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  1. #76
    FEP Senior Member droopie85gt's Avatar
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    I am not sure what MSD recommends, but most EFI setups I have seen have said to keep ignition and EFI harness separate. I don't know if that red msd box mounted to apron is part of the ignition or EFI, but I thought I'd point it out. I had a problem with RFI screwing up the idle on my Holley C950 system when I first installed it. The source wasn't the ignition, but in my case, was the fact the Innovate LC-1 grounds were tied together with the EFI ground and the O2 sensor heater is evidently pretty electrically 'noisy'.
    Last edited by droopie85gt; 09-10-2015 at 02:52 PM. Reason: readin and writin
    1985 GT, Sunroof, 5 Lug, Rear Discs, 01 Graphite Bullets, 88 forged piston shortblock, 2.02/1.60 Alum heads, Weiand Stealth, Holley C950 TBI, BBK Long tubes

  2. #77
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    I'll double check the instructions, but I read through all of them and don't recall anything about keeping things separated. The small red box is just the power module for the EFI, the ECU is actually integral to the throttle body as are all the sensors and sensor leads. The EFI actually integrates with the MSD ignition to control the timing and thus the ignition module connects into the EFI. The distributor has no vacuum advance and the mechanical advance mechanism is removed and locked out. That's the main reason I ended up choosing the MSD system over the Holley and others.

  3. #78

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    That throttle body looks cool as hell!
    '88 Mustang GT convertible, T5, 3.08:1 gears. 5.0 Explobra Jet: A9L Mass Air conversion, Fenderwell Mac cold air intake, 70mm MAF meter = 4.6 T-Bird/Cougar housing + '95 Mustang F2VF-12B579-A1A sensor, aftermarket 70mm throttle body and spacer, Explorer intakes, GT40P heads with Alex's Parts springs and drilled for thermactor, Crane F3ZE-6529-AB 1.7 "Cobra" roller rockers, Ford Racing P50 headers, Mac H-pipe, Magnaflow catback, Walbro 190 LPH fuel pump, UPR firewall adjuster and quadrant with Ford OEM cable, 3G conversion ('95 Mustang V6), Taurus fan, rolled on Rustoleum gloss white paint...
    Past Four Eyes: Red well optioned '82 GT 5.0, Black T-top '81 Capri Black Magic 3.3L 4 speed, Black T-top '84 Capri RS 5.0 5 speed.Over 200,000 miles driven in Four Eyes, and over 350,000 in Fox Body cars.

  4. #79
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grabbergreen84 View Post
    That throttle body looks cool as hell!
    Not the reason I chose to go with it, but it is a bonus. Mainly I wanted the ease of tuning rather than messing with a carb. This unit is self tuning too so no need to mess with computer mapping either, after the basic setup it learns as you drive. I plan to cap it off with a Spectre cold air intake/filter set up so it should still be visible. Just have to figure out if I can get that on past the MM strut tower brace.

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  5. #80

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    BMW,

    In post 42, you have a picture of the clutch m/c and bellcrank assembly mounted on the firewall. How did this work out? In the photo the pushrod definitely goes into the m/c at a significant angle. Did you have all of the spacers correctly installed?

    I'm asking as we have a customer that had a lot of trouble with this assembly and American Powertrain told him to cut some of the spacers with a hacksaw or some such nonsense.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  6. #81

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    Double post.
    Last edited by Jack Hidley; 09-13-2015 at 05:16 PM.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  7. #82
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    The MC works fine as it is set up. There is no real way to change the pushrod angle, it's just the way the assembly fits together. It does not seem to have any issue with function as far as I can tell at this point. What I did have to modify was the slave cylinder mounting. In the photo I had installed it with the spacer collar and stud as they describe, however I found that it placed the bearing too close to get the right clearance they specify. I ended up making my own stud to fit in the bearing retainer (which is the method they give for some applications except they did not supply a stud that would fit my situation) and just used the thin metal shims to get the clearance correct. I think the issue was due to the Ford Motorsports steel bearing retainer which has a shoulder on the aluminum flange that the steel bearing sleeve is pressed into, the original all aluminum retainer would have worked with the slave cylinder spacer as designed as it did not have that shoulder. I haven't had the car running yet to actually verify the clutch function, but it does seem to operate correctly as far as I can tell so far.

  8. #83
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    I've been getting a few hours work in on the car lately as I had a week of vacation time, actually had three weeks, but we did a little traveling first. I've managed to get the wiring about 90% done now; I need to finish up the alternator connections when the new 3g one I ordered in from RockAuto arrives. I have a Painless wiring kit coming in for that also. I opted for the kit as I just seemed easier than gathering up the needed items separately. I have more than a few hours time invested in crimping terminals and such to tie all the new wiring in with proper connectors and blending the whole lot into the original harnesses. I stripped out all the unnecessary wires that were no longer needed with the new instruments and the new ignition and EFI. I ended up with quite a rats nest of wires and plugs that I removed. I made up a battery cable for the positive to the starter from the battery and a jumper from the starter to the power block. I am using a hi torque starter, so I had no need for the fender mounted solenoid, but I did want the power distribution and matching grounding blocks to make the wiring easier in its place.

    I also finished up all the fuel lines and connections to the fuel tank and got the pump and filters mounted in a wired up at the rear. I spent a bit more time working on the exhaust this afternoon, but need to get a set of flanges to do the muffler connections as I can't get the tail pipes up over the axle and past the panhard bar with the last bend tacked on. I'll have to cut that last bend off again and put in the flange. Good thing I am only tacking it all so far. A ball flange connection will also give me a bit of flexibility in lining everything up too. Once I have it all fitted, I'll need to fully weld all the joints, and there are a few.

    I also picked up some body panels yesterday from the Mustang Shop. They were reducing some excess inventory and had the trunk lid and fenders on sale. Even though I won't need them for a while yet, I figured I may as well save a few bucks and grab them now. I got an even better deal on the one fender as it had a minor bit of damage to it, nothing to difficult to fix and I'll need to do a bit of work on it anyway to weld over the antenna holes as I won't need one since I am not putting a radio in the car. I went with the 91-93 fenders since I have the 1 1/2" forward offset on the front control arms and that causes some clearance issues with the fender. I will still probably have to do a bit of extra work to make it all clear sufficiently and will have to figure out how to make the fender extensions work too. But that's a long way off yet.

    If all goes well, I should be ready to fire this beast up before too much longer.

  9. #84
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    Sounds like you have been busy Ed! What was wrong with the panels and the trunk lid on your car? The 79s have a flatter edge to the lid from the later ones. I know I guy who has two 79's that might need a spare.

    Did you solve the rear bumper cover issue?

  10. #85

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    If you install a high torque mini starter, you will still need to use the power relay mounted on the inner fender. If you don't, the starter motor will continue to run for a second or two after the key is released during cranking. You can replace it with a much smaller current relay, but there must still be a relay inline with the starters trigger wire.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  11. #86
    Mike1157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
    If you install a high torque mini starter, you will still need to use the power relay mounted on the inner fender. If you don't, the starter motor will continue to run for a second or two after the key is released during cranking. You can replace it with a much smaller current relay, but there must still be a relay inline with the starters trigger wire.
    ^^^What he said.
    While it makes sense that you'd only need a key switched trigger wire to activate the internal relay, the fact of the matter is that internal solenoid in the mini starter draws a lot of current. I've had to use a 4 pin 30 amp relay on the last several mini starters to even get the thing to engage the starter drive when the key is turned, and found out the hard way on my first one that Jack is right,......the starter will not disengage immediately when only relying on a single wire to drive that solenoid.

  12. #87
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    Sounds like you have been busy Ed! What was wrong with the panels and the trunk lid on your car? The 79s have a flatter edge to the lid from the later ones. I know I guy who has two 79's that might need a spare.

    Did you solve the rear bumper cover issue?
    The main reason I needed a trunk lid was not having the original any more. It had a fair bit of rust in the rear edge in the seams so it was trashed way back when I took the car apart. Same with the front fenders and hood (which I found a new one a while ago). Still haven't done any more with the rear bumper cover, but it does seem to be losing a bit of the warpage it incurred in storage. I have a feeling one I get it attached properly to the car and a bumper under it, it should be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
    If you install a high torque mini starter, you will still need to use the power relay mounted on the inner fender. If you don't, the starter motor will continue to run for a second or two after the key is released during cranking. You can replace it with a much smaller current relay, but there must still be a relay inline with the starters trigger wire.
    Good to know on that, I still haven't finished connecting the start circuit to the starter and can easily add a relay in the line. I even have an extra 40A relay and socket I can use for that.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Rider View Post
    Still haven't done any more with the rear bumper cover, but it does seem to be losing a bit of the warpage it incurred in storage. I have a feeling one I get it attached properly to the car and a bumper under it, it should be fine.
    I have located a spare so if you need it we can make arrangements.

  14. #89
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    I have located a spare so if you need it we can make arrangements.
    Good to know. I don't suppose any of your sources have a spare aluminum rear bumper

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Rider View Post
    Good to know. I don't suppose any of your sources have a spare aluminum rear bumper
    Haha, you'd be on the waiting list behind me! I've never seen one in person in my JY travels (in the last three years anyways), that's for sure.

  16. #91
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    I keep making more progress towards bringing the engine to life. I have all the wiring under the hood done now and have battery cables made and even have the battery installed in the trunk, but not connected yet.

    I finished up the exhaust today, or at least mostly. I will need to tweak the muffler positioning and fabricate some proper hangers. For now I just have the pipes and mufflers tied up with mechanics wire (kinda ghetto, but it's temporary). here is the system with all the welding done. I had to rework the X pipe to fit around the MM torque arm as I went with their racing version which they specifically note this needs to be done, so no surprise there. The rest of the pipes were cobbled up from parts. i used pre bent sections, some bits of straight pipe and some flanges to custom fit those. I must say that getting 2.5" pipe up over the rear axle with all that suspension stuff in the way was a tight fit. I did have a pair of 2011 GT factory mufflers I was planning to use, but decided they were too large and too heavy, so I went with a pair of Flowmaster 40 series instead. Once I get to finishing up the mufflers, I will use a pair of chrome tips to exit out through the rear valance.

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    I also got my plugs and wires done today, I ended up using an MSD universal wire set and fitting them individually myself since none of the pre-made kits really would work properly. The plugs were not an in stock item either as they are the 18mm thread old style plugs, but in an irridium plug to work with the MSD ignition.

    Lastly, I am getting all the fluids into the car, and discovered a minor antifreeze leak on the engine. I've torn the front cover off as it appeared to be coming from there, but in hindsight, it looks like it may just have been the thermostat housing and was just dripping down along the timing cover. Not a huge issue, I'll get it redone and sealed up. I will need to find a better thermostat housing though as the one I got just seems to be poorly made and does not fit correctly at the bypass outlet which is why it was leaking. That will be tomorrows errand; I needed to go back to PnP anyway to rob some more items off an 81 Capri that is there.
    Last edited by BMW Rider; 03-16-2017 at 07:33 PM.

  17. #92
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Yesterday I got the final steps completed and powered the car up for the first time. I had my wife assisst me to finish bleeding out the brakes, the vacuum bleeder just doesn't quite pull the last bubbles out of the calipers, but it did get the majority of the system primed. I powered it on and got the MSD Atomic EFI initial settings done, but encountered a couple snags that needed to be sorted before I could fire the beast up. Those items were sorted out this morning and before lunch time I had it running.

    I had to fix a connection in the wiring harness for the oil pressure gauge as it was not initiallizing as it was supposed to. I found one connector that the wire had pulled out of the crimp; the wires are very fine and did not want to crimp in securely so i added a bit of solder to all those terminals. I really did not want to fire up a new engine without a functioning gauge.

    Next issue that cropped up was the fact that the ignition and EFI were not getting power when cranking. After perusing the wiring charts again, I noted that the ignition power feed indeed did not get power in the start position. I did a bit of head scratching and thinking over options; I couldn't just tie into the starter feed as the ignition power would then backfeed into that. A diode would stop that, but that seemed compliocated. Instead I checked at the ignition switch and determined there was a second terminal that was fed power in the start position. I had removed that wire since it was for function I was not in need of, so I found the terminal and pigtail of wire and spliced it into the ignition wire. Problem solved, I now had power under cranking.

    I also had to revisit the initial timing setting of the distributor as on the first attempts to fire it up the timing seemed to be far too retarded. I went back over that and advanced it to where it would run and even then it was still off once I got the light on it. It took a bit of fiddling to get the parameters sorted to keep the engine idiling, but it seems to be pretty steady now. The EFI is self programming as it learns, so it will hopefully get even better once I can finally drive it. I did roll it out for a short run in the alley though. She's going to be a beast to drive for sure, I'm going to have to work on my leg muscles for that clutch, it's a heavy push.

    https://youtu.be/ItocHFkv0U0
    Last edited by BMW Rider; 10-19-2015 at 04:03 PM.

  18. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Rider View Post
    I will need to find a better thermostat housing though as the one I got just seems to be poorly made and does not fit correctly at the bypass outlet which is why it was leaking.
    All aftermarket thermostat housings seem to be like that. You could probably get away with milling the mating surface perfectly flat. Don't think I've ever heard of anyone doing that.

    Another idea which is probably easier, is to machine the housing (but maybe not the manifold if you can get away with it) to accept O-rings!

    It sounds like you'll go get a genuine Ford housing at the yard? Only way to fly!
    '88 Mustang GT convertible, T5, 3.08:1 gears. 5.0 Explobra Jet: A9L Mass Air conversion, Fenderwell Mac cold air intake, 70mm MAF meter = 4.6 T-Bird/Cougar housing + '95 Mustang F2VF-12B579-A1A sensor, aftermarket 70mm throttle body and spacer, Explorer intakes, GT40P heads with Alex's Parts springs and drilled for thermactor, Crane F3ZE-6529-AB 1.7 "Cobra" roller rockers, Ford Racing P50 headers, Mac H-pipe, Magnaflow catback, Walbro 190 LPH fuel pump, UPR firewall adjuster and quadrant with Ford OEM cable, 3G conversion ('95 Mustang V6), Taurus fan, rolled on Rustoleum gloss white paint...
    Past Four Eyes: Red well optioned '82 GT 5.0, Black T-top '81 Capri Black Magic 3.3L 4 speed, Black T-top '84 Capri RS 5.0 5 speed.Over 200,000 miles driven in Four Eyes, and over 350,000 in Fox Body cars.

  19. #94
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grabbergreen84 View Post
    All aftermarket thermostat housings seem to be like that. You could probably get away with milling the mating surface perfectly flat. Don't think I've ever heard of anyone doing that.

    Another idea which is probably easier, is to machine the housing (but maybe not the manifold if you can get away with it) to accept O-rings!

    It sounds like you'll go get a genuine Ford housing at the yard? Only way to fly!
    It wasn't that the mating surface was bad, it was nice and flat and I did a bit of lapping on a sheet of sandpaper to verify that. The problem was that the bypass hole in the housing was set too far outward and was so large that it was nearly to the edge of the mating surface on the manifold. That left only about a sixteenth of an inch of gasket to seal which was insufficient. The one I have now is Ford original

  20. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Rider View Post
    The problem was that the bypass hole in the housing was set too far outward and was so large that it was nearly to the edge of the mating surface on the manifold. That left only about a sixteenth of an inch of gasket to seal which was insufficient.
    O-ring that baby!


    The one I have now is Ford original
    Factory Ford is pretty much always best.
    '88 Mustang GT convertible, T5, 3.08:1 gears. 5.0 Explobra Jet: A9L Mass Air conversion, Fenderwell Mac cold air intake, 70mm MAF meter = 4.6 T-Bird/Cougar housing + '95 Mustang F2VF-12B579-A1A sensor, aftermarket 70mm throttle body and spacer, Explorer intakes, GT40P heads with Alex's Parts springs and drilled for thermactor, Crane F3ZE-6529-AB 1.7 "Cobra" roller rockers, Ford Racing P50 headers, Mac H-pipe, Magnaflow catback, Walbro 190 LPH fuel pump, UPR firewall adjuster and quadrant with Ford OEM cable, 3G conversion ('95 Mustang V6), Taurus fan, rolled on Rustoleum gloss white paint...
    Past Four Eyes: Red well optioned '82 GT 5.0, Black T-top '81 Capri Black Magic 3.3L 4 speed, Black T-top '84 Capri RS 5.0 5 speed.Over 200,000 miles driven in Four Eyes, and over 350,000 in Fox Body cars.

  21. #96
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    The last two weeks I've been getting some of the trunk and interior items fixed up. I pulled the fuel cell and battery out, cleaned up the entire trunk and then painted it. I chose to try the patter trunk paint for the heck of it, seems to have worked out fine. The tank and battery are back in and the wires run to the back of the car which let me connect the fuel gauge now. I also needed to get the spring back on the trunk hinges and that meant I needed to find a way to keep them down so the garage door won't hit them when the car is up on the lift. I figured the easiest way to do that was to put the trunk lid on too.

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    The next item was to fabricate the aluminum bulkhead to seal off the trunk. It took a couple days of templating and sheet metal work to get that done up. I sealed the edges and the roll cage tubes with fire stop caulk, the gaps behind the quarter panels I sealed off with fire proof expanding foam.

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    I also pulled the seats out to give me better access to the rear of the car which also allowed me to get the shoulder harness bar welded into the cage. Now the shoulder straps are properly supported behind the seats. I still needed to modify the passenger seat frame as well to move it inward to clear the roll cage brace.

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    Today I spent working on the air vents in the dash getting them connected and the cables secured. I also finished up the heater controls since I'd managed to get some better cables to work with. The original ones had the securing tabs broken and would not stay in place. I shortened the new cables to fit since the heater controls are closer to the heater than original.
    Last edited by BMW Rider; 03-16-2017 at 07:36 PM.

  22. #97
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Now that the mechanical and electrical is mainly sorted, I've started getting some of the body assembled. Last week I pulled the passenger door out of the attic storage and stripped it down. I was debating using HO Fibretrends doors on the car for some weight savings, they are 25 lbs lighter each than the stock steel doors. However a bit of researching the rule books and reading some review by others who have used them I decided It was not really going to save me any weight afterall. To use lightened doors or fiberglass doors without side impact reinforcement in the doors, I would have to add more door bars to my cage and that would make access/egress more difficult plus it would have added back pretty much any weight savings gained from the doors. So, with that decided, I got to work on the door, cleaned up the rust on the bottom seam and did a little repair patch to the inner panel. The rest of the seam was pretty clean, a bit of rust convertor and it was good. Some sanding and buffing followed by a shot of rust encapsulating primer and one door was read to go back on the car with new hing pins and bushings.

    Yesterday I tackled another major item, stripping the horrible paint job off the Pace Car front bumper cover. I had bought this front fascia a while back after seeing it for sale locally. The downside was someone had applied a really heavy paint job on it with really poor prep work under it. The paint was brittle and any flexing of the urethane caused it to crack, so it had to come off. All of it. I looked into soda blasting, and chemical stripping, but decided to try good old fashioned elbow grease and sand it off to see how it would go. Not surprisingly, some of the paint would simply chip off in big flakes. I used my 6" air ROS and managed to get the vast majority of the paint off with 80 grit paper. I switched to my detail sander to get into as many of the nooks and crannies as I could, then resorted to hand sanding and even some scraping to finally remove all traces of the horrible paint as well as a good deal of the original paint too. That was five hours of work. It actually came out looking pretty good, though it still need a lot of final sanding and work. I still need to do the same treatment to the air dam.

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    The header panel that came with this cover was not in great condition, But fortunately my original is, so I will be reusing it.
    Last edited by BMW Rider; 03-16-2017 at 07:37 PM.

  23. #98
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Today I got the passenger door hung on the car and lined up. I had temporarily installed the new fenders last week as well as the hood. The fender was removed again to get to the door bolts, so I figured no better time to address the next issue, tire clearance. Since I chose to use the forward offset control arms with the MM K member, the front wheels are 1 1/2" forward of stock. I bought 91-93 fenders to gain some room, but it was still going to need some modification to get enough clearance. I had researched methods for getting the required room for the tires and the common practice was to simply push the lower edge of the front of the wheel opening outward with a turnbuckle or brace to flare the fender outward and getting it clear of the tire. The downside to this method is that it makes the front fender look misaligned, plus the fender extensions for the PC front end would then not fit properly either. I had thoughts on how to modify the fenders to move the wheel opening forward, and then came across a post in another forumn wher someone had done just that. I took that idea and did it slightly differently. Basically what I ended up with is a wheel opening that is now 1 1/2" further forward and longer overall.

    I laid out the area to cut out first, The angled top cut was calculated to allow a 1/4" overlap on the joint to make it easier to weld up. The edge got flanged to let the pieces meet up flush.

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    A bit of work with a disc grinder wheel in my air die grinder and the section was removed. I then cut 1 1/4" from the front edge of the cut out section, again allowing 1/4" of overlap.

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    Then all that was needed was to carefully realign the section to the fender in its new position, clamp it and weld it in. I had to then fabricate a filler strip to close the 1 1/2" gap at the middle of the fender and weld that in. A bit of grinding on the welds and the fender now clears the tire.

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    Of course the fender extensions and body side moldings will now be too long and need to be cut down to suit as well, but that's a later project.

    And of course the other side.

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    Last edited by BMW Rider; 03-16-2017 at 07:40 PM.

  24. #99

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    I like the fender mod, could we get a shot of it from further back?

  25. #100
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    I need to run the car outside for some full shots from all directions; just can't get a good angle in the cramped 12 x 20 bay the car is in. Stay tuned, we are getting some warmer temps later this week and into the weekend, so may be able to do it then. The competition tires will suck in the cold and snow that is out there presently. If I take it out in now I may not get traction to get it back in

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