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Thread: fuel pressure

  1. #51

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    I think you are on the right track going with the inline 255lph pump, adjustable FPR and a fresh set of injectors. If you can let the car sit, you can send out your injectors for cleaning/balancing, certainly cheaper than new units. The stock units can easily handle 300rwhp with added fuel pressure to support, so no need to upgrade yet. Make sure the power source for the inline pump is robust and is using properly sized wire, so you don't get a drop in voltage at full tilt and therefore reduce the output of the pump! Since the upgrade was done by the PO, you don't know what you have at this time. Keep plugging away and you will get it right.
    Ted
    86 SVO Mustang
    17 Cooper S Clubman ALL4

  2. #52
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    I think getting the fuel problem resolved will be fairly simple. My big concern is if they have everything wired properly. Is there any way to tell if they used the TC harness?
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  3. #53

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    well if its a ford harness going to the pump then it would be from the TC, because the original PC engine would have had a mechanical pump.

  4. #54
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    I am going to start replacing fuel pump next week. Then go from there.
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  5. #55
    FEP Power Member SchoolBoy's Avatar
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    Id hate to see ya go throught the hassel of dropping the tank before checking for fuel pressure at the rail. Did you get to do that yet?
    If you blink at the end of the straight away you'll miss the twisties and what fun would that be!
    1982 Capri RS 5.0L
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  6. #56
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    Yeah. I didn't have any pressure at the rail. I dropped the tank and found it does not have a intank pump. It has an external inline pump. I believe the pump is for a carb application. It is a holley and looks like one of the old black pumps. I am going to pull the pump and get the numbers from it and go from there.
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  7. #57
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    All that I had at the rail was air. I replaced the lines going from the pump to the tank and still nothing. I also found or created a leak where the pickup and float goes in the tank. I will have to fond a gasket for that and it wouldn't hurt to get a new gasket for where the fuel neck goes in the tank. It also looked pretty bad.
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  8. #58
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    I was able to make a little progress today. I pulled the fuel pump and got some pics and numbers from it in hopes you guys might be able to identify it. When I reinstalled it i took a jug of gas and stuck he fuel line directly into and was able to get fuel to the fuel rail. Unfortunately it still did not start. I can still spray starting fluid and it will start so I know it has fire. I believe either the injectors are gummed up or not getting powered. But at least I did make progress. here are the pics of the pump. I also took some pics of the wiring harness and several underhood wiring shots. I am hoping you can tell me if this looks like they swapped the TC harness into the PC or just used the original PC wiring.

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    Now for the wiring pics.
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    In this pic you can see a lot of silicone where the harness comes through the firewall.
    Last edited by 1redjet; 12-27-2014 at 02:02 PM.
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  9. #59
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    Would all these components have been used on a 79 PC? I am hoping they actually replaced the harness with the harness from the 88 TC donor car. Let me know what you think.
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  10. #60
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    As you can see two sets of wires have been spliced. I am not sure what these wires are for. One is a pink wire spliced into a pink wire with a black stripe. The other spliced wire is black with a green stripe spliced into a yellow with a black stripe.
    Last edited by 1redjet; 12-27-2014 at 02:10 PM.
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  11. #61

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    this is a guess, but most fuel injected pumps dont have barbed ends for rubber hoses, they use steel flared lines, because on the suction side pulling 30-40 psi, the hose would collapse, and on the side that goes to the engine the hose would expand IF the hose even stayed on the barb at that pressure, but again thats just my assumption.

  12. #62
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    I looked at the 255 walbro pumps that are used in efi conversions and they are made the same way.
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  13. #63
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    What is the easiest way to see if my injectors are firing? I don't have anyone to help me so it is a little difficult to be under the hood and turning the key.
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1redjet View Post
    What is the easiest way to see if my injectors are firing? I don't have anyone to help me so it is a little difficult to be under the hood and turning the key.
    i seen a youtube video of a guy putting a piece of hose over the top of the injector to take place of a fuel line, and using a 9v battery to "fire" them.

  15. #65
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    Have to look that up. I really just want to find out if the injectors are getting power to them. I plan on replacing the injectors and rails anyways. Really just want to see if they are getting power to them.
    Last edited by 1redjet; 12-27-2014 at 05:04 PM.
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  16. #66

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    If you turn the distributor, the computer will fire the injectors somewhere in the rotation. You could pull the distributor from the motor and turn the gear by hand. Just make sure you put it back in correctly. The harder way would be to remove the timing belt

  17. #67
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    Do i just turn the key switch on and turn the distributor?
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  18. #68

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    you can use a set of noid lights, harbor freight sells them, or just use a led or small lamp with 2 wires coming off it, plug it into the harness connector, and either crank the engine or spin the dist, the light should be flashing on and off showing the voltage going to the injector. that only shows half the possible problem, even if they are getting voltage, they may not spray fuel due to clogging

  19. #69
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    Thanks. If I can determine that they are pulsing that may help me rule out computer issues. Then I can clean,rebuild or replace the injectors.
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  20. #70

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    If you have a parts store near you that rents tools, they may have noid lights. That way you do not have to buy them, if you don't want to.
    With the key on, turning the distributor, should fire the injectors. With the noid lights, you could just crank the motor and watch for the lights to flash. Otherwise, pull the distributor and turn the gear. Listen for the injectors to click

  21. #71
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    I am going to see if advanced auto has them for sale or rent. Otherwise I will just turn the distributor. Thanks for the info. I am trying to find a nice aftermarket or custom fuel rail but have not had any luck so far. I am wanting to change the rail,get new injectors add a fpr and a pressure gauge.
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  22. #72
    FEP Power Member SchoolBoy's Avatar
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    The only aftermarket rail was made by joeturbo they come up on ebay every now and then. As for the injectors just send them to witchhunter.com for a cleaning he did mine.Name:  FuelRail1.jpg
Views: 62
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    If you blink at the end of the straight away you'll miss the twisties and what fun would that be!
    1982 Capri RS 5.0L
    Suspension Build http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...tion-and-Build
    1985 SVO 2A & leather. Stolen & Destroyed 2022
    Motor Build http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=63505
    Dyno stats and exhaust install http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...Dyno-d-finally
    My FMIC build http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-amp-D-project
    Electronic boost controller and bypass valve
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-Bypass-Valve
    Opperation SVO Tunes http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...51#post1148551

  23. #73
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    Good looking rail. I hope I can locate them.
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

  24. #74

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    Don't take this the wrong way, but all the aftermarket parts in the world mean a thing if the car won't start. I understand the temptation, but stick to the basics. Get it running first as close to stock as you can, plenty of time to worry about upgrades later.

    The second pic in reply #59 shows what looks to be the IRCM (integrated relay control module) which would be a 87-88 TC part, or later 4cyl Fox Mustang component, so it's fairly likely they used the late TC harness. That's not to say that they wired it into the car properly. Looks like they used the hydraulic clutch setup from the TC too. Nothing wrong with that either, just interesting.

    Couldn't tell you which fuel pump that is, neither of the stamped codes in the body come up with a Google search or match a Holley part number that I can find. Any other markings that aren't visible in the pic? I can tell you the hose clamp that's visible isn't intended for the high pressure of EFI. An EFI fuel system has to have high pressure spec hose and clamps. If that was on the car, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to double check the entire fuel system, but it probably wouldn't keep it from running at all.

    Back on the first page I mentioned that you can just loosen the distributor hold down clamp and turn the distributor with the key in the run position and listen for the injectors clicking on/off, you should also hear the fuel pump kick on at the same time since the pickup in the distributor tells the computer the engine is running and activates the pump. No need to pull the distributor completely, just turn the body more than 45* and you'll hear it. If the injectors click and the pump runs, it's not a wiring problem, at least not a wiring problem in those two circuits. If you can't hear the click, you can use a test light or DVOM, and check for ~12V+ at the injector plugs pulsing on/off when you turn the distributor. You can check the injectors for an electronic failure with a DVOM set to ohms, between the two terminals of the injector you should get a reading of the resistance. All four should be pretty closely matched, abnormally high may indicate an open coil, abnormally low could be a short, either condition requires replacing the injector. Are the injectors even the correct brown Ford injectors for the application?

    You can also hot-wire the fuel pump by jumping one of the computer test connector to ground or power. See the diagram of the test connector on this page, and the note below the bottom right terminal. http://turbotbird.com/techinfo/Retri...stic_codes.htm

    If the car will start on starting fluid, or carb cleaner, etc then you're on the right track looking at the fuel system. You just need to start at one end or the other and methodically work your way to the other end.
    1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project

  25. #75
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    I agree about aftermarket parts comment. I am going to go ahead and replace the fuel pump with the correct efi pump. I am going turn the distributor and see if I can hear the injectors click. Can I unhook the fuel pump so I can hear the injectors better?
    79 pace car 2.3 efi turbo
    02 GT
    88 turbo coupe (sold)
    81 hatch 351 Cleveland (sold)
    86 GT (sold)
    91 GT Supercharged 347 Stroker (sold)

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