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  1. #1
    FEP Power Member jessew's Avatar
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    Question Rag joint/Intermediate shaft

    The rag joint on my zephyr snapped in two. I work on semis, but they don't use these, so, pardon my stupid questions. Lol. Can the joint itself come off? Or do I need the whole intermediate shaft the has the u joint with it? And where could I find one? I've been checking around for a few days and I can't come up with anything. It's an 83 z7. Thanks in advance.
    1983 Mercury Zephyr Z7 AM Radio, no a/c, 200 3.3l I6, C5 Automatic, Police scanner, 40 Channel Cobra 29LTD CB radio, PA system mounted under bumper

    2008 Ford F150 XL 2wd v6, 5 speed.

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member Travis T's Avatar
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    The actual "rag" part broke, correct? If so, auto parts stores carry a repair kit to replace that piece.
    1984 Mustang GT owned since 1991 (first car). Mercury Mountaineer GT-40P engine, some suspension mods, currently undergoing a five lug SN95 brake upgrade and more suspension mods. Some minor body and interior mods have been done as well.

    2004 GT convertible, 2001 Taurus LX, 1994 F150, 1950 F-1 Ford Pickup

  3. #3

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    http://www.autozone.com/suspension-s...ers-x-3-3l-1bl

    In the HELP section at most auto parts stores. Measure before you go.
    Lots of FREE F/Z info on my site.
    http://myzephyrs.com

  4. #4
    FEP Power Member jessew's Avatar
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    The back side is riveted. So I'd need to pull the shaft and drill the rivets out. Could I just run a higher grade bolt in their place?
    1983 Mercury Zephyr Z7 AM Radio, no a/c, 200 3.3l I6, C5 Automatic, Police scanner, 40 Channel Cobra 29LTD CB radio, PA system mounted under bumper

    2008 Ford F150 XL 2wd v6, 5 speed.

  5. #5

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    You drill the rivets out. The new one comes with the necessary bolt replacements.
    Lots of FREE F/Z info on my site.
    http://myzephyrs.com

  6. #6

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    You could step up to a steering shaft like the one Maximum Motorsports carries. Their shaft eliminates the rag joint in favor of "race quality needle-bearing U-joints." It's adjustable so it should fit your application and it will improve steering response. I wish I would have gotten one instead of the new rag joint I ended up with. Yes it's very expensive (compared to a $10 rag joint), but from what I hear they're totally worth the expense.


    http://www.maximummotorsports.com/St...tang-P980.aspx
    Cheers!

    Mike (TopGear85)



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  7. #7
    FEP Power Member 83gtstang's Avatar
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    Definitely in the help section. I bought two at AutoZone.

  8. #8
    FEP Power Member jessew's Avatar
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    Got a shaft ordered from Borgeson. Should take a week or so to get here. Guess I'll be soaking it in pb blaster each day.
    1983 Mercury Zephyr Z7 AM Radio, no a/c, 200 3.3l I6, C5 Automatic, Police scanner, 40 Channel Cobra 29LTD CB radio, PA system mounted under bumper

    2008 Ford F150 XL 2wd v6, 5 speed.

  9. #9
    FEP Power Member jessew's Avatar
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    Is there any certain torque for the bolt that runs through the bottom of the column and the intermediate shaft and the bolt that clamps the shaft to the rack?
    1983 Mercury Zephyr Z7 AM Radio, no a/c, 200 3.3l I6, C5 Automatic, Police scanner, 40 Channel Cobra 29LTD CB radio, PA system mounted under bumper

    2008 Ford F150 XL 2wd v6, 5 speed.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessew View Post
    Is there any certain torque for the bolt that runs through the bottom of the column and the intermediate shaft and the bolt that clamps the shaft to the rack?
    Column to intermediate shaft is 45 ft-lbs and pinch bolt is 25 ft-lbs.
    Ted
    86 SVO Mustang
    17 Cooper S Clubman ALL4

  11. #11
    FEP Power Member jessew's Avatar
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    Thanks. I've got no way to get to all data, so most of what I get is from Haynes, and it didn't list anything.
    1983 Mercury Zephyr Z7 AM Radio, no a/c, 200 3.3l I6, C5 Automatic, Police scanner, 40 Channel Cobra 29LTD CB radio, PA system mounted under bumper

    2008 Ford F150 XL 2wd v6, 5 speed.

  12. #12
    FEP Senior Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    Just bumping this up to make it easier to find later. As I was poking around the engine bay on my "new" car, I noticed the rubber disk in the rag joint was toast. Autozone's site shows they have Dorman 31000 and 31002, but doesn't provide any dimensions to differentiate the two, so that's helpful. Advance Auto Parts shows a whole bunch more Dorman options.

    Anyone have a part # handy for what they actually used?
    Last edited by Patrick Olsen; 02-22-2018 at 09:57 AM.
    '89 GT convertible - not a four-eye
    '82 Zephyr Z7 - future track car

  13. #13

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    Take a look at rock auto they sell a direct fit with the lower pinch splines for 16.00
    84 LX Vert. 5.0 5speed canyon red on white
    99 cobra, electric green on medium parchment, vortech s-trim

  14. #14
    FEP Senior Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    OK, found that listed for the Mustang - Lares #203. I don't know if my '82 Zephyr uses the same type of rag joint; I'll have to take a look after work this evening.

  15. #15

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    I didn’t realize it was a zephyr, the parts listing shows it for several 70’s and 80’s ford models but not the zephyr. I show a reman rack that fits fairmont zephyr and mustang in those years. I’m willing to bet It is the same rag joint just isn’t listed in the book.
    Last edited by Lowetlx; 02-22-2018 at 12:09 PM.
    84 LX Vert. 5.0 5speed canyon red on white
    99 cobra, electric green on medium parchment, vortech s-trim

  16. #16
    FEP Senior Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    Took the remains of the old one apart this evening. There's basically nothing left of the "rag" part of the rag joint.



    Picked up a Dorman 31000 at Autozone. Looks like that will work. Just have to drill out the 2 rivets that hold the stock rubber disk in place on the splined part of the rag joint, and then use the fasteners that came with the Dorman part to reassemble. I'll probably get around to that tomorrow evening, and will post up pics of the process for future reference.
    Last edited by Patrick Olsen; 02-28-2018 at 08:13 PM.
    '89 GT convertible - not a four-eye
    '82 Zephyr Z7 - future track car

  17. #17

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    Thank you for bumping this thread and describing and showing your progress with the shaft disassembled, Patrick. I still have to dig into mine, since whoever had things apart there last time (or when Ford put it together?), the splined, pinch-bolted flange went back onto the rack stem 1/4 turn off center... yes, my steering wheel turns 1/4 more to the right than the left, and the rear inner passenger side sidewall will easily rub if not careful turning right, and "they", instead of realizing or giving a $hit about their screw up, improvised by winding the driver's side outer tie rod end all the way in on it's threads, and the passenger side out a bit more than usual...
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 02-28-2018 at 03:45 AM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  18. #18
    FEP Power Member Broncojunkie's Avatar
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    This is what I'm doing from now on. I put a Flaming River shaft on the pace car, but the others will be getting this treatment:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q4fF33m7N8

  19. #19
    FEP Senior Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    ^^^ For me, fixing the stock rag joint is just a temporary fix for the sake of getting the car on the road. I've got an '03/04 Cobra rack and Max Motorsports hybrid steering shaft already on hand - those will go in the car later.

    So, yesterday I took the rag joint apart the rest of the way, then figured out how to use the Dorman 31000 kit to fix it. Having never done this before, and not having an intact rag joint to refer to, I can't say for sure if what I did is 100% correct, but I think it's good to go. I'm not sure what sort of disk was in the rag joint originally; the brittle remains that came out don't seem rubber at all, they seem more like some sort of plastic. Maybe it was some sort of polyurethane that has solidified over time?





    Regarding Mike's (Walking_Tall's) comment about his splined flange being installed 1/4 turn off, on this Zephyr that's not possible; the splined flange has a flat that matches up to a flat on the input shaft of the rack, so there's only one orientation in which the part can be installed. I can't speak to how other Foxes are set up, so I don't know if it's more common for the shaft to be indexed to the rack, or for the steering wheel to be indexed to the shaft, or both.


    Bolted to that splined flange is what I've seen referred to as the "dead man's bracket", which straddles the steering shaft:


    With all the original disk broken/crumbled away, the bolts were left with what I thought were sleeves on them, which prevent the bolts from coming out of the bracket. The one "sleeve" is chewed up in the picture because I clamped it in my vice, thinking the bolt would un-thread from the "sleeve". Turns out they're not sleeves, they're (apparently) part of the bolts. As far as I could tell, the only way to get those bolts out of that bracket would've been to cut them in half. The Dorman kit came with new bolts, so I could've done that, but I'm a fan of using OEM fasteners when possible, so I left the original bolts there (and just used my Dremel to clean up the "sleeve" I had chewed up a bit).

    The bottom of the steering shaft has a T section (which sits perpendicular to the "dead man's bracket" once it's all assembled), and the flexible disk is riveted to that T section:







    On the bottom side of the flexible disk, the rivets pass though metal bracket things that wrap over the edge of the flexible disk. The two metal brackets are different - one has "ears" that stick up, the other one doesn't (you can see those in the first couple pics in this post). That affects how they fit with the pinch bolt section of the splined flange that sits on the rack input - it can really only go together one way. Note that the rivets are extended, and stick out from the disk about 1/2" or so. Not really sure what that does, but that plays into how I reassembled things.

    The Dorman kit comes with a few different types of fasteners - some normal old hex bolts (which would've replaced the bolts on the dead man's bracket, had I chosen to cut them off), and then some black bolts that don't have a hex head, but instead have an extended head (like the rivets). I used those black bolts to replace the rivets and hold the new rubber disk to the T section of the steering shaft:





    Note that the extended heads are different diameters. No idea why (the rivets were both the same diameter), and no idea if it matters which one goes where. This is just how I mocked it up off the car.

    Here's the rag joint all reassembled off the car:





    Of course, once I had it all bolted together it occurred to me that I wasn't going to be able to install it that way - you need to have some degrees of freedom to enable you to mate the shaft up to the rack and the steering column. Here's how I reinstalled it:
    - I unbolted the splined flange from the dead man's bracket, and installed the splined flange onto the rack (without the pinch bolt installed yet).
    - Then I put the shaft into the steering column at the firewall (again, didn't install the bolt that holds it in place yet). I had marked the top of the shaft with a 'T' so I put it back in the same orientation, although I think it's symmetrical, so that probably didn't matter.
    - I swung the shaft into position, then slid the dead man's bracket down and put the bolts through the rubber disk, through the splined flange, and got the nuts started onto the bolts. I sprayed some silicone lubricant onto the rubber disk so that the "sleeves" on the bolts would slide more easily into the holes; the holes were slightly smaller than the sleeves, so it was a tight fit, but the silicone allowed them to go together easily.
    - Then I repositioned the splined flange on the rack input until the pinch bolt slid through and started to thread in to the other side of the flange; didn't tighten it down yet, just got it started.
    - Tightened up the nuts on the dead man's flange, then tightened the pinch bolt on the splined flange. At that point the rag joint was fully assembled, but the hole for the bolt that goes through the steering column and shaft wasn't quite lined up.
    - I put a screwdriver in and pried against the dead man's bracket to pull the holes into alignment (didn't take much force, so I don't think I was stressing something inappropriately), slid the bolt in, tightened it down, all done.





    I have yet to drive the car - other than rolling it back off the trailer and then pulling it into the driveway, I've never driven the car - so I can't say for certain that all is well. I think within the next week I'll make my maiden voyage in it. I imagine it will be immediately apparent if the steering binds up as soon as I try to turn the wheel.
    Last edited by Patrick Olsen; 03-01-2018 at 12:38 PM.
    '89 GT convertible - not a four-eye
    '82 Zephyr Z7 - future track car

  20. #20
    FEP Senior Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
    I have yet to drive the car - other than rolling it back off the trailer and then pulling it into the driveway, I've never driven the car - so I can't say for certain that all is well. I think within the next week I'll make my maiden voyage in it. I imagine it will be immediately apparent if the steering binds up as soon as I try to turn the wheel.
    Took it for a quick spin around the block, so to speak, Saturday morning. No issues with the steering, so it appears to be good to go.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
    ...

    Regarding Mike's (Walking_Tall's) comment about his splined flange being installed 1/4 turn off, on this Zephyr that's not possible; the splined flange has a flat that matches up to a flat on the input shaft of the rack, so there's only one orientation in which the part can be installed. I can't speak to how other Foxes are set up, so I don't know if it's more common for the shaft to be indexed to the rack, or for the steering wheel to be indexed to the shaft, or both.

    Thank you again for posting all this, Patrick. Excellent write-up and documentation for us. I'll have to look for a similar flat on this one's spline collar at the rack end. If that's the case, the racks could be installed a full turn off center. My 1/4 turn off center references have been stated simply because there's 1/4 turn more to the right than to the left when turning the steering wheel... but that may only be a hint at the whole story, because that's just the point where the passenger front tire rear inner sidewall will rub when turning right... and turning to the left extends the rack as far as it will that way, and is annoyingly less of a turn, lol. I know there's a flat on the shaft under the nut up at the steering wheel end...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  22. #22
    FEP Senior Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    Does sound like maybe the rack is off a complete turn - I can't really think of another explanation for the fact that you can max out the rack to the left, and yet still not turn as tightly. That's strange. Maybe jack the front end up, remove the front wheels, and then see how far you can go in each direction? That way you wouldn't be limited by the tire hitting the inside of the wheel well.

    My winter beater Subaru had the steering off center when I bought it about 16 months ago. Courtesy of Jack Hidley on another forum:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley
    To get the rack centered, don't look at anything on the rack. Turn the steering full lock one way. Put a piece of tape on the steering wheel which is vertical. Turn the steering full lock the other way and put a vertical piece of tape on. Turn the steering wheel back to the numerically centered position, so that vertical bisects the angle formed by the two pieces of tape. Now the rack is centered. This is easy and very accurate.
    Subaru steering wheels aren't indexed to the steering shaft, it's just splined all the way around, so I was able to center the rack (positioned the steering wheel with the XXX tape at 12 o'clock, which was mid-way between the other two pieces of tape), then removed the steering wheel and installed it so it was oriented correctly.


    I'm curious if you'll find that your car's spline collar is not indexed. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that one end or the other needs to not be indexed so that you have the ability to correct misalignments.
    '89 GT convertible - not a four-eye
    '82 Zephyr Z7 - future track car

  23. #23
    FEP Super Member mustangxtreme's Avatar
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    Racks can be off center because the tie rod ends are not equally adjusted.
    Dave

    If common sense was common wouldn't it just be sense?

    1983 Capri L T top 5.0 efi aod
    1983 Capri RS Turbo
    1981 Black Magic 400 c6
    93 F-250 351 5sp 4x4

  24. #24

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    In a stock Fox steering system, the steering shaft can only go onto the rack one way and the steering shaft can only go into the column one way. The steering wheel can be adjusted at 0 or 180 degrees on the top of the column.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by mustangxtreme View Post
    Racks can be off center because the tie rod ends are not equally adjusted.
    ... and as in with some time in my car's past... knuckleheads unequally adjust tie rod ends, bottoming one of them all the way down all of it's threads, because they installed the rack off center... and they haven't got the brains gawd gave a dead coconut to realize it, or give a $hit and fix it if they do realize it... lol
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 03-21-2018 at 07:49 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

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