saw this on craig's today...
http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/pts/4067216973.html
saw this on craig's today...
http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/pts/4067216973.html
Looks like a windsor to me. I belive the modified is an FE motor
I push my fingers into my eyes......
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Update - 2023 - Looking to buy 81 Mustang, 82/85/86 Mustang GT, and 79 - 86 Capri (No Sunroof). Not looking for all original/show cars or convertibles - I will be modifying. Would be nice if both were - Black Interior, PW, PL, AC, No - or very little rust. Motor/Trans/Axle not important. Options negotiable with price.
That would be a Windsor. The 351M uses a plate to cover the timing chain as the cover is part of the block.
Trey
Trey
"I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"
"I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."
Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
Current Mustangs:
1969 Mach 1
1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently
Current Capris:
1981 Capri Roller
1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
... and the 351 M is largely junk....
I push my fingers into my eyes......
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Update - 2023 - Looking to buy 81 Mustang, 82/85/86 Mustang GT, and 79 - 86 Capri (No Sunroof). Not looking for all original/show cars or convertibles - I will be modifying. Would be nice if both were - Black Interior, PW, PL, AC, No - or very little rust. Motor/Trans/Axle not important. Options negotiable with price.
That is very much a Windsor.
The M is, for all intents and purposes, a tall-deck Cleveland (10.2 inch deck heght as opposed to the C's 9.2) and looks just like one.
thanks guys, I might be checking this one out...
definitely a 351W,
351M is from the cleveland family and is a destroked 400 which was a taller decked ,stroked 351C to replace the old FE engine, the 400/351m share the same block and have bellhousing and engine mounts of a 429/460 except for some rare 73'ish 400's that had provisions for the W 302,351 bellhousing pattern, the pantera guys will pay good money for one.
Last edited by FM2NOTCH; 10-07-2013 at 04:28 PM.
*FOXTOBERFEST* 2015 http://www.foxmustangrestoration.com/events
85 T Top coupe 5.0 2R red, E7's, rpm intake, 4180 carb, 7.4 1/8
83 CC capri 5.0 5 speed,black mesh wheels
76 cobra II 302 auto black/gold, big cam 3 inch dumps- sold to a good friend
92 coupe 5.0 5 speed -red
92 Lx hatch 5.0 5 speed -black, 66 coupe 5.0 4 spd (project)
87 Vert 5.0 AOD red stock as a rock
" Are you sure you know what you're talking about? It kinda sounds like you know what you're talking about"
69-93 351w (no roller provisions)
1986 CHP SSP Coupe
Cheers,
Jeff Cook
'85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
'79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
'68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune
*FOXTOBERFEST* 2015 http://www.foxmustangrestoration.com/events
85 T Top coupe 5.0 2R red, E7's, rpm intake, 4180 carb, 7.4 1/8
83 CC capri 5.0 5 speed,black mesh wheels
76 cobra II 302 auto black/gold, big cam 3 inch dumps- sold to a good friend
92 coupe 5.0 5 speed -red
92 Lx hatch 5.0 5 speed -black, 66 coupe 5.0 4 spd (project)
87 Vert 5.0 AOD red stock as a rock
" Are you sure you know what you're talking about? It kinda sounds like you know what you're talking about"
Cheers,
Jeff Cook
'85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
'79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
'68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune
Six bolts on the valve cover make it a Windsor. That's the quick check.
86 LX Coupe 4E
84 SVO Watkins Glen Pace Car 1E
85 SVO Hertz 4E
85.5 SVO 2R orig owner
86 SVO 7B
66 Fastback
55 Willys Jeep Overland Wagon
and horizontal fuel pump bolts on a 302/351w (. .)vs vertical bolts on a 351C,351M,400 ( : )
also notice the rib on the front running down from the distributor area and the distance from the timing cover to head/deck surface, this is how to tell it's a 351, on a 302 the head/deck is very close to the timing cover and no rib.
Last edited by FM2NOTCH; 10-07-2013 at 08:49 PM.
*FOXTOBERFEST* 2015 http://www.foxmustangrestoration.com/events
85 T Top coupe 5.0 2R red, E7's, rpm intake, 4180 carb, 7.4 1/8
83 CC capri 5.0 5 speed,black mesh wheels
76 cobra II 302 auto black/gold, big cam 3 inch dumps- sold to a good friend
92 coupe 5.0 5 speed -red
92 Lx hatch 5.0 5 speed -black, 66 coupe 5.0 4 spd (project)
87 Vert 5.0 AOD red stock as a rock
" Are you sure you know what you're talking about? It kinda sounds like you know what you're talking about"
I push my fingers into my eyes......
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update - 2023 - Looking to buy 81 Mustang, 82/85/86 Mustang GT, and 79 - 86 Capri (No Sunroof). Not looking for all original/show cars or convertibles - I will be modifying. Would be nice if both were - Black Interior, PW, PL, AC, No - or very little rust. Motor/Trans/Axle not important. Options negotiable with price.
Nothing wrong with Cleveland 2v heads (also on the 351M and 400). With light porting just to clean up the castings and a little shave for compression, they flow as well as small street style aluminum Windsor heads in the 170-180cc range. The Trick Flow heads actually borrow from the Cleveland canted valve architecture. Back in the day I built a few late 70s F250 HiBoys and Broncos with mildly modified 351m and they ran great. I sort of developed a reputation as the one to take your truck to for more power. With a little head work, mild street cam, headers, aluminum intake and 750 VC carb you can get about 300 HP from these engines, even more from a 400. My trucks were more than a match for the local Chevy and Mopar small blocks. What killed the reputation of these motors was what killed every other V8 in the 1970s, low 8-1 compression, and a lame camshaft to run on 87 octane unleaded fuel. The 351m/400 never got a chance to realize its full potential, so it was a victim of its time more than anything. With good 4v or aftermarket heads these motors can be downright wicked. And they sound awesome! Nothing sounds like a Cleveland. I always had a soft spot for all Clevelands.
Last edited by PaceFever79; 10-08-2013 at 10:40 AM.
Oddly enough, Kaase's last EMC winner was topped with Australian CHI "3V" Cleveland heads, which
have been more than competitive in past competitions. But all that aside, if you'll recall Kaase's
first EMC-winning 351C, he used some ~1" thick "head gaskets" to basically raise the deck height.
IIRC, those "head gaskets" were promptly outlawed. But the tall-deck Cleveland blocks weren't.
But then, the EMC rule book has quite a few "Kaase rules" in it, and the LS still hasn't won one.
They even made a rule that said the winning builder couldn't build the same brand the next year.
Kaase went on to win the back-to-back with a Pontiac.
With the latest round of rules changes, maybe this will finally be the year of the LS. We'll see...
Last edited by JACook; 10-08-2013 at 10:47 AM.
Cheers,
Jeff Cook
'85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
'79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
'68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune
Cool stuff....
Also in the 70s/80s NHRA and NASCAR had to alter their rules to offset Cleveland dominance.
Cheers,
Jeff Cook
'85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
'79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
'68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune
i like the 351m/400m engines. parts cheep and with cam intake and exhaust they run very strong. i built my 400m in my 78 f150 with 4v heads, schneider cam, intake and exhaust and it pushed me down the quarter in 14.7 they are very underrated engines in my book.
A couple of other features nobody mentioned is the Windsor family has inline valves/rockers while the Cleveland/M heads have canted or staggered valves/rockers, which makes their valve covers considerably wider. Also, the thermostat sits in a recess horizontally in the block, vs in the intake vertically for the Windsor.
No experience with these, but I've heard the 2V 'Australian' heads are the way to go on a Cleveland; if you can find them.
Also look for the "M" in the casting codes on early 351M's. The 351M's are considerably wider at the top end among other differences. The 351M is a truck only engine. It makes tons of torque at low rpm's, but it tends to fly apart when rpm's get between 4-5000 rpm. If your pulling a heavy trailer everyday it is a good option. If you want to race keeping looking.
Doesn't look like it was the LS's year.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...final_results/
I love the Cleveland. Nothing sounds like it, and with a little work you get Big block power with small block weight. The oiling system was it's weak point, but Yes These were designed for racing apps.
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