83 Project Log. 4 barrelled 3.8L V6

[1983 GL V6 MUSTANG]

Hello, my names Steve and I have a car as my avatar states: 1983 MUSTANG GL with a 3.8L ESSEX V6. I recently rebuilt the motor and am currently adding the last few things before putting her back in. My question for you gentlemen, is what 4 barrel carburetor should I use for my motor? THere are plenty of shops around where I live that sell edelbrock 500cfm carbs. What cfm should I have? What are my options?

Question 2: What dual exhaust have people used?

Im also looking at a manual tranny. WIll try to keep progress on here.
Im adding two pictures to keep you entertained. You may recognize the intake. Which has a story all unto itself if you want to hear it.
Anyway, here goes:

[rbohm]

the 500 edelbrock will do quite nicely on your motor. or you can go with a similar sized holley carb, i think holley has a streetable 450cfm carb, if not the 570 will do fine.

[1983 GL V6 MUSTANG]

I want to make sure that is correct before I drop 400$ into a carb that may be too big for my car. IS there a way to calculate which is the proper carb for your engine size?

[rbohm]

I want to make sure that is correct before I drop 400$ into a carb that may be too big for my car. IS there a way to calculate which is the proper carb for your engine size?

there is a calculation for determining the cfm of a carb, but as long as you select one that is close to the displacement of the engine, and is a vacuum secondary, or air valve secondary, design, the carb adjusts to the engines demands, meaning that even at full throttle, the secondaries may not fully open unless the engine needs it.

as for four barrel carbs, the three smallest ones are the 390cfm holley, the 450 cfm holley, and the 500cfm edelbrock. all three are the right size for your V6. the 450 though is a more race oriented carb as i think it has mechanical secondaries.

here is a cfm calculator;

http://wallaceracing.com/intakecfm.php

take the results with a grain of salt though, as modified engines tend to like more CFM than the calculators recommend.

[V6Powa]

Thinking about a manual transmission is a good idea. Ditch that c5 auto and pick up a t5 and bell housing from a gt. the bolt patterns are the same from the 5.0 to the 3.8. I even used the flywheel and clutch from a 5.0. No idea if it is balanced correctly but it works. and its fun. frees up a decent bit of hp and lets you jump off the line. There is a thread on a t5 swap in the forum that is very helpful (link below). Should you switch transmissions, add posi. that will wake your v6 the hell up, as it did mine.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-8-V-6-is-done

[Ethyl Cat]

I want to make sure that is correct before I drop 400$ into a carb that may be too big for my car. IS there a way to calculate which is the proper carb for your engine size?

peak rpm/2 * cubic inch displacement * Estimated VE (85-90%)= CFM
1728

I usually add 10% to the calculated size if running a dual plane due to increased signal strength.


6000/2 * 231 * .88 = 353cfm * 1.1 = 388 cfm
1728

[1983 GL V6 MUSTANG]

I got in contact with the previous owner of the intake and he said he used an edelbrock 500 cfm electric choke, vacuum secondaries and he said it worked quite well.

As far as the transmission goes, I was originally going to get a 5.0L T5 and bell housing and just bolt it all up like people have said they have done on this website, but then I talked to Tom Yentzer (super 6) and he said that the flywheel from the V8 was counterbalanced differently and would eventually harm my motor. Well, I just rebuilt it and don't feel like doing something I know will harm it in the long run. SO he gave me some options as follows:

The 94-95 5.0 T-5 will work just fine but if its 87-93 the input shaft must be changed, but you need the 94-04 3.8L bellhousing. You can even use the 2.3L T-5 with input shaft change.

The 87-95 5.0 flywheel with the 94-95 5.0 bellhousing, but you get into engine balance problems with the 5.0's 157-tooth flywheels which are not the same balance factor as the 3.8's 164-tooth flywheel. And if you go this route, you must rebalance the flywheel. For this reason, its much simpler to stay with this combination:
94-04 3.8L V6 bellhousing
94-95 5.0 T-5 (or 87-93 5.0 T-5 with input shaft length)
94-98 flywheel, clutch and pressure plate.

BUT he said he works with 94 and up 3.8L, and could not tell me for sure the V8 would not work. He was pretty confident with his replies.

SO, V6POWA,
how many kilometres have you put on your 3.8L V6 with the V8 T-5? How does it run? WHat year is it? Can you give me some info on what parts you used? MOST IMPORTANTLY: Can you POST PICTURES? I would really appreciate it.

Thanks for all the c&cs. Have a good night

[1983 GL V6 MUSTANG]

peak rpm/2 * cubic inch displacement * Estimated VE (85-90%)= CFM
1728

I usually add 10% to the calculated size if running a dual plane due to increased signal strength.


6000/2 * 231 * .88 = 353cfm * 1.1 = 388 cfm
1728

Keep in mind it was bored out 1mm for all the cylinders. That would increase the volume. It also starts off at 232, no?

[plstktnkr2]

with the 4.2 displacement it works out to about 262 cubic inches

[V6Powa]

SO, V6POWA,
how many kilometres have you put on your 3.8L V6 with the V8 T-5? How does it run? WHat year is it? Can you give me some info on what parts you used? MOST IMPORTANTLY: Can you POST PICTURES? I would really appreciate it.

I only had a chance to put on a couple hundred kilometers on it before i stored it for the winter. The engine runs about the same as it did before the swap. No erratic vibrations or anything yet. It is an 83 v6 with the drivetrain of an 86. I took everything from the 86 GT and basically slapped it behind the essex. I used flywheel bolts from a new edge v6, and I swapped out the GT driveshaft for an aerostar driveshaft but other than that its all 86. flywheel, clutch, bell, t5, x-member, 8.8, speedo gear, pedal assembely. Donor cars make life so much easier.
However. I went to start it up yesterday to move if to the front of the driveway and the starter wouldn't grab the flywheel. It started fine before winter but i guess it didnt like the cold too much and perhaps it chipped a tooth or something. For the sake of doing right by my fox, I am going to heed the warnings of the internet and I'm going to grab an sn95 v6 flywheel or get my 5.0 re-balanced when i deal with this problem. And instead of putting the t5 back in I am going to put in an SROD that i acquired. I think my WC T5 is overkill for my v6 and could be better put to use behind a v8. Plus the SROD fits the shifter hole better and thats a big deal for me since i have no console.

As for the pictures, unfortunately I got a shard of metal lodged in my eye when working on my exhaust so i wont be doing any work on the car for about a week or so, but ill keep you posted and Ill snap some pics when I delve into the flywheel situation. Let me know exactly what you would like a picture of and ill do my best when im back at it.

[Metalbass1979]

Edit: double post.

[Metalbass1979]

On an exhaust note, I always prefer Flowmaster for mufflers. That is what put on every Mustang, although some may disagree. Along with a lot of other mods, I have them on my 2002 GT and have a set ready to go on my wife's 1985 LX 3.8 that I'm currently restoring. I also had them on my old 1997 3.8 convertible. They sound great. I would get pictures right now, but I don't have them on the '85 yet.

[PaceFever79]

83 GL, I'd recommend a Holley 390 for your V6, great little carb!

http://www.jegs.com/p/Holley/Holley-...43849/10002/-1

[Ethyl Cat]

Keep in mind it was bored out 1mm for all the cylinders. That would increase the volume. It also starts off at 232, no?

It was an example. Plug in whatever you want.

Steve

[1983 GL V6 MUSTANG]

Just wanted to post a small update. I went to the local auto pick and pull today, now that there is less snow, and there is a 2001 mustang with a 3.8, and a T5 that has 70K on it. As well as a 1997 3.8L, with a T5, but has 200K on it. I want the 2001 T5, but from what I understand, the 2001-2004 3.8L flywheel has a different balancing factor than the 90's and prior flywheel (internal compared to external). So I am still trying to figure out which to get before I spend all my time getting the wrong one.

My plan would be to go and grab the T5 tranny, flywheel, clutch and pressure plate, driveshaft, and possibly speedo cable and clutch pedal assembly. The last two things are different from fox to Sn95 I believe, but just in case. The wrecker said I can have all that for 200$. So we will see how it goes. Ill probably get to the wrecker within the following week.

Ive email a few people to get more info on flywheels, but so far no luck. If anyone on here has knowledge on this, with literature references, I would love to get the links to what you have.

Oh, and as far as carb and exhaust goes, at the moment I am more concerned about the transmission I want to put behind the motor. But thanks for the input. Ill come back to these issues when the motor and tranny I select are in the car.
Thanks,
-Steve

[rbohm]

dont worry about the flywheel, you just get one of those for the engine you are planning to bolt it to. the transmission you only need to deal with the clutch disc that fits it, and those are zero balanced, as is the pressure plate.

[1983 GL V6 MUSTANG]

dont worry about the flywheel, you just get one of those for the engine you are planning to bolt it to. the transmission you only need to deal with the clutch disc that fits it, and those are zero balanced, as is the pressure plate.

Where would you suggest I find out which flywheel to use?

[rbohm]

what transmission do you have in the car right now? even an automatic can tell you a lot. the flex plate will be balanced the same as a flywheel would be. once you know the balance factor, you buy the flywheel that fits with that particular balance factor, that also fits the bell housing.

[1983 GL V6 MUSTANG]

The transmission that came with it is an automatic, I am assuming a C4. Is there a good way to check whether its a C4 or C5? How do you know what the balancing is on a flex plate?

[rbohm]

The transmission that came with it is an automatic, I am assuming a C4. Is there a good way to check whether its a C4 or C5? How do you know what the balancing is on a flex plate?

look for the balance weight on the flex plate. usually ford does one of three balance factors on smaller engines, 28oz, 50oz, or zero. if there is a balance weight i think it will be 28oz. however i believe that the essex V6 was internally balanced in all years.

[1983 GL V6 MUSTANG]

Ill check tomorrow and let you know soon what the balancing is. If push comes to shove I could cut off the off balanced piece from the flex plate and weight it.

From what I have gathered, The 3.8L V6 offered in Sn95 mustangs had external 28oz counterweight from 1994-1998. From 1999-2004, they used zero (internally balanced) flywheels. Now 5.0L V8's from the fox era apparently all have 50oz counterweights. My goal is to finally determine whether the 1982-1988 3.8L has a 28oz or 50 oz counterweight, or somewhere in the middle.

[V6Powa]

Ok, so I got my eye all fixed up and I was out doing some interior work on my car. I fired it up and there was some nasty vibration with my 5.0 50 oz flywheel. Definitely going to deal with this asap, likely when i swap my k member and steering rack. I just switched to an SROD so I'm married to my 157/10.5 flywheel/clutch setup. I'm going to see if my local clutch shop can re-balance my 50 oz to a 28 oz. If not ill get an aftermarket.

Anyway the reason I posted is that there is another thread on here of a guy who put a t5 behind his 3.8. He used an aftermarket flywheel. It's some good info.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-8-V-6-is-done

[1983 GL V6 MUSTANG]

Ive read the few threads on here about the swap, but did not like the uncertainty of what should be done.
Today, I just received an email from SPEC clutches, confirming that the 1983 3.8L V6 automatic flex plate was counterweighted with 28oz. Therefore, I am going to use a 1994-1998 3.8L T5, flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate. Im going to go and grab these soon from a local wrecker, and Ill end up grabbing the driveshaft and cables as well.

Can anyone tell me if the T5 driveshaft is similar from fox body to Sn95? Or Do I need a 5.0L T5 fox driveshaft?
How about clutch cable and speedo cable?
And finally, what about pedal assembly?

[1983 GL V6 MUSTANG]

Ok, so I got my eye all fixed up and I was out doing some interior work on my car. I fired it up and there was some nasty vibration with my 5.0 50 oz flywheel. Definitely going to deal with this asap, likely when i swap my k member and steering rack. I just switched to an SROD so I'm married to my 157/10.5 flywheel/clutch setup. I'm going to see if my local clutch shop can re-balance my 50 oz to a 28 oz. If not ill get an aftermarket.

Anyway the reason I posted is that there is another thread on here of a guy who put a t5 behind his 3.8. He used an aftermarket flywheel. It's some good info.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-8-V-6-is-done

Id probably see if you could get it rebalanced first. Since the V8 flywheel has a different number of teeth then the V6 (164 teeth), and possibly a different diameter, and the V8 bell housing is different from the V6, I do not know if a V6 flywheel will work with your bell housing.

I guess you will figure that out. But Id like to hear about what happens with it.
-Steve

[plstktnkr2]

Just as a note, the AOD/T-5 driveshafts are the same not sure about an "SROD" or why you would want one ( 5 spd vs. 4 speed)