drop a 2.8L V6 into it?

Question 3
Would the T5 or T56 Transmission fit into any of the cars? I know it should work with the 1979-1985 ford mustang, 1979-1985 Mercury Capri. I’m not sure with the 1974-1978 ford mustang ii, 1975-1977 Ford/Mercury Capri, and 1980 Ford Pinto. I think i would need a custom bellhousing to mate any of the Cologne V6 up with the T5 or T56. I have a friend that knows someone that makes custom bellhousings and can do that. So I really just need to know if the transmission crossmember would work with the T5 or T56. If not, are there any kind of after market options?

Question 4
What rears came with the 1980 ford pinto cruising/rally wagon with the 2.8l V6? If it came with the 8 inch I can use it, but if it came with the 6 3/4 I can’t.

What rears came with the 1975-1977 Ford/Mercury Capri with the 2.8l V6?

The 1979-1985 ford mustang fastback/hatchback/3-door 2.8l V6 came with a 8.8 rear, and same with the 1979-1985 Mercury Capri. right? I’m hoping it’s not the 7.5 inch rear. If it is, I still might be able to use it for a while and then, down the road I can put the 8.8 in. (Once I was able to afford to swap them.)

Did the 1974-1978 ford mustang ii fastback with the 2.8l V6 come with the 8 inch? I heard somewhere that the 2.3 had the 6 3/4 rear and the 5.0 had the 8 inch. but i’m not sure what the v6 came with. I’m hoping the 8 inch came with it, because even a stock 2.9L V6 with its 140 hp would be too much for the 6 3/4 rear.

Question 5
Here is the big one. What do i need to do to the computer? If i pull the whole 4.0 v6 and everything to it, out of... let say a 2007 Ford Explorer, could i just drop it in an older car or do i have to reprogram the computer or get a bypass because of the security system and the communication to the instrument cluster?

Computer: Nothing. You have to use the Mustang 4.0 V6 manual one though. Use its stock OBDII, and reto fit the 2007 dashboard, and fit it into dash binnacle. OBDII requires another 40 wires with hard wired sensors, over the EECIV, and it required another 60 wires over the non computer cars. Can't fit a truck engine to a car is some states, and in some areas, the vehicle donor engine VIN and details has to be transferred over for IM testing. If you use a manual trans, it has to be a from a manual car. Axle ratio should be the same as the donor vehicle. mph per 1000 rpm should be the same as it was in the 2007 SN197. You have to fashion the right gearing by grabbing an 8", and doing a ring and pinion swap. Body control computer can be a pest, PUC code for smartlock and ABS removal is reasonably easy. The VSS on the trans has to see the normal info.

If you find an old 8" on a Pinto, they are 57" just like the Fox, the old 240Z brake drums can be put on to the earlier Pinto/Mustang II/ Fox 9" brake drums if you want. You have to get the E-brake sorted, and the four link and mounts transferred from a 6.3/4, 7.5 or 8.8

You can use cut down 9" 28 spline axles if they are the aftermarket no waisted kind, the standard 2.79/3.25/3.40/3.55 ratios are all there were, but the 2.73/3.18 ratio 6 3/4 was common. You'd find an 8.8" axle easier.


I don't see any problems with this swap. Use the V8 cross member, and stock 4.0 headers.


OBDII is your friend in this case. Its a quite heavy engine, 530 pounds, but its got 6600 rpm capability, and 250 lb-ft, and in a 3000 pound car, you'd see flat 15's all day, and 35 mpg at 65 mph.

[Snow Wolf]

thank you 84GT350CONV


well xctasy i have narrowed my chooses down. i think the early fox would be my best bet. pulling the 8.8 out of the newer fox and putting it into the early fox should be easy.

You have to use the Mustang 4.0 V6 manual one though. Use its stock OBDII, and reto fit the 2007 dashboard, and fit it into dash binnacle.

are you saying i have to use the dash out of the 05-09 mustang and put it in the early fox for the 4.0 to work?
if so, is there anyway to get around that? i really what to keep the early fox looking like an really fox.

Can't fit a truck engine to a car is some states, and in some areas, the vehicle donor engine VIN and details has to be transferred over for IM testing.

for Maryland's emissions test as long as it passes the tail pipe sniffer, they don't care. if the engine out of the 05-09 mustang burns cleaner then the engine out of the early fox, it should pass with flying colors. and if for some reason it doesn't pass, i can always put it on historic tags. but when and if i do this, i'm going to try regular tags first. i think it will pass the tail pipe sniffer.

Axle ratio should be the same as the donor vehicle. mph per 1000 rpm should be the same as it was in the 2007 SN197.

is there a way around that? if i want 4.10:1 isn't there a way to get around that?

PUC code for smartlock and ABS removal is reasonably easy.

that's good. i don't like ABS. my foot is my ABS.

The VSS on the trans has to see the normal info.

what is the VSS?

wow 35 mpg? i'd sh*t myself. i'm use to 17 mpg. i thought 21 mpg was good in my ranger. and my least car that ran low 15's got 8 mpg.

[xctasy]

VSS. Vehicle speed sensor.

And yeah. 35 us mpg. My 98 4200 pound 4.0 SOHC XLT Explorer got 35 imperial miles per gallon at 55 mph, when babied, it used less than my 170 hp 11:1 compression ratio RAV4.1. An imperial mpg is 20% less than a good ole US mpg....

With 1200 pounds gone, you'll be laughing. My 120 mile SUV did 16.7 second quarters with that weight and engine.

The boys at Dearborn, Mich and Cologne, Germany really did years of mapping that engine, it's got nasty fiber chain guides which require 31 hours labour to change in an Explorer or SN197, so you always redo them when the engines being swapped but its a good as a 215hp GT40/GT40P 5.0 engine in a Mustang. The 5.0 can be taken out to 450 hp as a 5.6 with the right parts, its got heaps more potential than a 4.0. 4.0's have conrod quality and conrod bolt problems when you really start to go past the factory redline, post 1985 to 2001 GT40 blocks have webbing issues at 7000 rpm with a 5.0 stroke, and over 6000 rpm with a 347 stoker

My 4.0 had 3.73's in mine, and 275/60 16's, then down graded to 235/60 16's, and got better mileage with less gearing. Got rid of the flares.

The EDIS is what makes it economical, and the aggressive spark advance curve, and the air fuel trim with the four oxygen sensors. If everything is factory, the EECV is a perfect tool.

Favorite write was a sand Baja racer with a 100% emissions legal 2007 truck 4.0sohc with the stock 5 speed rebuilt. They did it to avoid emissions testing problems down the line.

Just embrace the 103 pin plug EECV sh!+, and figure out ways to get the overall gearing the same, and run a stock Mustang v6 gearbox and engine tune. I'm sure you'd be able to mix and match anything, but with an engine as good as it was, there's no need to go custom ECU.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=240522

CHUPAKABRAS FORD 4.0 SOHC ENGINE

http://www.dezertrangers.com/vb/dr-rides/119213.htm

If you hate the electronics, the early OHV 4.0 can use bits from any junked sohc with a lot less hassle. Tommy Morana kits rock. Its just that the OHV isn't as good when you go off the factory hymn sheet. A 5.0 is always a good first option, its easy to stuff up the OHV's. The SOHC's are really good, and they sound good in a Fox, and they are kind of like 5.0's for power, better for economy, and kind of BMW M3 six cylinder sounding, without the desire to hand-granade.

You just won't get 210 hp plus with ease like you do with a sohc.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...=297918&page=3

[Snow Wolf]

If you hate the electronics

it is not that i hate electronics. i'm just new at it. everything in my past has been carbureted. i have even went backwards with my 87 Ford Ranger. it use to be EFI and now it is carbureted. now learning about EFI I'm kinda kicking myself for doing that. the only electronics i really don't like is the ABS. it just doesn't feel right when i pushing a car that has ABS to it's limits. it throws me off of "my game" when the ABS comes on and starts tapping my foot when i know i still can break a little harder and still have control over the car.

i really want to do a V6. it seems like everyone has a V8 Fox or a SVO Fox here where i live. but almost no one has done a fast V6 where i live.

Just embrace the 103 pin plug EECV sh!+, and figure out ways to get the overall gearing the same, and run a stock Mustang v6 gearbox and engine tune. I'm sure you'd be able to mix and match anything, but with an engine as good as it was, there's no need to go custom ECU.

well i was reading up on tuners that uses the stock ECU. and it seems that they can allow you to change gearing and tire size.


but you are right. the stock 4.0 SOHC V6 and gearbox out of a 05-09 Mustang would be plenty for the Fox. at first. and down the road i can play with tuners and other mods and see what it can truly do.

i'm going to look at them sites you have posted.

[Snow Wolf]

ok
i’ve been searching the internet like a mad man. i think i’m beginning to work myself up into some kind of BCM psychoses of some type. lol...

i have figured most of it out. but everything i read says i have to use the dash out of the 05-09 Ford Mustang because, something about the BCM. but i want to keep the 79-86 Ford Mustang instrument cluster fairly stock. i'm no Chip Foose. i don’t mind adding a tack, oil, temp, and other aftermarket gauges. you know. like the little 3 pack gauges under the dash, or the one or two gauges on the pillar. but i don’t want to sawzall out the instrument cluster on the 79-86 Ford Mustang and duck tape the 05-09 Ford Mustang’s in place of it.

so does anyone know a way around this. where i don’t have to use the instrument cluster out of a 05-09 Ford Mustang. isn’t there some kind of programmer that can delete the need for the BCM? there are programmers that can undo the PATS, there are programmers that can delete the need for ABS, and there are programmers that ables you to change gearing and tire sizes. but is there anything that will allow me to discard the instrument cluster?

or am i overlooking something and i’m just ranting and raving like some kind of lunatic.

[Travis T]

If you're still set on a V6, why not just go with a 3.8? Cheap and easy to find, you know it fits a Mustang with a T5 and a carburetor is a definite option. There is one four barrel five speed V6 83 Mustang on this site.

[Snow Wolf]

i'm not going carbureted bc your not going to get the MPG or the HP out of it like you can with a newer EFI. that is something even i had to swallow. i was mr.carb_or_nothing for many years.

The last production vehicle to come with a controlled fuel leak is almost 25 years old by now. the fact of the matter is a usb port is the modern equivalent of the long flat blade screwdriver. pound for pound the same motor on efi will live longer make more power use less fuel and have better overall driveability in all weather conditions over its life.

yeah lots of us can still tune a carb but when we use one we just use it and tune it and don't ask what people would recommend cause it's old butt tech. i mean you can only retool a holly or carter so many times and anodize it so many colors and call it a demon/edlebrock/supervelocotoiletbowl. i recommend the one that flows enough air to feed the cubic inches you have. and if you are proficient at carb tuning then efi should really be pretty easy for you.

if you do carbs properly you already understand rich, lean, the concept of mains and in some cases idle jets as well as needle taper and shape. i would assume you are using a tailpipe sniffer or wideband 02 sensor and not just your crotch chronometer and an eyeball on the plugs to tune with. so injector size is just your main jets. do they flow enough at max load wfo to feed the motor? we will talk about open loop which means the ecu is running preprogrammed values which is exactly the same as how a carb would operate (x amount of throttle position and vac = given amount of fuel.) the beauty of fuel injection is we can infinitely vary the needle taper by modifying the fuel delivery tables at a very exact rpm. deciding that it needs a little extra spritz at 3200 rpm if that is what the o2 sensor is telling us as we aim for given air fuel ratios. once the fuel delivery is taken care of you can attack timing and use the knock sensor to keep if from self destructing as you tune for max power without pinging it apart.

Your little ranger used something called speed density which assumes a given preprogrammed volumetric efficiency for your engine/cam intake exhaust combination. it does not actually measure the amount of air entering the engine. it calculates it based on the air pressure / temp and the above mentioned assumed v/e by altering the cam you change that ratio. for want of a 30 dollar j3 adapter from moates.net and a half hour with some software you could have fixed the issue and updated the computer.

most of the stuff that is recommended is mass air based which means it actually does measure the amount of air entering the engine so changes like exhausts, cams and intakes are in many respects compatible upgrades. it is not until you get into computer component upgrades like injectors and mass air sensors that you have to start programming The obd 1 eec IV in the fords is one of the most powerful and flexible efi computers ever designed and is actually very easy to learn to hack. check out http://oldfuelinjection.com/

I get what you are saying about carbs but appreciate that for want of understanding a few sensors, hooking up a half dozen wires to activate the ecu and the basic concept of altering some database tables you are missing out on the ability to really tinker with the motor and run clean doing it. After the initial curve efi is just easier. And i know from whence i speak. having just played the game of gas tank body work air box throttle linkages and carbs. tear down 4 carbs change mains assemble undo change low speed jets. repeat remove adjust needles. repeat again and again tuning the 4 carbs in my streetbike last spring. you know what that is in fuel injection. enter tab tab click enter tab send. miller time

OhSix'

[xctasy]

"We can do this the easy way....or the hard way"

Your solution is one my North Island associate from Hamilton uses...install all the stock sensors, including the dasboard ODBII distance sensors and interfacing, but hide it in the passengers side facia panel, and use the WiFi or Bluetooth ODBII LX for Torque with a Nexus 7 or other small android interface screen.



You then customize your display whatever way, and keep everything else stock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54mIEWdUesA

The hard way?

Well, there's some great dash swaps if you wanna make it complicated...

Foxes have a whole lotta BTDT "Been There Done That" posts...
89 Fox http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...le-in-my-capri
SN95 http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...OHC-Cobra-swap
S197 http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ash-Conversion