5.4 mod swap or 302

[BlueEyes]

Has anyone swapped a 5.4 into their fox? i just found a 5.4 w/transmission out of a 2000 navigator it has 220xxx kms. just wondering how complicated it would be with wiring etc.. or I could continue to search for a 302 and put in a t5? decisions... My brother is saying i should just put in an Ls so there is that route as well but it is not my first choice as i would like my Ford to be Ford powered

Also when looking for an engine/transmission where do you usually set your max for kms/miles? its hard to find low km 302s in the right year range..

[Killingcivics]

5.4 is a very tall engine also there would be a lot of questions relating to subframe, motor mounts, headers, intake options,etc

Explorer 302 are pretty easy to find and are the newest with better heads. Find a good t5 as well and you are set.

[wraithracing]

First an LS swap or any non Ford engine swap is against the Tenants of FEP. Although it's your car and you can do with it as you want, but any discussion or postings related to said swap will not be allowed.

Now in regards to the 5.4 swap, the Navigator engine is an excellent engine as my wife has owned a 1999 and currently her 2003 model. Both have been very reliable and reasonably powerful, especially for such a large heavy SUV. My wife's current Navigator has over 200,000 miles on it and still running strong. I also have a 2001 Navigator 5.4 DOHC that will be the basis for a Turbo Engine build up for either one of my Foxes or for my Mach 1.

The issues with a 5.4 DOHC in a Fox is the engine is HUGE! It's actually wider than a Boss 429 engine as reference. So this causes issues and headaches when installing in a chassis such as a Fox. You will have to either go to manual brakes or run a Hydro Boost setup for power brakes. The Navigator intake will not clear a stock hood without major lowering of the engine in the chassis, otherwise you will need a different setup. There are adapter plates available now to install the new 2011 up 5.0 intake onto a 5.4 so that is a great option. There are some headers available to install a 5.4 DOHC into a Fox, but be prepared they are all @ $1K othewise you will have to fab your own or make a set of stock exhaust manifolds work for you.

The parts for a 5.4 and the 5.4 DOHC are not cheap, so be prepared to spend some money on repairs and any upgrades. With @ 136,000 miles on the engine you listed it's not necessarily worn out, but I would recommend checking it over carefully. The recommend 5w20 oil for these engines is for fuel economy and not longevity. Also timing chains and tensioners are a major wear item that you want to check on.

The Navigator transmission will not fit the Fox trans tunnel without major work as it's a big transmission. If you want a manual you will have to use one from any of the 96-04 Mustangs, although the T45 is the weakest, and the T56 is the strongest. The 3650 5 speed from late 99-04 is a good transmission as long as you don't get crazy with the power.

There are a couple options on engine wiring, but it will depend on if you stay with the Coil on Plugs or if you go with the coil packs. Then you have the engine computer issues with most likely either going with a Mustang computer to control the engine rather than the Navigator or having to go aftermarket with both the wiring harness and engine controls.

There are other issues in regards to oil pan requirements, front accessory issues, etc. but that hits most of the high points. The swap is a cool one and one I have pondered for many years, but have yet to pull the trigger due to the headaches, etc. I love the way the Ford Mod Motors rev and their overall smooth delivery of power. Throw a Turbo on that and I am sure it will be a screamer as there are plenty of examples of 1000 HP engines out there. The fitting of it in the Fox, plus all the added costs over a regular SBF make me have to think about it. A regular 302, stroked 302, 351W, stroked 351W, or even a 460 swap are generally going to be easier and less costly. So ultimately you have to decide if the headaches are worth it, do you have the fab skills needed, and can you afford all the unique and custom parts that are required for this type of swap.

Good Luck and if you choose to move forward with it, definitely post up a build thread as myself and many others here would be interested in the project.

Trey

[gmatt]

Muscle Mustangs & Fast fords magazine had a project car some years ago called 'project Frightning', blown DOHC 5.4 Lightning motor in a '86 Mustang. The link doesn't have a lot of details. Try researching this car, it was a beast. http://www.mustangandfords.com/proje...rd-mustang-lx/

[BlueEyes]

I think i will be going through with the 5.4 just trying to make a deal with the guy. the car is a project and its worth the thousands that will be spent on it.

thanks for the responses i spent hours on end trying to make a decision

[wraithracing]

I think i will be going through with the 5.4 just trying to make a deal with the guy. the car is a project and its worth the thousands that will be spent on it.

thanks for the responses i spent hours on end trying to make a decision

Sorry if I might have sounded like I was trying to convince you to NOT install the 5.4. That wasn't my intention, just wanted to make sure you were aware of all the issues, headaches, added costs, etc. As long as you know what's up ahead, then the project has a much better chance of being finished.

I wish you the best of luck and definitely post up a build thread as I for one will be interested in how things go. You never know my 5.4 DOHC, just might still end up in one of my Foxes!

Trey

[Mustang-junky]

A 5.4 in a fox will be much more interesting than a another cookie cutter 302. I look forward to the build thread.

Jess

[floodstang]

Installing a 5.4 DOHC into a Fox should be no different than installing one in an SN-95 or New Edge style Mustang. Other than some electrical differences, the mechanical portion should be the same. I would try adapting a 99-01 Cobra EEC harness to the Fox. You would need a Mod-Motor K-member and a Mustang oil pan. A 4.6 DOHC oil pan will work. Like Mustang-junky said, it will be a lot cooler than a 302.

[BlueEyes]

So, the guy never sent me the address the day before i was supposed to pick it up so I will be continuing to look for a 5.4. I will start a build thread once I find an engine that I am happy with.

[Mustang-junky]

I've seen a couple at the U-pull-its around here. I'm not sure how to get the motor out though, almost seems like they would have to come out the bottom, or the radiator support would have to be hacked off. I could get the complete motor fro about $200.

Jess

[conmech]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RslnKvclSGE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5uZxWILDQQ

I know a guy on another site that dropped a Lightning engine into an SN95. The video is not him.

This is his new engine



Going into this:





Now, I understand that you have a DOHC 5.4.........Even MORE of a monster compared to the SOHC 5.4L out of a Lightning. Best of luck.....

[boboli]

I bought a navigator motor from the local pick n pull. To get it out you have to unhook the body from the frame. There was no other way. I hacked the radiator support off, but the intake on them is too tall to get the engine up high enough to clear the front cross member. Since it was at the Jy, i used a packing knife to cut the carpet where the bolts to the body/frame were. There's 8. Then I used the cherry picker to lift the body. I put 2x4's between the body and frame and lowered it back down. Then I was able to get the motor out. A real pain that took 2 days

[Ethyl Cat]

I am about to embark on this with an 87 GT. Going to pick up a 2003 Mach 1 that is hit in the front on Sunday. 28,000 mile car!

Going to use everything in the 87. Cutting the front frame around the shock tower for rust repair. Parts of the firewall for rust/ pedalbox/brake mounting. Floor pan for rust repair.

Using the entire drivetrain and electronics

Using the complete interior

Car has fully adjustable rear suspension/Cooks longtubes and magnaflow full exhaust.

This is going to save a ton on restoration costs and the car will be better than we ever imagined it would be on completion.

Extremely excited to give this a go!



Can't promise a build thread but will try to document things as I go.

Steve

[Mustang-junky]

I bought a navigator motor from the local pick n pull. To get it out you have to unhook the body from the frame. There was no other way. I hacked the radiator support off, but the intake on them is too tall to get the engine up high enough to clear the front cross member. Since it was at the Jy, i used a packing knife to cut the carpet where the bolts to the body/frame were. There's 8. Then I used the cherry picker to lift the body. I put 2x4's between the body and frame and lowered it back down. Then I was able to get the motor out. A real pain that took 2 days

Do you think that you could have pulled the motor without separating the body if you removed the intake?

Jess

[vintageracer]

I bought a navigator motor from the local pick n pull. To get it out you have to unhook the body from the frame. There was no other way. I hacked the radiator support off, but the intake on them is too tall to get the engine up high enough to clear the front cross member. Since it was at the Jy, i used a packing knife to cut the carpet where the bolts to the body/frame were. There's 8. Then I used the cherry picker to lift the body. I put 2x4's between the body and frame and lowered it back down. Then I was able to get the motor out. A real pain that took 2 days

Maybe this is just one of the many reasons why a LS swap is popular in the Foxbody Mustang.

[Travis T]

That Mach 1 is such a shame, but that will be a cool project.

Having said that, I must be too old, but a 302 fits in a fox Mustang so well, I don't really understand wanting something else in one other than just to be different. Last time I had my GT on the road, it had more power than I'll ever use.

[Ethyl Cat]

That Mach 1 is such a shame, but that will be a cool project.

Having said that, I must be too old, but a 302 fits in a fox Mustang so well, I don't really understand wanting something else in one other than just to be different. Last time I had my GT on the road, it had more power than I'll ever use.

Well I need to rebuild the 302 and I figure total cost is about $1200 for the Mach Engine. I would spend that and more on the 302 plus machine work. I need to rebuild the T5, the Mach trans is perfect. Interior, brakes, everything needs attention that the Mach fixes.

I think it will get better MPG per HP as well.

Steve

[Travis T]

In that case, you got a wrecked car that needs a new shell. I can understand why you are doing it, but piecing a swap together without a parts car has to run into some serious money.

[Ethyl Cat]

No doubt. I would not have come close to considering it if I did not have an entire car to strip.

[boboli]

Do you think that you could have pulled the motor without separating the body if you removed the intake?

Jess

I guess you could. I couldn't see a way to get to the back of the motor to take the upper plenum off. Maybe you could get the whole manifold off together. The rear firewall is really close to the manifold. It also comes over the top of the back 4 cylinders.
After giving up the first day, I checked out the internet, and everything pointed to removing the body as the easiest way to get the motor out. Since its in a Jy, cut all the lines you don't need, cut the core off. Unbolt the body , steering shaft, and prop it up. The bolts are kind of tight, but u can get them off in about 1/2 hr. I spent 5 hrs the 1st day, and didn't accomplish the task due to the manifold hitting the firewall.
Maybe you could drop the front suspension. In the end, the body was easier for me to remove

[boboli]

Here's a few pics of the motor with the coyote manifold conversion mocked up on it. I won't be using the fly by wire tb

[wraithracing]

As someone who has done too much repair work on a 97 F150, 99 Navigator, 04 Expedition, and an 03 Navigator I will say that working in the engine bay on these vehicles is not a lot of fun. The 4 valve intake on the Navigator has an upper and lower intake. Removing the upper is a PITA, but doable. I just did this myself on the wife's 03 for injector, spark plug, and COP install. I did an entire engine swap in the 99 with the body removal, but that was back when I had my shop and my 2 post lift. Wouldn't want to consider it otherwise personally. No matter how you do it, these engines are huge compared to a 302 or even a 351W and there isn't much room to work. So if you have large hands or you are not a small person be prepared for cuts, bruises, and becoming a contortionist.

Any swap into a Fox is going to be difficult due to the sheer size of the engine. The other issue is that other than the Cobra R and then the Shelby's there not many good options for a direct swap donor for the 5.4 DOHC. Even the 5.4 Lightening isn't a good candidate as shown by the cut out in the hood of the SN95, the engine is just too tall. All the truck engines use a really tall intake for low RPM torque which won't fit under the hood of a Fox. The Cobra 4.6 DOHC and the the Mach 1 4.6 are great options for a direct swap if you can find one within your budget. Other than that, you will have to do some extra work to make a 5.4 fit and have an intake that works for you as well as the wiring and electronics. Not really any worse than going EFI 5.0 into an original 2.3 or so, but still will take some extra work.

Good Luck!

Trey