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  1. #1
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Default What sort of signal does the EEC-IV Pin 34, Data Output Link, PWM Data produce?

    I want to fit a Ford LTD Tripminder to my carbed non CFI, non EFI, Non SEFI Fox. It just replaces the standard Fox clock where fitted.
    Greywolf supplied me some EEC convention data to help out, but I just wanna check if anyone else can elaborate.

    The early carb 1981 to 1982 Thunderbirds, Cougars, Crown Victoria, Marquis all had them as an option on CFI, Variable Venturi and 2150 Carb versions, and used an inline fuel flow meter when used in a carburetor installation. The option continued on some of the the Foxes and Panthers for 1983 to 1992, and it worked with BMW Turbo Diesel, and any induction system the 5.0 had. Irrespective of fuel delivery type, nothing changed much in the inside of the Tripminder from 1981 to 1992 in terms of the signal required to run it. They might have added a looped wire in 1986 for SEFI, but its still the same Tripminder.

    So the question is does anyone know the Pin 34 EECIV out put character in terms of wave form, max and min volts, and frequency? Its not often used, but when its tapped into, Pin 34 controls a signal to board computer

    The Tripminder I have is from a later Ford that looks for the injectors Pin 34 output. How do I produce the right signal.

    I've got a 0.5 to 8 gallon per hour electronic in line flow meter, and it needs to be conditioned to operate the same way a carby Fox, Panther or CFI or EECIV Pin 34 output signal does.

    It seams Ford were really smart when they scoped out the later electronic options, as nothing really changed on the vehicle speed sensor outputs for US Fox's and Panthers, and the later mode stuff can work with the early non electronic stuff if you use the right equipment. The tank resistance from full to empty varied between models, but there are plenty of kits and info around to sort it out, so that's not an issue.

    See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d=1#post941097 for further info

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    I'm much closer!



    Found it for injectors, but not carb...yet! Although if I find a 1981 to 1985 Ford inline fuel flow sensor, I could probably skip the math below. It's just like the factory VR speedo for Foxes and Panthers if you change the 8000 constant in the EEC IV EFI

    It's actually pretty easy for the pre EEC5 CFI/EFI cars, its Pin 34, the item is a counter, where, DOL_COUNT = INTEGER (FUEL_SUM * 7804.Injector lb/hr * INJOUT) + DOL_COUNT. The EECIV is proladed with injector lb/hr, and the Tripminder interfaces with the input details verses its lookup expected plusewidth based on its VIN coded injector size. Change the injector to larger or smaller lb/hr, rasie ot lower the on road mpg a proprtional amount.

    Ulimately, Ford works out your number of injectors and run the numbers below for a certain injector flow rate in lb/hr, over a certain summation period.

    I think the flow rate from an electronic sensor would work on a lbs per hr basis, but I have to digitize a fuel flow figure into 100 millisecond bites or pulse width counts from the non standard sensor to make it work.



    From sheltonfilms at http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=100241


    Correction I found the right pages under chapter 14: Data Output Link (its much prettier looking in the PDF)

    The Data Output Link (DOL) provides a communication line between the EEC and
    the vehicle dashboard computer, Tripminder, for the transfer of fuel
    consumption information. The fuel flow information sent by the EEC is used
    for computation of instantaneous and average fuel economy, which is then
    displayed to the driver.
    The Tripminder requires an appropriate integer number of pulses within 100
    msec period. Therefore, within each background loop or each 100 msec period,
    whichever is shorter, the EEC sums the fuel flow and through the injectors
    output since the summing period started, converts this sum into DOL pulses,
    and outputs these pulses at a maximum frequency of 500 Hz during the
    following summation period.
    The fuel flow is converted into DOL pulses according to the following
    equation:
    DOL_COUNT = INTEGER (FUEL_SUM * 7804.19 * INJOUT) + DOL_COUNT
    The FUEL_SUM is then reduced by the amount converted into DOL_COUNTS (One
    DOL_COUNT = 1.282E-4 lbm).
    where,
    DOL_COUNT = Number of pulses to be output beginning
    in the next summation period. One
    DOL_COUNT = 1.282E-4 lbm.
    FUEL_SUM = Sum of fuel flow per injector, which was
    initiated since last summation period. It is
    updated during the Fuel PW output routine.
    7804.19 = (48000 pulses/gal)/6.15 lbm/gal, pulses/lmb.
    INJOUT = Number of injectors per output port.
    (See Fuel Strategy)
    14-2 DATA OUTPUT LINK - GXK0
    PEDD-PTOPE, FoMoCo, PROPRIETARY & CONFIDENTIAL
    FUEL_SUM = FUEL_SUM + LBMF_INJn
    LBMF_INJn = Fuel Flow per injector, calculated from
    FUELFLOWn (n= 1, 2). (See Fuel Strategy).
    ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
    | | | | | | | | | | | |
    | | | | | | | | | | | |
    FUELPW ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ------
    |<-- 1 BACKGROUND LOOP -->|----
    || |
    || |
    DOL | |
    OUTPUT --------------------------- ------------------------

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    All found now!.

    The Malaise area Tripminder MPG meters have had to move on up to OBDI. OBDII, and CFI/EFI logic. Since cheap oil made congress go soft on CAFE fuel economy from 1984 onward to date, the only options for carb guys are 30 dollar flow meters, and a pulse hookup to on some old 1981 to 1992 Fox or 1981 to 1989 Panther platforms, or some specific GM cars. They were clock interface devices, and worked exceptionally well. My friends 1982 Commodore SLE 3.3 had one, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...k/DSCF0451.jpg. Both Ford and GM used the electronic devices with carb engines using a secondary supplier, it had three lines, in and out and a tank return line or activated carbon arrester vapor line equipped fuel flow meter, and the fuel flow meter is still around as an old part on theses junked Panther, Fox and B body gm letter cars. It was most common in the US as a E69Z-10D924-B Flow Sensor service replacement in Aerostar automatic 2.8's. The 150 to 160 hp versions of the Bosch K Jetronic 2.8 Injection on 1981 to 1985 Euro Fords is the same, but listed as 61044440-1 in http://www.motomobil.com/3237,61044440-1.html



    See http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...arburated-merc on what the Fuel Flow Meter/Separator/Reg.Valve sensor is. It's used all over the world from European and South African P100 Pickups too, and is available as item 6097149 and 6161181 for the Fuel Flow Meter Assembly on http://eucatparts.com/?action=cat_fo...&s_id_model=73

    If you use the common 1981 to 1989 non CFI/EFI carb engines three line fuel flow meter from Ford or GM, you'll be able to replace the Pin 34 from an EECIV appliaction to run any Tripminder this way http://www.therangerstation.com/Maga...tripminder.htm


    If you use an EECIV, the box code calibrates the Pin 34 out put to suit the injection type, injector type in pounds per hour, and if you mess with it, you then sclae your mpg up or down, because the Pin 34 out put is just the nuber of activated pulse widths based on the factory injector for the engine. For example.
    Fuel flow based on 19lbs. injectors. When you install larger injectors the computer will automatically adjust fuel injector pulse width to prevent a rich condition. Larger injectors = less pulse width. There is no fuel flow meter for EECIV fed Tripminders, but Ford claims that it also uses the input from the fuel gauge. My car has 24lbs. injectors and the tripminder reads higher fuel economy than I am actually getting but was reading correct before I changed the injectors.

    Various Fox 81-82 Tbirds, 83-85 LTDS and 81-82 Cougars, 82-92 Fox Lincolns along with all 81-89 Crown Victorias, Mercury Grand Marquis had them as an option. Then in the Noughties, the Explorer started running vehicle information centers, but the idea failed to impact anyone.

    The ScanGauge II trip computers for OBDII cars are easy and cheap to get from the ecomodder site, while the mpginea is a good step up from the essentially carb based Ford Tripminder for pre OBDI cars.

    1981-1987 GM-Holden http://www.hh.hansenits.com/model/v/..._computer.html

    1981-1985 XT5 GM Holden Commodore Trip minder Fuel flow meter http://www.hh.hansenits.com/assets/v...l-fig12-14.gif

    Carb, CFI, or EFI 1981-1992 Fox/1981-1989 Panther

    The EECIV has a pin set aside to emulate a carb fuel flow meter.

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    The 81-85 Holden Commodore 4.2 and 5.0 V8 copied the 1981-1982 Ford 4.2, 5.0 and 5.8 set up

    http://www.hh.hansenits.com/assets/v...8-fig12-15.gif

    Here are some other interchangability pictures. There's plenty of info, and the Tripminder computer swap is really simple, no matter what the induction system, although injector pound per hour changes and tank resistance to stage relationships mean you have to shop around for some parts.

    http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...rschematic.jpg

    http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...from1992-1.jpg

    http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...Computerv2.jpg

    http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...Tripminder.jpg

    http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...Tripminder.jpg

    http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...lflowmeter.jpg

  5. #5
    FEP Power Member qikgts's Avatar
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    Lots of off the beaten path info. Thanks for sharing.
    '85 GT

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    No wuzzies. The unifying factors are that any vapor flow sensor from the huge list of 80's to 90's car will work, and with any Tripminder. And any induction system. And any tank and any speedo , if your able to hard wire it to meet the specs. And just about any message board can help you make it work.

    Now, onto the reworked 1984 LTD Fox voice synthesizer. I can't rip a youtube of it, but I want The Voice (either John Shaft, Barry White or Lawrence Fishbourne) to resound if some bad a$$ tries to break in on mine!. Or maybee a Kiwi chick like Ms Nicolette McKenzie in this 1983 Austin Maestro VDP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5zs6TU32pY.

  7. #7
    FEP Senior Member droopie85gt's Avatar
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    Wow...that's a lot of research! It's not of use to me right now, but I will say THANK YOU for documenting it all here. Someone, maybe 5 years from now will be asking the same questions and hopefully find your answers!
    1985 GT, Sunroof, 5 Lug, Rear Discs, 01 Graphite Bullets, 88 forged piston shortblock, 2.02/1.60 Alum heads, Weiand Stealth, Holley C950 TBI, BBK Long tubes

  8. #8
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    When I saw the 1981 3.3/4.2/5.0/5.8 US Fords, European Injected 2.8 V6 Fords and Australian GM 3.3/4.2/5.0 Holdens had the exact same part, I knew the flow sensor was a standard order contracted part from a third party. It was just 4 hours of detective work. Ford and GM must have sunk a few million into development of that part, it is really very smart.

    It has three names, and is often called a vapor kit or regulator, as it has a bleed back or vapor return line, as well as a flow sensor. I'm used to people not calling things by the correct name. In Australia, it was sold as a hot fuel handling anti fuel vaporization kit on 4.2 and 5.0 Brock Commodores, and it was historical references to it in 1982 Holden Dealer Team Group 3 Commodore with a 276 degree cam, 4-bbl Quadrajet 252 hp 5.0 V8 literature which tweaked the memory banks. The third line bleed back varies on application from 1.5 mm insert on an itty bitty 3.3 to 0.7 mm on a 5.0. The whole part was deisnged for a certain hp level, and it ranged from an 85 hp Thunderbird 3.3 to those Improved Performance Holden Dealer Team (HDT) Commodore and Statesman's with up to 300 hp in New Zealand versions, so by general back ground info, the Ford Tripminder flow sensor kit can cover a wide range of flow data.

    I'll track down the bleed back and flow sensor differences somehow, but they are all the same casting with the same unions.

  9. #9

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    Lots of great info here. Did you find an answer for the actual calibration of the signal from the flow sensor? In the snippet of EEC code it shows 48,000 pulses per gallon. I'm guessing they didn't pull this number out of thin air.

  10. #10

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    If the Tripminder is looking for 48,000 pulses per gallon then the FloScan 20B sensor may be a perfect match. I haven't found a data sheet for the FloScan sensor but did find a reference to it putting out approximately 12,600 pulses/liter. The FloScan sensor is easier to find and cheaper than the "Ford" flow sensor. Looks easier to hook up as well since it mounts in-line on the suction side of the pump.

    I put together a spread sheet to convert liters/hour to gallons/hour and pulse/gallon to frequency. What's interesting is that if you factor 0.5 lbs/hour/hp then the frequency of a 48,000 pulse per gallon sensor is almost an exact readout of horsepower.

  11. #11
    FEP Power Member Ray Dog's Avatar
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    Dean, it's more fun when you step out of the flock and create your own path.
    But more work. That's why I drag raced my daily driver LSC instead of a GT.
    If you need Lincoln info I have 88 fox shop manuals they may help.
    Ray
    86 Mustang LX 3.8 Convertible (bought new}
    65 Galaxie 500 XL 390 auto
    2A

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Basically, mrriggs, your on the right track. If you can change the lookup values, its just like a Speed Density or MAP scala interchange, only a lot less complicated.

    From the Ranger and Serious Explorations site in four pages of posts on using E2 code 1982- the last Canadian 1991 VV7200 Motorcrat carbed Trip Minders,

    http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...nstall.307321/

    Basically, you use Pin 34 pk/lb wire on the right pcm on Box/Catch code EECIV's, it uses a 19 lb/hr injector baseline if it doesn't have the earlier vapor return flowmeter.

    After 1993 with respect to Ranger and Explorer EEC IV units, Pin 34 was then used as part of the Cam Position Sensor functionality, and the DOL output dropped out on that pin.

    From post#2

    sheltonfilms at http://eectuning.org confrimed the calculations

    Ray Dog, 5.0 LSC guys rule. The L code BMW 2.4 Lilter Turbo Diesel used the flow meter for its Indirect Bosch Mechanical injection.

    In Europe, so did the Trip Minders on 1981-1985 Peugoet 2.1/2.3 Diesel and Cologne 2.8 Injection Ford Granadas.

    When they went 2.0 Pinto EFI, 2.4 and 2.9 liter EFI in the 1985-1992 Scorpio, same deal. Pin 34



    Post#3 was from "trip computer and injectors [Archive] - Lincolns OnLine Message Forum"

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=nz

    Fuel flow based on 19lbs. injectors. When you install larger injectors the computer will automatically adjust fuel injector pulse width to prevent a rich condition. Larger injectors = less pulse width. There is no fuel flow meter for EECIV fed Tripminders, but Ford claims that it also uses the input from the fuel gauge. My car has 24lbs. injectors and the tripminder reads higher fuel economy than I am actually getting but was reading correct before I changed the injectors.
    And

    Ford is kind of vague just how the fuel flow signal is generated at pin 34 of the EEC-IV, but the final product (signal) must be similar to the one generated by a stand-alone fuel flow meter. Curiously, the shop manual for the '90 Mark also indicates that the Canadian export version had a separate fuel flow 'sensor' and the US version did not. Ref: Page 33-61-27 of the 1990 Mark VII Car Shop Manual


    the GrandMarq forum alluded to the fact that CFI, Carb, Port EFI, same Trip Minder accessed either the ages old flow meter or Pin 34 on EECIV.

    http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...arburated-merc

    and another post on Serious Explorations

    The Pin 34 output is just a scala, and it uses PWM to the Trip Minder.


    If you use 24 lb/hr injectors on the 5.0 Port EFI Panthers, the fuel consumption drops to an incorrect level, by a 24 over 19 scala.

    Tonge in cheak, a great way to improve your TripMinder fuel consumption......

  13. #13

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    The FloScan sensor is a turbine-type which is not very accurate at low flow rates because of fuel leaking past the turbine. It's intended for boats which cruise at much heavier loads than cars. I was thinking of ways to compensate for this. One thought was adding a bleed orifice right before the carb [returned to the tank] which would bring up the flow number at low flow and have almost no effect at higher flow.

    Then there was an "Ah Ha" moment when I realized that the Ford flow sensor is also a turbine-type and has just such a bleed orifice. Could that be the purpose of the orifice on the Ford flow sensor? I don't think it was meant as a regulator return because the P100 parts diagram linked to above shows a separate pressure regulator in-line with the flow sensor.

  14. #14
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    The kit is a "vapor kit

    or "regulator", as it has a bleed back or vapor return line,

    as well as a

    "flow sensor body."


    The regulator is specific to the South African designed P100 gasoline truck. Since it isn't fuel injected, and its Pierburg/Solex or Weber DFT carb are leak prone over 4.2 psi of fuel pressure, and have to pass strict EU Type Approval roll over leak free tests, it got a regulator. It may have been for incline performance matters, those carbs are renown for needing specfic help in offroad conditions, and AMC Jeep did its level best with a bleed back filter to fix incline performance without a carb change.

    Everything Weber 2-bbl from Ford UK or Ford of Europe from 1972, all Ford 2-bbls with the Weber carb had just the bleed back orifaces in the carb with a return line. The P100 looked like it used a non specific carb, and to mitigate orough road fuel flooding and to look after fuel consumption, the regulator might have been the least cost option for Ford SA. Normal system before 1985 was the twin return line Weber on 2-bbls.





    It was a Ford of Europe "serious design solution" due to underhood fires in accidents in the Mark IV Zephyrs and Capri 3000'S. The Pinto also used a bought in carb design, so the Europeans over engineered the fuel fittings for 1973.


    The 1971 US, 1971-1972 Canadian, and 1971 Australian Weber 32/36 equiped Cortina Mk III cars had occassional underhood fires.



    The 1973 Canadian Cortina got US 1973 Sspec Pinto/Capri front bumpers, and then died in North America, ugly, unrealiable, and unloved.




    So most 38DGES carbs, like those used on Jeeps, use the common kind of bleed back system Ford invented back in 1972.

    the type of 38 Weber commonly has it, most US market 32/36's don't.

    Jeeps use a steel return line filter, and some 38's via Outlaw have a return line to stop fuel bleed off
    http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/we...outlaw-927959/



    In 1980, GM Australia, Ford USA and Ford Europe used it as a proprietry part to effect bleed back to lower underhood fuel pressure and temperature.


    So it indded reduces pelton wheel leakage if the head loss is dropped by the dleed back holes Holden used for the 115 and 169 hp engines. Two size bleed backs to ensure the flow meter was calibrated right.

    So you buy one, and alter the bleed back with a replacable Ford Autolite or Holley jet, and your in ball park.


    I'm an Ecomodder, I saw all this back in 2012, but remebered the 1980 GM Statesman Caprice and 1981 SL/E Commodores and SS Group 1, 2 and 3'S and Euro Granada 2.8 Ghia's and Ghia X a2.8 Injections






    had the same part as the US Panthers and Luxobarge Foxes.




    Holdens bleed back technical memo has the exact oriface sizes for you.


    1.5 mm or 59 thou nsert on an itty bitty 3.3 with 83 Kw or 115 hp

    0.7 mm or 27.5 thou on 5.0 with 126 Kw or 169 hp.


    It was also used in the pathetic 1900 Commodore Royale, which might have had an even bigger bleed back valve, as that engine was just 78 hp (58 kW)

    I guess the rest can be done by interpolation.

    These are with GM Holdens version of the Trip Minder.













    "NOS HOLDEN WB STATESMAN CAPRICE TRIP COMPUTER FUEL FLOW SENSOR COMMODORE VH"




    On the early Big Valve 308 Holden engine got 276 or 295 degree camshafts for either 248, 295 and even higher Hosepoer Improved Performance Holden engines from Peter Brocks HDT, they used the block as a hot fuel vapor Kit only. Some Plice cars got it from 1983 to 1987 as a pure anti vaporisation kit. Its kind of hard to catch the Knight Rider in your V8 Holden if the fuel boils in your 169 hp 5 liter Squad Pursuit car



    Good fortune. Bleed back is just Q=v*a


    The part is designed for fuel injection primarily, but it removed the need for specific carb casting re-design, and that's why Ford and GM used it for a long time. I guess the 4180C and 32/36 DGAV and 38 DGAScarbs carried with them a design cost.

  15. #15
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    oops, miss posted

  16. #16

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    Did you ever determine the voltage of the "Pin-34" signal? I just bought a Tripminder to mess around with and I don't want to fry it.

  17. #17
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    See below

  18. #18
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrriggs View Post
    Did you ever determine the voltage of the "Pin-34" signal? I just bought a Tripminder to mess around with and I don't want to fry it.

    Two things. You won't fry it, as Pin 34 is just for the unit, and it runs injector pulse voltage, or the flow meter input, which is the same voltage and pulse signal type.


    The Tripminder only divides speed information by EECIII/IV's Pin 34 fuel flow (or the flow meter input on non EEC carb cars) to make fuel economy readout, namely:-

    1) Speed sensor (PWM)
    2) Pin34 from the ECU (PWM)

    The 3 rd variable, tank remaining, is the the std Ford IVR gas tank stage via an analog voltage.


    The 4th, Dimension, Time, it uses its Quartz chrystal. Then theres some power supply lines.



    I'm indebted to FEP Senior Member Greywolf from Richmond, ME. He's out to sea servicing our (ooppps, your) coastlines at the moment, but he set me up with some EECV stuff, but its too huge to post, and none of it is relevant to the valid trip minder Pin 34 output.



    Older PC/ED manuals cover more of the EEC-IV era but sadly I don' have them on PDF. I can research if you need (...if I can find them in my big unsorted pile of books, which is in my big unsorted pile of automotive tools, which is holding up my big semi-sorted pile of building supplies...). I go back to the late '80s in these manuals, with significant coverage back to the late 70s via other, related manuals.
    Because of the way data is copied on the internet, its not catagorically listed.

    I'm not certain, but since its Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) it should be a square wave form from ground to buffered battery voltage, about 12 volts peak (others have measured 12.5 volts peak).

    http://www.auto-diagnostics.info/ford_eec_iv

    http://www.fordmods.com/documents.php?d=41

    Pin 34 provides the voltage, so you just need to check it outputs.

    When equiped with Data Output Link PWM Data signal 0-12 volts square wave form.


    Before EECV, from 93 to 94, they changed the pin outs, so you'll have to check some other sources.


    Page 2
    http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/....307321/page-2

    has two files,

    http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...-13-jpg.70072/
    http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...-13-jpg.70073/


    with connector wire colors, so you can check.

  19. #19

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    Thanks for all the great info. My car is carbureted so I don't have a Pin-34 to measure. I'm going to try to make the Tripminder work with the FlowScan 20B fuel flow sensor. The sensor outputs a 12 volt square wave and I didn't want to hook it directly to the Tripminder if it was designed for a 5 volt signal.

  20. #20

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    The mail man dropped off my Tripminder on Friday. I broke out the scope and function generator so that we can definitively answer the original question of what signal is required.

    The first thing I checked was the trigger thresholds. The fuel input takes a square wave, the High must be over 9 volts and the Low below 4 volts, so this is definitely a 0-12 volt input.

    The distance input is AC, the voltage must swing at least 0.3 volts above and below ground. This is meant to be hooked directly to the magnetic VSS sensor. Triggering it from a digital signal would require a +/- 5 volt supply.

    The standard Ford VSS puts out 8,000 pulses per mile. I just did a quick check of the distance input using the function generator to confirm that the Tripminder is looking for 8,000 pulses per mile.

    The fuel input is in fact calibrated at 48,000 pulses per gallon. To check this, I made a simple square wave generator triggered by a filament transformer. The utility 60Hz is far more stable than my old function generator. With a 60Hz signal to the fuel input it took 13 minutes 18.72 seconds to register 1 gallon. That works out to 47,923 pulses per gallon, less than 0.2% error from 48,000. I figured some of that error may have been my reflexes with the stop watch so I repeated the test with a higher value. It took 1 hour 6 minutes 33.62 seconds to reach 5 gallons, which again works out to 47,923 pulses per gallon.

    I don't have the necessary equipment to properly test the FlowScan 20B fuel flow sensor so I'm just going to hook everything up in the car and see how it goes.
    Last edited by mrriggs; 03-07-2017 at 12:21 PM.

  21. #21
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    You'll be fine. only issue is the tank sender, as all Trip Minder cars had either the big 22 or 26 gallon Panther tank, or the S car Fox tank (thats the Streling built long wheel base XR7's, T birds. The Escort and Tempo used a reverse system like the CFI 3.8 and 5.0 cars did.


    So your fuel remaining data set has to operate off of a similarly sorted reverse stage tank sensor.

    JACook mastered the system using his 85 CFI convertable a few years back.

    Only '83-'86 CFI and EFI fuel gauge senders, Ford part number E3ZZ-9375-C, are Trip Minder compatible, but it wasn't a Capri or Mustang option becasue the clock retro fit would have put the Trip Minder in a dangerous postion when driving. However, all CFI cars were mapped out for the Trip Minder. Carb cars weren't, unless they were Panthers or the long wheel base S cars (105.5 84-87 LTD & Marquis, 108.4" 80-82 Cougar XR7, 80-82 Tbird, 82- whatever Conti compact, and the LSC Hash Sevens and revised Fox chassis with a shortened approx 104-inch wheel- base 83 to 88 Tbirds/Cougars).

    Now LMR makes a replacement, or at least some of the ingredents, IIRC.

    See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...l-sending-unit


    I've been a long time testing technician for soils , aggregates and road properties such properties as surface deflection, roughness and density determination by non Ionising radiation since 1988. My boss showed me the anaolgue and digital world, and although its a little complicated, if you ask the questions, then get your hands dirty, you win.And the good news is that the Motorola and Slicon Valley solid state stuff Ford outsourced is worl cl;ass. Good enough to put people into space and back.

    Generally, Ford in th late 70'S scoped out its on board systems systems by using smart ex Defence and NASA Rocket Scientists, the same sort of guys who aced the class with the Patriot Missle systems. Hence the proprietry gear is likely to be the only issue, not Fords splendid quality control. Everything on board computer related at the Ford motor company was far more advanced than GM, even thoug GM put ALDL's in there cars way earlier. For dhad just been working with arange of very smart sub contractors to get the systems in place.


    The TripMinder ideas surfaced many years before it showed up in 78 Lincolns.


    The VSS is very finely contrived, and its rather akward to understand how its output varies unless you have a better than Category 4 scope.


    Since the VSS, Cruise contol and IVR tank voltages are all based on years old Fox technolgy, your good to go. Your only issue is fuel tank voltage, which is swapped around to suit the big S cars and Panthers and CFI Foxes. So your ohms verese stage curve will be backwards on the M code Carb 4-bbl to the CFI M code.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...t-verses-speed

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    What a very strange, but very cool system.. It's just the 8000 plips per mile, early EECIV compatibale 8 pulse per revolution VRS system, with a variable voltage sqaure wave form from 20 mph onwards. It does have some funny features on sub 20 mph voltage polling, technically able to poll back down to 7 mph in some circumstances.

    Certain versions of the EEC III, EEC IV and most EEC V's require an 8000 pulse per mile vehicle speed sensor signal from the PSOM (speedo module), which is just like all other EEC-IV equipped vehicles

    Other later EEC V applications use a 16000 or 40000 pulse per mile VSS signal.



    I'm told that some of the CFI or Speed Desnity AOD Fox varaints poll down to 7 mph, and allow idle speed conditioning.



    Sadly, the periodic zero mph to 19.9 mph null readings won't do what I need it to do, as like some ABS circuits, it has no reliable squarewave below 20 mph to log distance travelled. Its circumstantial, and as such, presents as aa Major Bummmer to me.....

    I could probably use a prescaler to create a digital sqaure wave form from an SN95 hub, but I can get another Proximity sensor tommorw in the post for 95 US.


    I jacked up my car, and ran the standard Hertz, A/C Voltage and Ohms resistance checks from zero to 62 mph, with my metric speedo registering in KM/H. Note that there is no voltage going up to 32 km/h or 20 mph, but once invoked, the voltage can be recorded right donw to zero, so there is an interesting voltage speed, Hertz resolution

    0 km/h, 0 mph 0 Hz, zero volts AC
    12 km/h, 7.4 mph, but 0.016 volts AC on over run
    See picture

    20 km/h, 12.4 mph 0 Hz, zero volts AC
    30 km/h, 18.6 mph 0 Hz, zero volts AC, but 0.033 volts AC on overun
    See picture

    32 km/h, 19.9 mph 0 Hz, 0.00 volts AC
    32.2 km/h, 20.0 mph, 0 Hz, 0.019 volts AC
    40 km/h, 24.9 mph 0.056 volts AC
    50 km/h, 31.1 mph, 0.083 volts AC
    60 km/h, 37.3 mph 102 Hz, 0.109 volts AC
    70 km/h, 43.5 mph, 0.149 volts AC
    80 km/h, 49.7 mph 0.186 volts AC
    88 km/h, 54.7 mph 125 Hz, 0.223 volts AC
    See picture

    100 km/h 62.1 mph, 0.273 volts AC
    See picture



    The square wave form kicks in after 19.9 mph on the upward rise, with zero Hertz cycles per second on my Cat IV multimetervoltage and the voltage increasing steadily from 20 mph on upwards.


    The on the decilne after 20 mph, it records right down to 7 mph, assumably for the one Speed Density AOD car that needed idle speed control...

  22. #22

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    My Tripminder doesn't have the fuel remaining function. There are only two inputs; fuel flow and vehicle speed. It will display elapsed time, average speed, distance traveled, average fuel consumption, instant fuel consumption, and gallons used.

  23. #23

  24. #24

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    I finally got around to hooking up the FloScan sensor. The instructions say that it needs to be mounted below the fuel pump inlet and at least a foot away. That doesn't give too many options when using a mechanical pump on a V8. I ended up mounting it down on the steering rack.

    The sensor has an open collector output so it requires a pull-up resistor. I used a 10k Ohm resistor between the output pin and 12 volt source.

    I took it for a test drive this evening and was thrilled to see the Tripminder working. Unfortunately, the fuel flow reading is WAY off. On the freeway it said I was getting 8 MPG and that I used over 2 gallons on a five mile test drive.

    A few weeks ago, I replaced the fuel pump with one that has the built-in vapor return line (cured my hot start issue). The orifice on the vapor return is 0.035". Perhaps that is too large and there is excess flow in the return line. A simple test will be to block it completely and see if the MPG reading goes up.

    Another thought is that the Tripminder is being false triggered due to the high input impedance. That should be easy enough to check with an oscilloscope.

    If neither of those are the cause of the inaccurate reading then the fuel flow sensor is simply putting out the wrong signal. The frequency range of the sensor is basically the same as a VSS so an off-the-shelf electronic speedometer calibrator mounted between the sensor and Tripminder would probably work to correct it.

  25. #25

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    Bingo! I blocked the vapor return on the fuel pump and the MPG numbers came right up. It now shows 18 MPG on the freeway and shoots over 30 when decelerating. I don't want to lose the vapor return function so I'll experiment with smaller orifice sizes.

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