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  1. #1
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    Default FAQ - Known issues and fixes for 79/81 2.3 turbo engine (carb)

    I'm starting a thread that can be added to over time with questions, answers, and past experiences on tuning or rebuilding 79/81 Ford 2.3L turbo engines. What little knowledge there is about this engine seems spread across the net intertwined with misinformation and is not very useful to the person trying to keep their 2.3t on the road or improve its performance.

    We will attempt to centralize all known issues and fixes for the 79/81 Ford 2.3 turbo engine.

    Please contribute to this thread if you have experience either with a known issue or solution. If you were a Ford tech back in the old days, share with us some of the common problems. If you have repaired or rebuilt these engines to stock, or better than stock, or if you have trick solutions that work around their known issues.

    Basically this is a place to discuss and develop ways to keep these historic engines on the road, to restore, or to improve performance, without totally transforming them to EFI, or replacing them with another engine.
    Last edited by PaceFever79; 10-31-2015 at 09:54 AM.

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    We can start off with reference pictures (post some of your engine pics)












  3. #3
    FEP Super Member Travis T's Avatar
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    I know that melted pistons was a common problem with these, not sure what the cause was. I have the driveline out of a 79 hatch that was a turbo four and it's out of the car but still assembled. I am going to haul it over to the house soon and do a disassembly to see what exactly happened when the piston melted and this post would be the perfect place to show some things with it.
    Last edited by Travis T; 03-06-2014 at 10:44 AM.
    1984 Mustang GT owned since 1991 (first car). Mercury Mountaineer GT-40P engine, some suspension mods, currently undergoing a five lug SN95 brake upgrade and more suspension mods. Some minor body and interior mods have been done as well.

    2004 GT convertible, 2001 Taurus LX, 1994 F150, 1950 F-1 Ford Pickup

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis T View Post
    I know that melted pistons was a common problem with these, not sure what the cause was. I have the driveline out of a 79 hatch that was a turbo four and it's out of the car but still assembled. I am going to haul it over to the house soon and do a disassembly to see what exactly happened when the piston melted and this post would be the perfect place to show some things with it.
    Most likely a lean condition (vacuum leaks, bad carb, low fuel pressure) and detonation. The 2.3t had 9-1 compression pistons which didn't help matters. I think Ford did this because given the low quality of 87 octane fuel at the time, more boost was not possible. So they compromised with a higher 9-1 compression with low boost so the engines still had some low end torque. Today we have much better 93 octane fuel, so part of that problem can be solved just by using premium fuel.

    Another solution which I'm working on with my 2.3t rebuild is to install 8-1 pistons and rods from an SVO or TC. I got mine off eBay still on the original SVO rods so I don't have to rebalance them. The lower compression will help with detonation and allow safe boost. Smoothing out all of the sharp edges and polishing the combustion chambers to avoid hot spots will also help fight detonation. I also plan to install a wide band AF gauge so I can monitor any problem with the carb mixture in real time.

    We can't use intercoolers, so I plan on installing a Water/Meth injection kit. I'm estimating the meth injection should lower the intake charge temp enough to allow for safe boost to the 15 PSI range. Another trick would be to upgrade the ignition to MSD with adjustable boost timing control so you can dial in the optimum amount of spark retard. But even without a meth injection, or custom ignition mapping, you should be able to safely use the stock boost levels with just the piston swap and polishing the chambers.

  5. #5
    FEP Super Member Travis T's Avatar
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    I forgot about the higher compression. A friend of mine had a 79 Cobra he traded for a couple of years ago that only had 18k on it when it was totaled in 1981. Whoever tried to fix it did a poor job and never got it back on the road (car was too far gone to fix) and the plumbing on that engine was all jacked up, so I have access to a good stock short block as that car was parted out. I was thinking of putting the two engines together and putting them in a 79 or so roller if I ever found a good one. If I get started on this, I can get you all the pictures you'd ever want of these engines and their parts.
    1984 Mustang GT owned since 1991 (first car). Mercury Mountaineer GT-40P engine, some suspension mods, currently undergoing a five lug SN95 brake upgrade and more suspension mods. Some minor body and interior mods have been done as well.

    2004 GT convertible, 2001 Taurus LX, 1994 F150, 1950 F-1 Ford Pickup

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis T View Post
    I forgot about the higher compression. A friend of mine had a 79 Cobra he traded for a couple of years ago that only had 18k on it when it was totaled in 1981. Whoever tried to fix it did a poor job and never got it back on the road (car was too far gone to fix) and the plumbing on that engine was all jacked up, so I have access to a good stock short block as that car was parted out. I was thinking of putting the two engines together and putting them in a 79 or so roller if I ever found a good one. If I get started on this, I can get you all the pictures you'd ever want of these engines and their parts.
    Cool, I didn't start this thread just for my own use....

    I'm hoping to build some sort of centralized 2.3t reference, repair, and upgrade thread.

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    Also should mention the motor I am currently building is intended to be a better, more reliable, more powerful street engine, not some race engine. My goal is to use discrete ways to improve the overall performance. As I move forward with engineering my project, I realized there is no good resource I can find on the net. Suffice it to say these engines died out in 1981 and they are obsolete. No one has revisited these engines since. So I decided this would make a good reason to start up a thread dedicated to these engines. Maybe in a few years time we can build up some useful experiences and references for keeping this obsolete engine running.

    Or maybe I walk this path alone

  8. #8
    FEP Super Member Travis T's Avatar
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    Nah, you aren't the only one. Dad bought that 79 blown up in 1992 and we put a 2.8 V6 auto in it from a totaled 79 so my sister would have a car and we never got to experience that turbo engine and it's been sitting since. I want to know how it runs and drives myself so this thread is very interesting to at least one other member.
    1984 Mustang GT owned since 1991 (first car). Mercury Mountaineer GT-40P engine, some suspension mods, currently undergoing a five lug SN95 brake upgrade and more suspension mods. Some minor body and interior mods have been done as well.

    2004 GT convertible, 2001 Taurus LX, 1994 F150, 1950 F-1 Ford Pickup

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...84#post1652484

    Ak Miller did a lot of work in 1980, and it was previewed in 1982 with several experimental Turbo Propane non EFI engines in the Granada. Lots of the original gear was used, but it was a blow through conversion to the stock engine.

    The EEC IV EFI Turbo of 1983 was a different animal.

    See as well http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...e-Foxes-around
    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Very importantly, a 1980 Capri Turbo Carb and Propane Dual fuel item, which had the EFI Turbo/SVO exhast manifold and T03 blower with all the stock A code EGR gear and no internal mods. It gave 33 mpg highway on gasoline, and 22.5 mpg US higway on propane, but was fully California compliant. Range was 1000 miles with one tiny 1980 fuel tank and another 46 liter (12.1 US GAL) tank.



  10. #10
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    This sounds like a great idea. I wonder if a thread like this for NA 2.3 would be worthwhile. I'm subscribing to see how this goes. Maybe I can "borrow" some of your ideas from here and translate them to the NA 2.3 for fun. My little 88-hp engine needs some help.

    Edit:
    BTW, I have a zip-file that contains info for 1984 2.3T, if you think that might be of some help to someone in the future.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
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  11. #11
    FEP Power Member Mustang Marty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaceFever79 View Post
    I'm starting a centralized thread that can be added to over time with questions, answers, and past experiences on rebuilding or tuning 79/81 2.3L turbo engines.

    These engines were designed with a complicated array of vacuum/electronic components that need to work in perfect unison. The chances are that after 32+ years something under the hood was mucked with in a misunderstood attempt to service or increase performance of the engine. (Mine had a Gillis valve installed incorrectly and misrouted vacuum lines.)

    One thing everyone who owns one of these engines needs is the Ford service supplement. (Here is one on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-FORD-MU...3ffddc&vxp=mtr).



    I was given a photocopy of this guide to help troubleshoot issues that I was having with mine. It has troubleshooting guides, repair information, and the illusive vacuum and wiring diagrams specific for these engines. It helped make a big difference in how my car performed. Unfortunately, burned valves and a couple of flat cam lobes ended the life of the engine at 94k miles.
    79 Mustang Coupe - Jade Green Metallic - 5.0 5Sp - Purchased 2006
    17 Mustang Convertible - Triple Yellow Tri-Coat - 3.7l Auto - Purchased 2020
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    98 Mustang - White - 3.8 5pd - Owned 1998 - 2001
    84 Mustang SSP - White - 5.0 5sp - Owned 1993 - 1998
    84 SVO - Charcoal - 2.3t 5Sp - Owned 1989 -1992
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  12. #12
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    I Eliminated all but five vacuum lines on my engine and it runs great. One thing I also did was put the round tooth timing gears on so there would be more surface area for the timing belt. A good healthy cam in these and eliminating most of the vacuum lines will wake these engines up a bit. I also have the 2.3 turbo manual and it is a must have if you're going to own a 2.3t.

    Lamont.

  13. #13

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    I have had to pull the crank [pulley off a couple of times in the 20 years I've had my turbo Pace Car. While it isn't on real tight it does not just slide off. As there is nothing robust to grab on I have put dents in the pulley that I had to fix and got tired of it.

    I tried to get the original puller but the Ford tool number has been reused for a Focus pulley puller so there went that idea.

    I decided that the 2 holes on either side of the crank bolt were likely there for a puller and I could make a decent tool to do the job.

    I used 2 8" lengths of 3/8" threaded rod. Using a torch to heat them I bent the last inch of the robs slightly more than 90-degrees. I reheated them with a torch after I was done to relieve any stresses then dunked them in water to harden them so they would maintain shape in use.

    I used a regular bolt-grip pulley/steering wheel puller and a couple of washers and nuts to hold the threaded rod to the puller. I had to grind the threads off the ends that engaged the pulley but other than that they worked perfectly.

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  14. #14

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    With the exception of converting it to a later model electric fan (emulating what was done later and the best mod I made) this engine is externally stock with fully functional emissions equipment.

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  15. #15
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    I did a lot of simple mods to my 76 Mustang with a 2.3L. When I first got it, MPG was around 14-16 mpg. When I was done I was getting 29 mpg highway. Most of the mods I made were due to worn out parts and low budget repairs.

    1. Removed cat and egr valve (it was actually optional that year)
    2. Advance timing to max
    3. Water injection, vacuum feed
    4. Install Header and remove resonator
    5. Reduce heat range on spark plugs due to glazing
    6. Remove all vacuum hoses etc except for vacuum advance.
    7. Use quality engine oil
    8. Capped off valve cover breather

    The 2.3 has a nasty problem of clogging the cam oiling holes. Good oil and regular oil changes go a long way. It's not uncommon to see a cam get wiped out at 50K miles. Like I said, much list above was done as things failed and we repaired on a tight budget. #8 yielded the best improvement in MPG and was done by accident when the cap was lost. A Chevy valve cover cap was installed. Also consider the engine had over 120K miles at this point.

    Note: Oil leaks from the rear main seal will often wipe out the rear crank bearing as dirt gets sucked thru.
    Fox Body/3rd Gen MCA Gold Card Judge
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    14 Mustang CS/GT, 15 F150 FTX Tuscany, 16 F250 Crewcab, 67 Tbird 47K miles

  16. #16
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinK View Post
    ...
    1. Removed cat and egr valve (it was actually optional that year)
    2. Advance timing to max
    3. Water injection, vacuum feed
    4. Install Header and remove resonator
    5. Reduce heat range on spark plugs due to glazing
    6. Remove all vacuum hoses etc except for vacuum advance.
    7. Use quality engine oil
    8. Capped off valve cover breather
    ...
    This is a great list, Kevin. I've done all of these except #3, the EGR valve removal, and the header. I'm still cleaning the header and plan to rebuild the head before it's installed. The EGR valve will be removed when I rebuild the carburetor. Thanks for letting me know how well these mods worked for you.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
    2.3L Horsepower Potential Thread
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  17. #17

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    Which header did you guys get for the 2.3 t 2bbl ? I have a header but they said it couldn't fit so I don't know which header to get but I did replace the old exhaust manifold with a new exhaust mainifold.

  18. #18
    FEP Member svo84's Avatar
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    I not trying to through the thread off I am reading a lot of what every is saying with the Carb turbo set up. I have had EFI turbo cars in the past and never had problems. I am looking into a couple of 80 Cobra 2.3t cars and I have heard the horror stores about the motors in the 79-80 cars. I would like to build a nice Cobra and be able to use it for going on short trips. I would like to keep the draw thru turbo system if it can be made reliable or should I go to a blow thru system. I am not looking to convert the car to EFI but it seems there are no clear answers to these motor except to do a rebuild of the motor using SVO/TC internals. can Carbs be upgraded? do you have upgrade the fuel system? Header? what type? MSD/BTM? I like Pacefoever79 idea of building a thread to help everyone to keep the cars going and adding performance with that also. how about guys with M81/McLaren's didn't they make 175 hp. sorry to drag this one out so long.

  19. #19
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    I don't see why the factory setup can't be tuned and tweaked to be reliable for a car that gets pleasure cruised. Much of the old horror had to do with the horrible fuel that was available back then. It's hard to make a turbo motor run on that crappy low octane fuel of the late 70s early 80s. Just running a modern 93 octane fuel should prevent much of the detonation issues that claimed so many pistons back then. The issues with turbo bearing and seal failure should be somewhat improved with the use of synthetic oil and an oil cooler to help dissipate heat. Much of the turbo failures were caused by the need to jump into a stone cold car and drive it to work every day, getting them red hot then turning off the motor without a proper cool down. I believe that with a thorough rebuild, a good tune, regular maintenance, and good driving habits, these motors should be reliable for spirited hobby driving. At least that's the plan

  20. #20
    FEP Member svo84's Avatar
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    I agree. I am looking foward to buying this Cobra. I like the fact that carb turbo cars are unique in there own way. Looking foward to more tech posts for these cars.

  21. #21
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    They are unique!

    Ford's first mass produced turbocharged engine! and America's second turbocharged car. The Corvair Corsa came first, roughly 9000 examples of the 180HP Corsa were made. The Corvair also used a turbo draw-through carb setup. These two cars are the beginnings of turbocharged production cars in America.

    That's pretty cool.

  22. #22

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    I think that a lot of turbo failures had to do with people not changing the oil. I built a carb turbo motor in 2002 and put it in a Fairmont wagon. I put 219,000 miles on it and changed the oil every 3000. The car is gone but I still have the engine. I ran a 350 Holley with NO choke. Man, was it cold natured! The turbo that I put on it originally was of unknown condition and only lasted about 3000 miles. I put a reman on it and it is still there. I'm convinced that I could get another 200,000 out of that engine.

  23. #23
    FEP Member svo84's Avatar
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    So can different carbs and turbos be used? I didn't think there any after market performance parts for these car.

  24. #24

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    I got a carb adapter from Esslinger. It fit with a little help from my die grinder. As far as the turbo goes, they are an oddball for this application only. You may be able to find a turbo guru that can modify it internally for more power, but the gains would probably be minimal not to mention the expense. You can put a "regular" header on it and get a cross over pipe made for it also.

  25. #25
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    Because it doesn't have an intercooler, and there is no way to add one, I don't believe you could use more boost than the stock turbo is capable of making (10-12) without causing detonation issues.

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