4 speed difference?

[80Notch]

what is the difference between the "german" and "Ford" 4 speed (SROD) trans....my car is an 81 i just ordered a clutch hope i got the right one...its the ford one

[80Notch]

Bump anything?

[xctasy]

As the KGB Muppets said in one episode with Carol Burnett or someone talked too much when interegated by the Soviets, "Vee have ways of making you stop talking"


See http://www.type9gearbox.co.uk/type-9-production.html

The Hummer German 4-speed is a small singlerail which is generically linked to the old early 60's Dagenham gearbox, and ended up as the T9 5 speed in the Merkur Scorpio.

It will go most places a 3.03 Toploader will go, and uses similar main shaft and bolt patterns. Its limited to about 205 lb-ft, then it breaks. Anything over the Explorer 4.0 SOHC power level breaks them, with Turbo 205 hp Tickford Capri breaking them, often.

It has a nice shift if the ball doesn't come out of the extension housing.

In four cylinder 2300 form, it has Pinto 2000 style ratios, with 3.65 1st 2.14 or 1.97 2nd, 1.37 3rd, 1:1 4th.

Over seas, its used in the Kent, Cologne built Pinto engines, and the Cologne and Essex UK 60 degree V4/V6'S's

In 1982, it got an optional 5th speed 0.825 overdrive in 1600 and 2000 cc i4'S and 2300cc V6 Sierra's and 1.6/2.0/2.3 Capris, and a close ratio versions 0.825 5th for the 2.8 and 2.8 Injection.

It uses some 6 cylinder 64.5 to 66 Mustang/Econoline Flcon 4 speed Dagenham parts inside, but has a much nicer 2 nd gear.

The best ratios for the 2800 Capri V6 T9 were 5th 0.825, 4th 1.00, 3rd 1.26, 2nd 1.81, 1st 3.36, rev 3.37

The 1600/2000/2300 (i4/i4 or v6/v6) were 5th 0.825, 4th 1.00, 3rd 1.1.37, 2nd 1.97, 1st 3.65, rev 3.16

The close ratio 3000 cc Essex gears were 4th 1.00, 3rd 1.412, 2nd 1.94, 1st 3.16, rev 3.346

The info on sources of 4 and 5 speed gearboxes, see http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au...apri_mkiii.htm

[FoxChassis]

The "Ford" 4-sp (SROD) was actually "TREMEC", and I'm not even sure it was available behind the 2.3L that year. All of the manual 2.3L that I have in the database have a Hummer.

There was a third 4-sp made by Borg Warner but it does not seem to be common that year.

Did you look on the door tag to see which transmission the car originally had?...

4 = TREMEC
6 = Borg Warner
7 = Hummer

[80Notch]

Ed helped me figure it out this morning...thanks for the rplies guys...it is in fact a "german" trans

[IDMooseMan]

How did you determine it was the "German" (78ET?) transmission, Dayne? I'd like to verify mine.

[80Notch]

i was told it was by the "7CCFF" on the bottom right corner of my door tag

[xctasy]

Just check the shifter. If itlookes like this...

[80Notch]

mine has the 3 bolts that hold it on the trans....

[ethangsmith]

Yep, then you've got a german "ET" 4 speed.

[80Notch]

another question...what kind of fluid do i put in it? obviously not ATF like the T5 right?

this is it with the cover off...

[Bungy]

another question...what kind of fluid do i put in it? obviously not ATF like the T5 right?

The Ford manual calls for ESP-M2C83-C which I believe is an obsolete number. You can just run 75W-90 gear oil.

[DougCapri79]

what is the difference between the "german" and "Ford" 4 speed (SROD) trans....my car is an 81 i just ordered a clutch hope i got the right one...its the ford one

My 79 Capri 2300 has the Borg Warner aluminum case 4 speed. I've seen "tables" showing the gear ratios of this & your German cast iron case 4 speed. 1st gear is nearly identical on both. The aluminum case has closer ratios between 1st, 2nd, & 3rd gears, and a big jump between 3rd & 4th. Wider ratios between 1st, 2nd, & 3rd, & less of a jump between 3rd & 4th on the German trans. Both trans have 1 to 1 4th gears but this is normal. My mildly built 2300 runs really strong through 1st, 2nd, & 3rd, but the rpm drop shifting from 3rd to 4th is too much, acceleration really drops off.
The SROD trans is a wide ratio 3 + overdrive trans (4 speed) never installed with 4 cyl and was the V8 trans until the T5 arrived.
My car has 3.08 rear. I have an 89 Ranger (which is really trashed) but has a running "speed density" EFI 2300 with a 3.73 rear. I also have a complete 7.5" Fox rear that is 3.08 w Traction Loc. Eventually I'll pull the 3.73 ring & pinion out of the Ranger & join it with the Traction Loc. I want to buy a close ratio T5 (2.95 first gear and 0.80 overdrive 5th - they exist ! ) to install in Capri. I'm pretty sure it will bolt up to my present bell housing (your German trans bellhousing won't bolt up to a T5). I'll have to have T5 input shaft machined to 2300 specs to mate w 2300 pilot bearing. A Merkur aftermarket supplier made a pilot bushing to make the swap without machining but I've heard too many stories of it failing in 2 weeks. I'm pretty sure I won't have to shorten my driveshaft, but I'd sure like to get an aluminum driveshaft from Ford Racing. They used to sell for about $150 but now are about $300 (too much). I've already had flywheel lightened by about 4 lbs and it really helps in 1st & 2nd. I can take at least one more pound out of the outer diameter near the starter ring gear.
I expect this changeover to help acceleration at all speeds. With the 3.73 & 0.80 OD the final ratio works out to 2.94. I wouldn't expect freeway gas mileage to increase much (presently up to 33mpg) but my local driving could improve a bit (presently 28 in the summer when driven with care).
I hope this helps you out in some manner and I invite questions & comments from all on this site.

[Travis T]

The other transmission in the early Fox four cylinder cars was the all aluminum case RAD transmission. Every 2.3 four speed car I've had save one had the RAD transmission.

[rogelioifmradio]

some one her told me a few years a go that the 4 speed tranny was a toploader.. at least on mexican made foxes

[xctasy]

Any American designed Ford gearbox is the better gearbox. Ford only ever changes a gearbox because of cost or a need quality price trade off. The SR 4 speed was a built down to a price Toploader, unable to take 60% of the shock loadings a good Top Loader can take.

A well sorted 64-75 non overdrive 4 speed Top Loader from a small block, without Liberty cut gears is one of the worlds strongest gearboxes for the dollar around; with the right close ratio gearset, it will cope with the 380 lb-ft in a 3500 car with 351 cubes, or 160 mph hilly endurance racing with out fusing up. The best a standard SR 4-speed is capable of regularly digesting is probably 240 lb-ft of torque from a 302 with 3000 pounds. Ford didn't need to over engineer gearboxes for Fox bodies when they weren't providing for 271 hp K codes or 375 hp Super Cobra Jets, and the SR gearbox was a much lighter item that used a good deal of Toploader architecture.

The mid 70's to late 80's Single Rail was branded as an SR Borg Warner gearbox, but was outsourced by Ford and made by what is now Tremec in Mexico...but it was based on the Ford Toploader 3.03" (77mm) main shaft to layshaft centre spacing of the 1964 Toploader gearbox. In Australia, Borg Warner gear supplied Ford, Chrysler, and then Leyland for engines from 200 to 351 cubic from 1972, with as little as 106 hp to as much as 306 hp, and torque from as little 150 lb-ft to as much as 315 lb-ft . In iron case versions, a good 4-bbl 351C with just 300 hp and 380 lb-ft would break an Aussie Borg Warner Single rail. There were many US market Ford and AMC versions of the Single Rail, and it was further downgraded in some versions with cheaper casings, and is even less capable.

As main shaft to layshaft spacing goes up, so does strength, they are proportional if all else is the same. The Single Rail was really a reduced cost top loader, with integral shifter to improve shift. In practice, it wasn't as strong, but used a scrambling of standard Toploader parts to create a non over drive 1:1 or Over drive 0.81 or 0.72 top gear. It's a very smart gearbox, a Toploader 3 speed with a special direct or overdrive top gear. Branded either SR or SROD, you'll find it won't be any stronger than a non world class T5, an SROD can break under yeomans duty with just a 157 or 175 hp 302 2 or 4-bbl, and that's why Ford replaced it with the T4 and T5 Borg Warner boxes when the 5.0 started getting proper power back in the mid 80's. 240 foot pounds in a 3000 pound car is about it for hard use, then it breaks bits, like the ages old common Toploader fault of fusing the 3rd gear on the main shaft and not being able to change gear.


The lighter duty German gearbox is certainly not a bad gearbox at all, it was an optimization of the many European/ British gearboxes with a derivative 2.77" (70 mm) mainshaft to layshaft spacing that Ford Of Europe made. The first Dagenham (British) 4 speed gearbox in the early six cylinder Mustangs had the same generic dimensions as the later Geramn 4-speed Hummer gearboxes, but the German Cologne and British Dagenham plants cranked them out with variations from the first six cylinder Zephyrs since 1962, and kept doing it tll that late 80's when it got replaced by the MT 75 mm 5 speed in Europe around 1988. It generally had a limit of about 205 foot pounds behind a 2.8 to 3 liter engine in a 2800 pound car, at best. Ford Europe then, since about 1986, used the US T5 as a step up option in cars with over 200 lb-ft, like the Turbo Sierra Cosworth. Funny thing is, the Sierra based Merkur XR4Ti's with 195 lb-ft got the Type 9 N type version of the 4 speed German gearbox. Then Ford of Europe made there own MT 75 so they didn't have to use T5's or Mazda M5OD's.

The 1981 Turbo 188 hp Capri 2.8 used the variation of the 2.3 Fox Mustang gearbox, and it had 206 lb-ft.

And that is how I know that around 205 lb-ft is the practical limit at best for this little gearbox.

So the light duty German 4-speed gearbox isn't really capable of easily taking the early carb 2.3 Turbo's torque, and certainly not the later GT spec 2.3 EEC IV EFI Turbo's found in Fox's or Merkurs.

That's why the SR 4-speed is around.

[PaceFever79]

Interesting breakdown! But you left out the turbo 2.3 RAD 4 speed?

[Travis T]

A lot of the 2.3 NA cars used the same RAD four as the turbo cars. Same goes for some Pintos and Mustang IIs also.

[xctasy]

Interesting breakdown! But you left out the turbo 2.3 RAD 4 speed?

Yeah, I did because its somewhat complicated...


The non overdrive Borg Warner Single Rail, SR4 are the model RAD, which has a bunch of early T4 and T5 components. The 5 speed Cosworth Vega gave birth to the T5 gearbox in 1976, since Chev, AMC and Jeep needed a Toploader style trans, Borg Warner essentially recased the 3.03 engineering as a purely BW gearbox. Doug Nash was doing the same with the BW T10. Dough Nash and Tremec did the same with the T10 in the 80's, upgraded it to become the 5 speed.

The SR4's in the 2.3 Turbo's are subsets of Fords Toploader (3.03/Tremec T-170/ HEH/ RUG) , as Borg Warners Single rail SR4/RAD was designed to fit Jeeps and AMC's and another smaller Single Rail T50 five speed to fit the Chevy Vega Cosworths and slope-tailed 78 260cid Cutlass S. Then it was outsourced to Tremec, and became the various versions of the RAD/RUC.

The non overdrive SR is a pure Borg Warner, while the SROD is based on the last Toploader, the RUG. The SROD is essentially a downgraded Toploader.

FoxChassis said it first.

4 = TREMEC
6 = Borg Warner
7 = Hummer

The German ET/Hummer/Rocket 4 speed had a threaded ring and locking tab only on the Ford Cortina MKIII/Pinto/Bobcat/71-78 Capri tailshaft housing. The Fox Mustang-Capri version has the 3 bolt attachment type like the SROD. For reverse you push the shifter down and shift into first.

[80Notch]

lol second one i got was shot...scrapped everything 2.3 related in my car