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Thread: 87+ spindles

  1. #26

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    Dude, this is turning into more than I'd hope for. This is super interesting. Thank you (don't know if I can say that enough) very much you two.

  2. #27
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str8sixfan View Post
    Dude, this is turning into more than I'd hope for. This is super interesting. Thank you (don't know if I can say that enough) very much you two.
    When these two type, I pay attention.

  3. #28
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I apologize if I muddied the waters on this one. That wasn't my intention! Unfortunately as is often the case with Ford its not a simple this or that proposition. As Jack alluded to in his previous post, Ford does many things in regards to how and where parts come from, etc. The nice thing about Ford's part number system is that it does allow or help us to kind of track or at least back track the original intention or source of many parts. Also keep in mind that the part numbers I posted are from a final "printing" or copy of the Master catalog. The part numbers listed are replacement part numbers and in no way guarantee what exact part number may have been installed originally on the vehicle. As some of the updates show, some parts are updated/changed/improved/etc. and then the new part will back date to replace earlier parts. If anything the listings I posted are to help verify which boosters interchanged between the vehicles as was your original question. This is one of those rabbit holes that can get very confusing and easy to get lost the deeper you go! Anyway, best of luck and hope I was able to help at least a little bit even if I may have caused additional confusion in the process.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  4. #29

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    So I shot this on Sunday before I learned a little bit more, but I tried dumping all the information into a YouTube video that I could - https://youtu.be/Y2daiQ-DGvE

  5. #30

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    A couple notes on the video.

    1) Some 1978-81 Fox cars did have 9.3" front brakes. These cars used the A spindle and the same 60mm caliper. I believe that they use a different brake pad that moves the caliper 0.35" inwards towards the spindle axis.

    2) Installing a 1993 Mustang Cobra booster on your car is guaranteed to make the brake pedal softer. This booster has more assist than the booster which is currently in your car. With more assist, it is easier to push the brake pedal down a greater distance. If there is a problem with your current booster because the pushrod is not adjustable, you can easily feel for any play between the pushrod and the m/c piston by moving the brake pedal by hand. If there is 0.050" of clearance between these two parts, then there will be an additional 0.175" of free play in the brake pedal before it starts moving the m/c piston. That is nothing. There is no possibility of this causing a car to have a mushy brake pedal.

    Additionally if you install this brake booster in your car, the brakes are going to feel like you are driving a Cadillac or Lincoln. All you have to do is breath on the brake pedal and the brakes are on the verge of locking up.

    3) The SVO brake booster is basically the same as the B type (not shown on your chart) booster from a 1987-93 V8 Mustang. Both of these boosters have the same number of diaphragms with the same diameter (2 x 152mm). There may be some minor differences between the two boosters.

    4) The 1994-95 GT/V6 m/c diameter is 1.063".

    One general note. It is extremely dangerous to assume that if you swap a bunch of SN95 brake parts on your Fox car, that everything will work fine. This is because SN95 cars have four different brake pedal ratios, where a Fox car with power brakes has only one. In many cases, when you install SN95 rotors and calipers onto your Fox Mustang, you need to use a different m/c than the SN95 car used, because of this.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  6. #31

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    One other thing.

    If you want to get the most complete source of information on fox Mustang brakes, go purchase a copy of "5.0 Mustang Technical Reference & Performance Handbook" by Al Kirschenbaum. ISBN 978-0-8376-0210-3. Make sure to get the printing which is 11.06" tall. This version does NOT have the drawing of a 5.0l Mustang engine compartment inside the front cover.

    This has a lot more information on the brake system data, plus a few hundred more pages with details on everything else in the car. It is an amazing book.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
    A couple notes on the video.

    One general note. It is extremely dangerous to assume that if you swap a bunch of SN95 brake parts on your Fox car, that everything will work fine. This is because SN95 cars have four different brake pedal ratios, where a Fox car with power brakes has only one. In many cases, when you install SN95 rotors and calipers onto your Fox Mustang, you need to use a different m/c than the SN95 car used, because of this.
    This is why I didn't go too far into the SN95 setups, because like I was saying, there's several different spinoffs of where you could go with them.

    I'm going to try and call you tomorrow on my drive home (5pm central) to discuss where I currently am at and where you think you'd go next if it was your car.

  8. #33
    FEP Power Member gmatt's Avatar
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    So, Lincoln Mark VII spindles are different than 87+ Mustang V8 spindles? The bore for the ball joint is larger? Is this correct? Other than this, everything else is the same? Bearings, rotor, caliper mount. I know the Mark Vii calipers have a larger piston, but they mount the same. And MM ball joint sleeves will allow Mark Vii spindles to be mounted on a 87+ Mustang V8 spindle? https://www.maximummotorsports.com/S...pair-P444.aspx

  9. #34
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmatt View Post
    So, Lincoln Mark VII spindles are different than 87+ Mustang V8 spindles? The bore for the ball joint is larger? Is this correct? Other than this, everything else is the same? Bearings, rotor, caliper mount. I know the Mark Vii calipers have a larger piston, but they mount the same. And MM ball joint sleeves will allow Mark Vii spindles to be mounted on a 87+ Mustang V8 spindle? https://www.maximummotorsports.com/S...pair-P444.aspx
    Not sure about the actual balljoint bore, but the taper is different that is why the MM adapter is needed. The Mark VII uses the same 73mm caliper as the SVO, but I don't know that there is any significant improvement or increase in braking performance by making the swap.

    I think you mistyped in regards to the Mark VII being mounted on the 87+V8 spindle. So not sure what you are asking for there.

    MY .02 is go with the 87-93 V8 spindles and brakes, and add a quality set of pads and shoes to the package https://www.maximummotorsports.com/B...7-93-P676.aspx and you will be pretty happy with the overall package. The only "advantage" that I am aware of using the SVO/MarkVII spindles on a Mustang/Capri is an increase in Ackerman. Discussing the pros and cons of increased Ackerman is a whole 'nother can of worms. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  10. #35
    FEP Power Member gmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    Not sure about the actual balljoint bore, but the taper is different that is why the MM adapter is needed. The Mark VII uses the same 73mm caliper as the SVO, but I don't know that there is any significant improvement or increase in braking performance by making the swap.

    I think you mistyped in regards to the Mark VII being mounted on the 87+V8 spindle. So not sure what you are asking for there.

    MY .02 is go with the 87-93 V8 spindles and brakes, and add a quality set of pads and shoes to the package https://www.maximummotorsports.com/B...7-93-P676.aspx and you will be pretty happy with the overall package. The only "advantage" that I am aware of using the SVO/MarkVII spindles on a Mustang/Capri is an increase in Ackerman. Discussing the pros and cons of increased Ackerman is a whole 'nother can of worms. Good Luck!
    Thanks for the reply. My statement about the caliper interchangeability was just that. Either caliper will bolt to either spindle. I don't intend to use the Mk Vii calipers. I have a set of Mark Vii spindles that I would like to use on a Mustang. I was thinking that all I need is the ball joint spacers to do this and that the Mustang calipers/rotors will work on these spindles. Sorry if I got a little muddy in my 1st post. MMs tech section says the Mark Vii's spindle bore is larger necessitating the spacer. Just want to make sure I got my info correct.

  11. #36
    FEP Power Member gmatt's Avatar
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    This is from MMs tech page on SVO spindles:
    • Spindle, rotor and caliper were sourced from a Lincoln.
    • Diameter of the ball joint taper is that of the Lincoln, which is larger than a typical Mustang ball joint. This requires a ball joint adapter when swapping this spindle onto any other 1979-04 Mustang ball joint.

    I think I'm on the right track, just want to make sure.

  12. #37

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    Taper of almost all Ford ball joint studs that go into steel is the same. 1 over 8 ratio.

    The difference is in the overall diameter. In the Mark VII application, the car uses a larger ball joint, so the stud on the ball joint is also larger OD. The MMFCAB-10 spacer has a constant wall thickness to convert from one to another.

    The other significant difference between the Mark VII spindles and the 1987-93 V8 11" spindles is the length of the steering arm. The arm on the Mark VII spindles is 0.47" longer. This has two affects. The major one is that is slows down the steering about 10%. The other is that it adds Ackermann steering affect (reduced understeer).

    If you use 1994-95 spindles instead, you won't need to use the ball joint adapters. The steering arm is only 0.2" longer, so the steering won't be much slower, but the end of the steering arm is moved 0.53" outwards, so there will be a large increase in Ackermann. The strut mounting ear i moved 1" down, so this gives the suspension 1" more bump travel with a given strut. If your car is lowered, this is very helpful. Way more brake and wheel options. Easier servicing.

    There really is no reason to use the Mark VII spindles. They may have been hot **** in 1993, but there are way better options now.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

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