Is this a 351w or 351m?

[casper]

saw this on craig's today...

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/pts/4067216973.html

[79Coupe]

Looks like a windsor to me. I belive the modified is an FE motor

[wraithracing]

That would be a Windsor. The 351M uses a plate to cover the timing chain as the cover is part of the block.

Trey

[79Coupe]

... and the 351 M is largely junk....

[GT40Capri]

That is very much a Windsor.

The M is, for all intents and purposes, a tall-deck Cleveland (10.2 inch deck heght as opposed to the C's 9.2) and looks just like one.

[casper]

thanks guys, I might be checking this one out...

[FM2NOTCH]

Looks like a windsor to me. I belive the modified is an FE motor

definitely a 351W,

351M is from the cleveland family and is a destroked 400 which was a taller decked ,stroked 351C to replace the old FE engine, the 400/351m share the same block and have bellhousing and engine mounts of a 429/460 except for some rare 73'ish 400's that had provisions for the W 302,351 bellhousing pattern, the pantera guys will pay good money for one.

[Ourobos]

69-93 351w (no roller provisions)

[JACook]

... and the 351 M is largely junk....

Tell that to Jon Kaase... The M probably has more EMC wins to it's credit than any other engine.

[FM2NOTCH]

Tell that to Jon Kaase... The M probably has more EMC wins to it's credit than any other engine.

x2 glad you mentioned it

[gmatt]

Looks like a windsor to me. I belive the modified is an FE motor

FE is another Ford engine family that includes 352, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428, 427SOHC and a few other versions. Mostly available during the '60's early '70's.

[JACook]

FE is another Ford engine family that includes 352, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428, 427SOHC and a few other versions. Mostly available during the '60's early '70's.

... and shares it's basic architecture with the FT series, which lived on in heavy trucks through around '78.

[Ken P]

Six bolts on the valve cover make it a Windsor. That's the quick check.

[FM2NOTCH]

Six bolts on the valve cover make it a Windsor. That's the quick check.

and horizontal fuel pump bolts on a 302/351w (. .)vs vertical bolts on a 351C,351M,400 ( : )

also notice the rib on the front running down from the distributor area and the distance from the timing cover to head/deck surface, this is how to tell it's a 351, on a 302 the head/deck is very close to the timing cover and no rib.

[Ken P]

...and the distance from the timing cover to head/deck surface, this is how to tell it's a 351, on a 302 the head/deck is very close to the timing cover...

Knew this but didn't know about the fuel pump bolt holes and the rib / reinforcement.

[79Coupe]

Tell that to Jon Kaase... The M probably has more EMC wins to it's credit than any other engine.

I will gladly tell him!!

..... and then buy a couple sets of his cylinder heads

[PaceFever79]

Nothing wrong with Cleveland 2v heads (also on the 351M and 400). With light porting just to clean up the castings and a little shave for compression, they flow as well as small street style aluminum Windsor heads in the 170-180cc range. The Trick Flow heads actually borrow from the Cleveland canted valve architecture. Back in the day I built a few late 70s F250 HiBoys and Broncos with mildly modified 351m and they ran great. I sort of developed a reputation as the one to take your truck to for more power. With a little head work, mild street cam, headers, aluminum intake and 750 VC carb you can get about 300 HP from these engines, even more from a 400. My trucks were more than a match for the local Chevy and Mopar small blocks. What killed the reputation of these motors was what killed every other V8 in the 1970s, low 8-1 compression, and a lame camshaft to run on 87 octane unleaded fuel. The 351m/400 never got a chance to realize its full potential, so it was a victim of its time more than anything. With good 4v or aftermarket heads these motors can be downright wicked. And they sound awesome! Nothing sounds like a Cleveland. I always had a soft spot for all Clevelands.

[JACook]

Oddly enough, Kaase's last EMC winner was topped with Australian CHI "3V" Cleveland heads, which
have been more than competitive in past competitions. But all that aside, if you'll recall Kaase's
first EMC-winning 351C, he used some ~1" thick "head gaskets" to basically raise the deck height.
IIRC, those "head gaskets" were promptly outlawed. But the tall-deck Cleveland blocks weren't.

But then, the EMC rule book has quite a few "Kaase rules" in it, and the LS still hasn't won one.
They even made a rule that said the winning builder couldn't build the same brand the next year.
Kaase went on to win the back-to-back with a Pontiac.

With the latest round of rules changes, maybe this will finally be the year of the LS. We'll see...

[PaceFever79]

Cool stuff....

Also in the 70s/80s NHRA and NASCAR had to alter their rules to offset Cleveland dominance.

[JACook]

Also in the 70s/80s NHRA and NASCAR had to alter their rules to offset Cleveland dominance.

Yeah, NHRA did it with weight, while NASCAR basically gave the Yates Cleveland head design
to the GM teams in the "SB2" era, and later to Dodge and Toyota.

[Dr.B]

i like the 351m/400m engines. parts cheep and with cam intake and exhaust they run very strong. i built my 400m in my 78 f150 with 4v heads, schneider cam, intake and exhaust and it pushed me down the quarter in 14.7 they are very underrated engines in my book.

[86 50CPRI]

A couple of other features nobody mentioned is the Windsor family has inline valves/rockers while the Cleveland/M heads have canted or staggered valves/rockers, which makes their valve covers considerably wider. Also, the thermostat sits in a recess horizontally in the block, vs in the intake vertically for the Windsor.

No experience with these, but I've heard the 2V 'Australian' heads are the way to go on a Cleveland; if you can find them.

[86GreenStang]

Also look for the "M" in the casting codes on early 351M's. The 351M's are considerably wider at the top end among other differences. The 351M is a truck only engine. It makes tons of torque at low rpm's, but it tends to fly apart when rpm's get between 4-5000 rpm. If your pulling a heavy trailer everyday it is a good option. If you want to race keeping looking.

[4idfox]

Oddly enough, Kaase's last EMC winner was topped with Australian CHI "3V" Cleveland heads, which
have been more than competitive in past competitions. But all that aside, if you'll recall Kaase's
first EMC-winning 351C, he used some ~1" thick "head gaskets" to basically raise the deck height.
IIRC, those "head gaskets" were promptly outlawed. But the tall-deck Cleveland blocks weren't.

But then, the EMC rule book has quite a few "Kaase rules" in it, and the LS still hasn't won one.
They even made a rule that said the winning builder couldn't build the same brand the next year.
Kaase went on to win the back-to-back with a Pontiac.

With the latest round of rules changes, maybe this will finally be the year of the LS. We'll see...

Doesn't look like it was the LS's year.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...final_results/

[bmchugh]

I love the Cleveland. Nothing sounds like it, and with a little work you get Big block power with small block weight. The oiling system was it's weak point, but Yes These were designed for racing apps.