Scrapped Foureyes at a Fox Butcher.

[Barb1982]

[QUOTE=Fenderflare;1687416]It is a free country.
The owners of the clubhouse are free to make the rules.
We are free to accept and join or reject and walk away.
Each of us are free to start our own club and free to set our own rules.

From the ABOUT US section:


Tenets of FEP
by
evlgt85

Published on 06-28-2013 02:25 PM


This is a brief summary of the major principles on which FourEyedPride (FEP) is based. More in-depth discussion of these principles can be found on the message board and soon in a series of editorials written by FEP Administration.

FEP promotes the preservation of the identity of each and every 79-86 Mustang and Capri. Many modifications can be done to a vehicle without changing its identity. This means we believe a Capri should look like a Capri, an EFI 2.3 turbocharged car should retain its turbo four, an early Fox Mustang should not be made to look like a later Fox Mustang, and Ford powerplants should reside between the shock towers.

FEP actively discourages and condemns the parting out and willful destruction of complete, running, and/or easily repaired cars. As these cars continue to disappear, our chances for the aftermarket to take on the reproduction of badly needed parts will continue to decline.

FEP welcomes owners and enthusiasts of bone stock base models as well as wildly modified race cars. We are neither a group consisting solely of sticklers for factory correct restorations nor powertrain elitists.

FEP does not condone bumper cover swaps making later (87-93/aero nose) appear to be 86 and earlier models, just as we do not accept earlier cars made to look like 87-later models. These swaps do not keep 79-86 cars on the road, and to accept swaps in one direction and not the other would be hypocritical as well as counter-productive. They often take hard-to-find parts out of the pool of availability for cars in need of them. We are about more than just the bumper covers. We are about the cars from this particular era of Fox.

FEP welcomes owners of all early Fox models, and we intend to include them in our coverage. These cars are: 78-83 Fairmont & Zephyr, 83-86 LTD & Marquis, 80-88 Thunderbird & Cougar, 82-87 Continental, 84-92 Mark VII and 81-82 Granada. Enthusiasts who do not own an early Fox are also welcome.

The opinions of FEP members do not necessarily express the official stance of FEP on various issues. Only FEP Administration speaks for FEP.

While we do not expect every member of FEP to agree with these and other tenets supported by FEP, we do expect these tenets to be respected by all who participate on our forums.[/QUOTE

[gmatt]

FWIW, I browse CL all the time, and the particular seller/scrapper who is the subject of this discussion has in the last year offered up several complete cars for sale. I also hate seeing good cars parted out, so I hope someone bought them.

[Travis T]

Well that is at least a positive.

[FM2NOTCH]

probably a decent guy doing what we all do......... try to SURVIVE, LOL

[eric5oh]

I had the pace car. It was a basket case. More rust than metal. Most of the pieces I had from it went to a good home. I know the black interior pieces went to an FEP member. He had a red 79 Cobra I posted about as well. Same story, more rust than metal. The Cobra in the pic must be a new arrival, I haven't spoken to him in a couple years at least. He has a shady reputation around the midwest, he's banned here on FEP, and a few local Mustang sites. He has spies on here, so he knows what is being said about him. People still somehow choose to do business with him, so he lives on.

[eric5oh]

FWIW, I browse CL all the time, and the particular seller/scrapper who is the subject of this discussion has in the last year offered up several complete cars for sale. I also hate seeing good cars parted out, so I hope someone bought them.

Offering them up at a REASONABLE price, no. That's when they get hacked up. It's all about the money, not the restoration or preservation, but that's his business.

[mustangmania]

Can't save them all. Some are sacrificed so there live. It would be nice to squirrel them all away but then you'd be called a hoarder. You could just let it sit in your yard to rot, then you'd be called stubborn if you don't give it away to another person that will supposedly restore it. Or you sell it to the highest bidder and let them do as they please and hope for the best. In this case they are bought to keep others alive.

I really have to agree with you. Can't save them all. Sooner or later, some have to be sacrificed so others can live. It's been done with every other collector car way before Foxes came along. To part out a perfectly good, rust-free, running/driving car with no problems just to make money, I understand, that's bad. But rusty cars are not economically worth repairing.

[mustangmania]

Am I missing something here? So, it is frowned down upon to buy a car from a willing seller and part it out? Who is the person in charge to make that determination that a car is too good part out therefore that establishment is deemed bad? I know I can't afford to buy them up, so are any of the people that frown down on this establishment in the position to do so? If not then are these cars suppose to rot away so no parts are usable by someone trying to save one?

And when one is bought and parted, then yes, the parts go on a car that a owner is using so yes, one sacrificed so another can move on. No one likes to see cars they are passionate about being parted. You can either go out and buy them up yourself or turn your head. As far as pricing, we all know it comes down to supply and demand. We don't know their overhead and there is no authority to say what prices should and should not be. Just like flipping a car. Just because someone got it for one price does not mean that someone cannot try to get another. Does not make them a bad person it just makes them a business person. Heck, I've gotten some great deals from people wanting to just get rid of stuff and I've made money cause I have the time to market it. Just because I buy something for a good deal does not mean that the next person is intitled to the same deal no matter what work was put into it.

And why remove the name? Maybe someone here would like to call the guy to inquire on the car or any other projects they may have. Or may need parts and not mind paying the prices. Isent the point of the site to help owners?

I really have to agree with Damon23 here. I started restoring cars in the 70's before Foxes were even made. The same thing went on with 50's and 60's cars. As much as I'd like to see every car saved, it's not possible economically and time efficiently. It's the circle of car life so-to-speak. Then there is the whole American free-enterprise thing and the right to run a business that comes into play, but since it's political, I'll leave it alone. But please don't get me wrong, I am not advocating parting out complete driveable cars.

There is also the economics of it. These cars are not that collectible yet. I bought my 1981 Hatch Ghia, rust-free, t-tops for $3600 delivered from California. I have about $5500 into it. I tried selling it for 4+ months. I couldn't even get $3500 for it. So I decided to change the colors. I did get some grief here, but at the end of the day, economically, it's the best thing for me. I'd love to keep the car the way it is so all can look and admire it's originality, but I'm not a museum nor am I rich (I live in Beverly Hills, Michigan, not California ).

I bought an 82 GT 'parts' car for the rear end and black interior. The car sat outside for 4 years and the engine was seized, some water damage to the interior. Rust in the floorboards, quarters, and around the sunroof. The rust was probably repairable in some people's eyes. But economically, it takes a lot a money to restore a car, weather it's a Fox Body, Shelby, Cuda, truck, whatever. But why would someone restore this car, when they could have bought that nice silver T-Top 82 GT in Connecticut a while back for under $10k. Now if this was a Boss, or Shelby, or K-code, it's a no-brainer.

So I stripped it and gave away the shell. I'm using many parts on my car and trying to sell the rest at reasonable prices to others. I also gave a guy both front fenders for the use of his engine hoist.

[sowaxeman]

So just going to ask a simple question on this topic regarding "The Butcher". The admins remove his contact info because it goes against the principals of club....when in fact he may actually have some savable cars that some of us may try to buy. Or has some valuable parts to some of us that we could use for projects. His info gets removed so we don't have that chance anymore. If that Cobra is truly not savable....I'd sure like to inquire about that front air-dam

HOWEVER....we have an FYI section for parts, that a LARGE percentage of them are from donor/scrapped cars which is kind of against that same principal that caused the guys info to pulled in this add? Sure there is a good amount of NOS and repop parts but most were "parted".

I'm not trying to be an antagonist and certainly see both sides of this debate. I just think there is more good that could come out of us knowing where this butcher is to try to save some cars or get some needed parts from him....regardless if his posted prices are fair or not.

[FoxChassis]

It is very difficult to prove where parts come from that are posted in FYI. If we have proof the FYI ad(s) will be deleted. It has been done before.

It is very easy to prove where parts come from from this butcher. Their reputation on the Interwebs is infamous....for parting out "good" cars, and claiming parts they're selling are in "great" shape but when they arrive they're actually crappy, dirty, broken parts, and for calling potential buyer's family tree into question when they ask about a part for sale, and telling paying buyer's to sod off when they complain about getting said crappy parts, and threatening to play games with credit card companies when a claim has been started, etc. etc. That kind of ilk has no place on FEP.

[sowaxeman]

Ah...gotcha. That kind of information early on in this thread would have gone a long way....I would have never questioned :-)

[vascj]

Some of us read through that guy right from the start.

glad that turned out good for all involved, except for the people that felt used after it was over with, not me personally but several felt that way.

[eric5oh]

I'm sure the air dam would cost more than the price of a nos or repop...

[jadigen]

i don't know. i see the same complaint in the mopar world all the time, i can see and understand the point some have about saving the cars but at the same time the ones who usually cry the loudest never buy and save these cars. everyone wants to save these cars right up to the point that it required them to pull the cash out of their pocket to buy the cars.


my opinion on it is if it bothers you so much then do all the leg work and beat the guy to the cars. not as easy as it sounds.. have to be all over the newspapers and internet sites first thing. see that ad first and most important be at the car first with cash and a way to get it home.

at least the cars are being parted and the parts (over priced or not) are being used to save other cars. cars could have just been crushed along with all its parts.

[82stangracer]

Very sad to see the Cobra....Attachment 76673

Boy, did you open a can of worms....... Just kidding with ya. I know you were probably just sharing cars you came across.

Name and location of butcher removed from thread title. Don't ask. Don't tell. Their business is cutting up good Foxes, many of which could be put on the road with little to no work, for profit. They will not be allowed free advertising on FEP.

Never thought of it that way, but you got a point.

It is a free country.
The owners of the clubhouse are free to make the rules.
We are free to accept and join or reject and walk away.
Each of us are free to start our own club and free to set our own rules.

From the ABOUT US section:


Tenets of FEP
by
evlgt85

Published on 06-28-2013 02:25 PM


This is a brief summary of the major principles on which FourEyedPride (FEP) is based. More in-depth discussion of these principles can be found on the message board and soon in a series of editorials written by FEP Administration.

FEP promotes the preservation of the identity of each and every 79-86 Mustang and Capri. Many modifications can be done to a vehicle without changing its identity. This means we believe a Capri should look like a Capri, an EFI 2.3 turbocharged car should retain its turbo four, an early Fox Mustang should not be made to look like a later Fox Mustang, and Ford powerplants should reside between the shock towers.

FEP actively discourages and condemns the parting out and willful destruction of complete, running, and/or easily repaired cars. As these cars continue to disappear, our chances for the aftermarket to take on the reproduction of badly needed parts will continue to decline.

FEP welcomes owners and enthusiasts of bone stock base models as well as wildly modified race cars. We are neither a group consisting solely of sticklers for factory correct restorations nor powertrain elitists.

FEP does not condone bumper cover swaps making later (87-93/aero nose) appear to be 86 and earlier models, just as we do not accept earlier cars made to look like 87-later models. These swaps do not keep 79-86 cars on the road, and to accept swaps in one direction and not the other would be hypocritical as well as counter-productive. They often take hard-to-find parts out of the pool of availability for cars in need of them. We are about more than just the bumper covers. We are about the cars from this particular era of Fox.

FEP welcomes owners of all early Fox models, and we intend to include them in our coverage. These cars are: 78-83 Fairmont & Zephyr, 83-86 LTD & Marquis, 80-88 Thunderbird & Cougar, 82-87 Continental, 84-92 Mark VII and 81-82 Granada. Enthusiasts who do not own an early Fox are also welcome.

The opinions of FEP members do not necessarily express the official stance of FEP on various issues. Only FEP Administration speaks for FEP.

While we do not expect every member of FEP to agree with these and other tenets supported by FEP, we do expect these tenets to be respected by all who participate on our forums.

Exactly!!!!!

When I see threads like this with everyone whining, complaining, and arguing it makes me shake my head because people are wasting their time that could be spent learning, or helping someone else on here. This is a GREAT site and it is what it is, the rules are what they are. No since in complaining or trying to change something you can't. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if you disagree or don't like it then go find a site you do. Some may have cars they have that they can't get titles for and have know choice but to part out, and some people buy perfectly good cars with titles cheap just to cut up and make money. What ever the case may be, FEP allows what it wants to because it its their site to do so.

[Damon23]

i don't know. i see the same complaint in the mopar world all the time, i can see and understand the point some have about saving the cars but at the same time the ones who usually cry the loudest never buy and save these cars. everyone wants to save these cars right up to the point that it required them to pull the cash out of their pocket to buy the cars.

This right here could not be further from the truth. But, that is what you get on the internet. "If you weren't so far away" or "She'd kill me" and the likes. House rules are house rules though as odd as they may seem. I can see being about the preservation of the cars but calling a buisness/person a butcher cause they sell parts off a car for prices they don't like just seems wrong. I can see if this particular individual has done wrong by people but by doing wrong is parting a car that only has been seen on the internet or not getting the price that they want to pay is considered doing wrong then there is a problem not with the business. Luckily I don't buy restoration projects and most stuff I need is reproduced or I can repair so I don't have to deal with guys like this.