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  1. #101

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    The orange/light blue wire was never the turn-on feed to the regulator. It supplied the field current -from- the regulator
    "F" terminal to the alternator "FLD" terminal. You won't see anything on that wire unless it's connected to the regulator,
    AND the regulator is turned on via the light green/red wire that originally went to the regulator "S" terminal.

    You should no longer have the 1G regulator, so I'm not sure what to make of your connector still being plugged into what
    appears to be a shiny new 1G regulator. Some 3G swap kits offer an optional 'dummy' regulator that internally jumpers
    the light green/red wire to the orange/light blue wire. You would then connect the far end of the orange/light blue wire to
    the "I" terminal on the 3G regulator. I don't know if that's what you have, but there's little point in leaving the actual 1G
    regulator in place on any 3G swap. If it is a regulator, I wouldn't assume it's any good.

    Were you able to get a better look at that cut-off orange wire? Does it have a light blue tracer? You could also verify by
    measuring for < 1Ω resistance between the cut-off end, and the orange/light blue wire in the 1G regulator connector. If
    it's not that wire, I'm at a loss to say what else it might be.

    The reason you need to disconnect the coil and TFI connectors is to make sure there aren't other current paths in parallel
    with the resistor, that will affect the resistance measurement. For all you know right now, the resistor could be open, and
    you're measuring something else.

    I don't know your specific meter, but it should have come with an instruction book that shows the indicators. You may be
    able to download another copy if yours has gone missing. It seems you have an autoranging meter, that does not have
    multiple knob positions for x1, x1K, x20K etc... Those will normally display a 'K' when measuring 1KΩ or greater, or an 'M'
    when measuring 1MΩ or greater. Measure one of your new 22KΩ resistors, to see what the display should look like.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  2. #102
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    So I worked on my wiring today with mixed results.

    I cut open the resistor block and installed a new resistor and new wires, came out good.
    Attachment 76664

    HOWEVER:
    While repairing the wires the block attaches to I found a horror show. One end goes to a male connector with 3 prongs.
    Attachment 76665

    Two of the three wires going to that plug were down to a few strands and the green one for the resistor block snapped off when I was trying to solder it. It was a near disaster. I had to cut away some of the bottom of the plug to expose the prong and solder to that. Then I had to tape it up tight with electric tape. I definitely don't want to leave it that way. Can you tell me that name of that connector or its purpose in the electrical system so I can try to find a replacement for it?
    Attachment 76666

    This is the female connecter it goes to.
    Attachment 76667

  3. #103
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    The orange/light blue wire was never the turn-on feed to the regulator. It supplied the field current -from- the regulator
    "F" terminal to the alternator "FLD" terminal. You won't see anything on that wire unless it's connected to the regulator,
    AND the regulator is turned on via the light green/red wire that originally went to the regulator "S" terminal.

    You should no longer have the 1G regulator, so I'm not sure what to make of your connector still being plugged into what
    appears to be a shiny new 1G regulator. Some 3G swap kits offer an optional 'dummy' regulator that internally jumpers
    the light green/red wire to the orange/light blue wire. You would then connect the far end of the orange/light blue wire to
    the "I" terminal on the 3G regulator. I don't know if that's what you have, but there's little point in leaving the actual 1G
    regulator in place on any 3G swap. If it is a regulator, I wouldn't assume it's any good.

    Were you able to get a better look at that cut-off orange wire? Does it have a light blue tracer? You could also verify by
    measuring for < 1Ω resistance between the cut-off end, and the orange/light blue wire in the 1G regulator connector. If
    it's not that wire, I'm at a loss to say what else it might be.

    The reason you need to disconnect the coil and TFI connectors is to make sure there aren't other current paths in parallel
    with the resistor, that will affect the resistance measurement. For all you know right now, the resistor could be open, and
    you're measuring something else.

    I don't know your specific meter, but it should have come with an instruction book that shows the indicators. You may be
    able to download another copy if yours has gone missing. It seems you have an autoranging meter, that does not have
    multiple knob positions for x1, x1K, x20K etc... Those will normally display a 'K' when measuring 1KΩ or greater, or an 'M'
    when measuring 1MΩ or greater. Measure one of your new 22KΩ resistors, to see what the display should look like.
    I don't have a 1G regulator, its the 3G replacement that PA Performance gave me with the kit.

    the cut off orange wire does look like a light blue tracer, could be white, or just faded from age.

    I didn't disconnect the TFI and coil because I pulled the batter and worked on the resistor block out of the car. Separated from the car it showed .001k Ohm and the new one showed 22.2k ohm so I think replacing it was the best thing to do.

    I was going to move the electric choke wire to the stator but I checked the stator for voltage and it shows 7V while the engine is running and .002v when the key is off. I'm worried the choke will run all the time and drain the battery. And also is 7V enough to power the choke? Any feedback on that?

    Still haven't figured out where to move the white regulator wire to that is still connected to the coil.

  4. #104

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    OK so it sounds like you have one of those dummy regulators. Do you also have the 3G regulator connector pigtail
    that goes with that dummy regulator?

    I don't have the PA performance installation instructions (and I'm -really- unimpressed they charge money for the
    download), but I expect their dummy regulator has you connecting that orange/light blue wire to the "S" terminal
    on the 3G regulator, to provide the turn-on signal that's currently wired to your ignition coil. So I'm curious why you
    would not have any voltage on the cut-off end of that orange wire when the ignition is on. Unless that wire isn't what
    it appears to be, or the light green/red wire to the dummy regulator 'S' terminal is dead.

    You definitely need to verify continuity between that cut-off wire and the dummy regulator "F" terminal, and you also
    need to verify the light green/red wire on the dummy regulator "S" terminal has 12V when the ignition is on.

    As for the choke connection, don't forget, a digital meter does not load the circuit under test, so whatever voltage you
    see on the stator terminal when the engine isn't running, is probably not really there. If you ground the circuit through
    one of those 22KΩ resistors, I'm betting you won't see voltage there anymore. Otherwise, the behavior you see on the
    stator terminal is as it should be.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  5. #105
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    OK so it sounds like you have one of those dummy regulators. Do you also have the 3G regulator connector pigtail
    that goes with that dummy regulator?

    I don't have the PA performance installation instructions (and I'm -really- unimpressed they charge money for the
    download), but I expect their dummy regulator has you connecting that orange/light blue wire to the "S" terminal
    on the 3G regulator, to provide the turn-on signal that's currently wired to your ignition coil. So I'm curious why you
    would not have any voltage on the cut-off end of that orange wire when the ignition is on. Unless that wire isn't what
    it appears to be, or the light green/red wire to the dummy regulator 'S' terminal is dead.

    You definitely need to verify continuity between that cut-off wire and the dummy regulator "F" terminal, and you also
    need to verify the light green/red wire on the dummy regulator "S" terminal has 12V when the ignition is on.

    As for the choke connection, don't forget, a digital meter does not load the circuit under test, so whatever voltage you
    see on the stator terminal when the engine isn't running, is probably not really there. If you ground the circuit through
    one of those 22KΩ resistors, I'm betting you won't see voltage there anymore. Otherwise, the behavior you see on the
    stator terminal is as it should be.
    Jeff, according to PA Products the original wiring and pigtail are to kept and used . I did get a copy of the instructions in pdf. I will PM them to you.

    Do you have any insight on the 3 wire connector pictured in my previous post? I feel a dire need to replace the male end of the connector.

    About the orange/lt blue wire, this pic shows it cut off at the main harness, so its not connected to anything. When I check that wire for voltage with key on it shows a small amount like maybe 2v but with key off it shows .02v. I recall just after this kit was installed my battery was being drained for 3 or 4 straight days. I remember calling PA Performance while I was at my mechanic and the PA tech asked us to test the line key off and when we told him it was still pulling .002v he said it was supposed to be zero and we should find another 12v key on source. That's when my mechanic decided to jump into the coil because it was the easiest thing to do. It did solve the problem of the battery draining when key was off. Since im not sure what that orange wire is for maybe I should just leave it be and find another 12v key on source that's a dead zero with key off.

    Im gonna try to jump the electric choke to the stator and see how it goes. I can always reconnect to its present spot if there's a problem.




    Attachment 76680
    Last edited by fgross2006; 10-31-2014 at 10:22 AM.

  6. #106

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    That connector is probably gonna be a boneyard deal. Or if you have a dead Duraspark module laying around.
    Female pigtails are available, but I don't know of any new pigtails for the male.

    Have you measured the cut-off orange wire with an Ohmmeter? If you're just measuring for voltage, you don't
    know if it's connected to anything or not. All you can say is whatever it might be connected to is not providing
    voltage. That's not the same thing. Put one meter lead on that cut-off end, and put the other on the orange/
    light blue wire at the original regulator connector. Is there <1Ω resistance?

    Likewise for the stator terminal, there's no need to just 'see how it goes'. As I said, you need some load on the
    circuit when you measure the voltage. Doesn't need to be much. With a load, I doubt you'll see any voltage
    there with the ignition off, or even KOEO. If you do, your alternator probably has a bad diode. By design, the
    stator terminal should not allow anything to drain the battery when the engine is not running.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  7. #107
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    That connector is probably gonna be a boneyard deal. Or if you have a dead Duraspark module laying around.
    Female pigtails are available, but I don't know of any new pigtails for the male.

    Have you measured the cut-off orange wire with an Ohmmeter? If you're just measuring for voltage, you don't
    know if it's connected to anything or not. All you can say is whatever it might be connected to is not providing
    voltage. That's not the same thing. Put one meter lead on that cut-off end, and put the other on the orange/
    light blue wire at the original regulator connector. Is there <1Ω resistance?

    Likewise for the stator terminal, there's no need to just 'see how it goes'. As I said, you need some load on the
    circuit when you measure the voltage. Doesn't need to be much. With a load, I doubt you'll see any voltage
    there with the ignition off, or even KOEO. If you do, your alternator probably has a bad diode. By design, the
    stator terminal should not allow anything to drain the battery when the engine is not running.
    my autoparts shop showed me a new duraspark in the box and the connectors are the same and they are male. My connector has 3 prongs, the closest thing on the duraspark is a 4 prong so Id have to pull one of them. However I don't want to spend $35 for a new ignition coil just to cut the plug off. So yeah, Ill check out local junkyards to see if I can find a used duraspark with compatible plugs.

    As for the orange wire, if its protruding from the engine harness I would assume it has to run to the ECM at some point and the other end which previously went to the regulator was cut off for some reason. When I look at my regulator connector I see 3 wires cut off with no connection. Only 2 are in use. That's what is making this so hard to sort out. My mechanic told me all the wires that are cut off were previously going to the old 1G alternator and now they have no purpose so he cut them close to the regulator connector.

    When I checked the stator I saw about 7 volts with the engine running. And I saw about .002 with the key off. What should I see at the stator with the engine running?

    On a positive note, after I soldered the wiring and connector for the 22k ohm resister it fixed the rough idle and shaky tach. So far the code 18 in CM has not returned. My car is now producing 3 11's during code scan which is fantastic.

    All I gotta do now is fix permanently the 3 prong connector, repair or replace the A/C diode and sort out the two wires still leeching off the coil.

    I meant to ask, I saw diodes on ebay for 18 bucks but they list for an 84 Tempo. Would it be OK to use? were they all the same in 84?

    Next pain in the ass project is I gotta do the heater core. Its getting cold here in NY and I got no heat in my car.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by fgross2006 View Post
    I soldered the wiring and connector for the 22k ohm resister it fixed the rough idle and shaky tach. So far the code 18 in CM has not returned. My car is now producing 3 11's during code scan which is fantastic.
    That is awesome. Congratulations.

    There are plenty of people who can build an engine and install it in a car, but who won't even attempt to go after electrical problems - especially computer-related problems.
    '88 Mustang GT convertible, T5, 3.08:1 gears. 5.0 Explobra Jet: A9L Mass Air conversion, Fenderwell Mac cold air intake, 70mm MAF meter = 4.6 T-Bird/Cougar housing + '95 Mustang F2VF-12B579-A1A sensor, aftermarket 70mm throttle body and spacer, Explorer intakes, GT40P heads with Alex's Parts springs and drilled for thermactor, Crane F3ZE-6529-AB 1.7 "Cobra" roller rockers, Ford Racing P50 headers, Mac H-pipe, Magnaflow catback, Walbro 190 LPH fuel pump, UPR firewall adjuster and quadrant with Ford OEM cable, 3G conversion ('95 Mustang V6), Taurus fan, rolled on Rustoleum gloss white paint...
    Past Four Eyes: Red well optioned '82 GT 5.0, Black T-top '81 Capri Black Magic 3.3L 4 speed, Black T-top '84 Capri RS 5.0 5 speed.Over 200,000 miles driven in Four Eyes, and over 350,000 in Fox Body cars.

  9. #109
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grabbergreen84 View Post
    That is awesome. Congratulations.

    There are plenty of people who can build an engine and install it in a car, but who won't even attempt to go after electrical problems - especially computer-related problems.
    Thanks Grabber.

    I had no choice but to research and investigate the issues plaguing my car. My mechanic got tired of it and told me I had to replace the entire engine harness to fix the issues. While I'm sure a new harness wouldn't hurt, I never believed that was the only way to fix the problems.

    This forum has been fantastic. Multiple mechanics I tried were clueless to diagnose these issues.

  10. #110
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Can anyone tell me if this diode for an 84 Topaz is compatible with an 84 Mustang?

    Theres a few of them on ebay and theyre not too expensive, but I cant determine if they are a correct application for an 84 Stang
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-OEM-Air...4ede13&vxp=mtr


    Attachment 76806

  11. #111
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    So looks like code 22 MAP out of range came back in KOEO and code 18 Loss of Tach input, IDM circuit failure came back too. I thought I had them solved. back to square one I suppose

  12. #112

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    It would appear that diode was used for the same thing in a Tempo, so I'd certainly give it a shot.

    I'm not sure 1/2W was stout enough for that 22KΩ resistor. The one the factory used was much larger,
    and I expect they may have had a reason for that. You may find that new resistor is open again.

    Still not sure what to make of your MAP out of range problem, other than the checks I mentioned earlier.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  13. #113
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    It would appear that diode was used for the same thing in a Tempo, so I'd certainly give it a shot.

    I'm not sure 1/2W was stout enough for that 22KΩ resistor. The one the factory used was much larger,
    and I expect they may have had a reason for that. You may find that new resistor is open again.

    Still not sure what to make of your MAP out of range problem, other than the checks I mentioned earlier.
    1/2 watt was the fattest they had at Radio Shack. can you recommend a better one?

    what other checks can I do to the MAP out of range issue? Im out of ideas other than trying a Motorcraft

  14. #114
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fgross2006 View Post
    1/2 watt was the fattest they had at Radio Shack. can you recommend a better one?

    what other checks can I do to the MAP out of range issue? Im out of ideas other than trying a Motorcraft
    It seems that Radio Shack only stocks 22k Ohm resistors at 1/2 or 14/4 watt. I will have to order from radio shack website to get a 2 watter. I hate to pay $8 shipping for a 99 cent resistor. Anybody know of retail stores other than Radio Shack where I can find one?

  15. #115

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    Just google what you want, and you'll see a bunch of sources. MCM Electronics is probably a good one, though.
    '88 Mustang GT convertible, T5, 3.08:1 gears. 5.0 Explobra Jet: A9L Mass Air conversion, Fenderwell Mac cold air intake, 70mm MAF meter = 4.6 T-Bird/Cougar housing + '95 Mustang F2VF-12B579-A1A sensor, aftermarket 70mm throttle body and spacer, Explorer intakes, GT40P heads with Alex's Parts springs and drilled for thermactor, Crane F3ZE-6529-AB 1.7 "Cobra" roller rockers, Ford Racing P50 headers, Mac H-pipe, Magnaflow catback, Walbro 190 LPH fuel pump, UPR firewall adjuster and quadrant with Ford OEM cable, 3G conversion ('95 Mustang V6), Taurus fan, rolled on Rustoleum gloss white paint...
    Past Four Eyes: Red well optioned '82 GT 5.0, Black T-top '81 Capri Black Magic 3.3L 4 speed, Black T-top '84 Capri RS 5.0 5 speed.Over 200,000 miles driven in Four Eyes, and over 350,000 in Fox Body cars.

  16. #116

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    My usual list of online sources includes, in no particular order, Digikey, Mouser, and Newark. But I'd be really
    surprised if you can't find a real electronics store on the island. The resistor you seek is nothing exotic, and
    should cost far less than shipping from an online source.

    You have measured that new resistor, and it's open, yes? It'd suck to go to the trouble to get another, only
    to find the problem was something else.
    Last edited by JACook; 11-21-2014 at 07:26 PM.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  17. #117
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    My usual list of online sources includes, in no particular order, Digikey, Mouser, and Newark. But I'd be really
    surprised if you can't find a real electronics store on the island. The resistor you seek is nothing exotic, and
    should cost far less than shipping from an online source.

    You have measured that new resistor, and it's open, yes? It'd suck to go to the trouble to get another, only
    to find the problem was something else.
    I have not tested the new resistor yet but you had told me that a half watt wasn't good enough and since the code 18 returned in CM I thought Id change the thing just to be sure. What else would be causing code 18 in CM?

    Also, I still have to replace the male connector. its butchered at the moment. I plan to buy a cheap dura spark ignition module and cut off the male connector. I found a few on ebay for 22-25 bucks. Not too bad for a new connector. If I found one sold separate it would be 15-20 bucks anyway so I don't mind sacrificing a new IM to get a new connector.

    I plan to change both of them at the same time to get it over with in one shot, but probably after the winter, Its frigging COLD in NY right now. Im damn glad I took a day to change my heater core. Heat is good, but I still have an antifreeze smell when I turn on the heat.

  18. #118
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grabbergreen84 View Post
    Just google what you want, and you'll see a bunch of sources. MCM Electronics is probably a good one, though.
    everything I found on Google is an online store. I cant seem to find a retail store other than Radio Shack that sells resistors on Long Island. I don't want to pay shipping for such a tiny item. Its not worth it

  19. #119
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fgross2006 View Post
    Can anyone tell me if this diode for an 84 Topaz is compatible with an 84 Mustang?

    Theres a few of them on ebay and theyre not too expensive, but I cant determine if they are a correct application for an 84 Stang
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-OEM-Air...4ede13&vxp=mtr


    Attachment 76806

    an update on this item,

    I went to a local Ford dealer and they pulled up this part number for the diode
    E422 14A601 A

    Its a discontinued part number. But that's what belongs in an 84. I still cant get a definitive answer if I can use a diode for an 84 Topaz and it will be OK.

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