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  1. #101
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    What you can do is grab some old cats, and flange joint them up to the area past the H pipe.

    With a proper air cleaner, it will sound much like this converted to dual seperates...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kmkYUJNH_g


    Basically, your trying to reduce flow pulses without hurting average gas speed. In scientific terms, you are attemting to reduce peak sound pressure by making the gas flow more lamina, and less urbulent. Adding a honeycomb substrate polarises air flow to a more uniform, linear direction, without hurting back pressure.


    When car engineers measure peak sound on the way to 60 mph, and at 60 mph constant, they pick the exhasut that shows the lowest increase in sound, but that still has the least backpressure. Cataysts do this as a consequnce of the catalystic substrate woven into the pipe. It does the best job of reducing emissons and muffling sound peaks.


    For instance, the 1982 5.0 HO 2-bbl Capri and Mustang only had a primary catalyst on the passenger side, and one catayst under the transmission. No muffler was required. The cats did the fume mop up, emissions compliance, and created the best sounding carb smog engine ever.

  2. #102

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    So I stumbled upon this thread in looking at what I can do to gain some horse power.

    I have a 1974 Mustang II Ghia with the American 2.8l v6.. I haven't made 100% sure which I have but I have either the 32/36 Weber carburetor or 38.. DGEV. From what I can tell the motor is not modified same with the heads. I did have to replace the distrubuter about a year ago.

    From what I was reading:

    US 2800 has supprisngly good air flow but the US 2.8 is mising port area, and compression, and camshaft duration

    The US Colgne head was well designed, needs a good de-dag and some better valves. To raise compression, you deck the head, and cut back the manifold. Or go to the European pistons

    Does that about sum it up or did I miss something?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fears2fatalashes View Post
    So I stumbled upon this thread in looking at what I can do to gain some horse power.

    I have a 1974 Mustang II Ghia with the American 2.8l v6.. I haven't made 100% sure which I have but I have either the 32/36 Weber carburetor or 38.. DGEV. From what I can tell the motor is not modified same with the heads. I did have to replace the distrubuter about a year ago.

    From what I was reading:

    US 2800 has supprisngly good air flow but the US 2.8 is mising port area, and compression, and camshaft duration

    The US Colgne head was well designed, needs a good de-dag and some better valves. To raise compression, you deck the head, and cut back the manifold. Or go to the European pistons

    Does that about sum it up or did I miss something?
    Sorry for a delayed reply. For the engine we rebuilt, I did the porting recommendations from the book: How to Build and Modify Ford 60 Degrees V-6 Engines by Sven Pruett.

    The book actually never recommended decking the heads. I'd have to pull it out and reread that part to clarify the reasons why. Also the machine shop that did my line boring, honing and short blocking never recommended changing the cam for a "stock" engine as they said it was good. We did have a three angle valve job and valve grind done. We also added a dual exhaust to the smoothed out factory siamese exhaust manifolds.

    To date we are happy with the performance other than the want to change to a manual from the C3 in it now.

  4. #104
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Okay, confession time.

    Cam duration was the same!. A racey 276 intake and 278 exhaust. Just like the first E303 roller cam 5.0's practically! No wonder they all lacklow end to lower mid range punch!


    tCarbs, well, hers another funny one. The 2150 Motorcraft 2.8 V6 Carb is 1.14 = 300 CFM.


    The VV2700 Carbs flowed about the same.


    The 38 Solex or 38 DGAS European carbs each were about 300 cfm at 1.5"Hg as well.

    The US Holley Weber 5200 with 26/27 venturis was rated at 227 cfm at 1.5"Hg.

    The later US Holley Weber 5200 with with 23/27 mm venturis, less about 198 cfm at 1.5"Hg IIRC. That one later version has the 3 mm smaller primary barrel to make it more economical, but even less hp is made due to the loss of air flow.


    Due to the cars they were on , Holley rated them as 270 and 235 cfm respectively, essentially rated at a strange 28 inches of water or 2.1" Hg.

    I've recieved a number of emails over the land mark up to 45% loss in peak power suffered in the worst version of the 2.8, the restricted exhaust 1980 Pinto 2.8. 93 hp verses a stalwart 135 hp from its domiciled European home market 2.8 in the Euro Capri and Euro Granada. That is a very sick patient indeed to lose that much power, and it wasn't a Gross hp verses net thing.


    For all the US guys who are wondering where the 42 to 26 horsepower went in the 2.8's journey from Koln to Dearborn, I referenced it here. The low end torque incidently stayed the same for the 2-bbl engines on both sides of the Atlantic...the loss was purley peak horsepower.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ropean-changes.


    I listed 8 points, but missed the important info over piston deck height, even though the block had the same casting, the pistons differed.


    Item 9 :...that European Pistons were taller than the US market 2.8's, and gave the additional 9.2:1 compression ratio verses a claimed 8.7:1. Based on the Mahale pistons depth difference, I'd say the US 2.8 was most likely an 8.2:1 compression engine.


    To recap, other points were:-

    Item 1 : The European V6's had the V4 siamese exhaust ports with even intake spacings, the US 2.8 the V4 Saab 96 competition intake and dual port adaptor exhaust to make each head it a very non uniform inlet and out let pitch six port head. US Flow figures were inferior on the exhaust according to Ganahrl, supperior to the best 3.0 Essex 60 degree engines on intake according to US flow bench tests.

    Item 2: The induction on the US engines had a new intake manifold with different port spacings. On top, either the 90 degree "Right Angle" intake adaptor on some versions, and a US Holley Weber 5200 carb, or a VV2700 or 2150 Motorcraft direct mount. It depended on application.

    Item 3: European Bosch points or Bosch Electronic in European, or on US versions, the Duraspark and Duraspark II igntion.

    Item 4: Unbelievabily, Same European Cam timing on the US 2.8. Not changed. The stock 109 degree lobe center on 135 hp and 93/104/109 US engines was changed on the 150 and 160 hp Fuel Injection engines to a wide 115, but the timing and lift was always the same 276 degrees intake /278 degrees exhaust with 388 thou intake lift and 382 thou exhaust lift

    Item 5: Emissions gear. EGR, air pump, carb, TVS valves, all different.

    Item 6: Front cover had minor changes to suit the air pump and power steering and air condtioning options common on some of the US engines

    Item 7: Wide ratio 4 Speed gearboxes were all European 2.8'S got close ratio 4 or 5 speed 3 bolt T9 Merkur gearboxes. 3 Speed self shifters the same C3 French auto.

    Item 8: Hp variation of 93 to 104 or 109 hp (down 42 to 26 hp from the German 135 hp engine)

    Based on this info, a 5.0 Explorer/ 1975-1983 351 M / 400 Ford style split intake duration and exhaust duration cam that Steve recomended

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethyl Cat View Post
    Do not remember if this was an auto or stick, or whether you had taken measures to increase compression, but I would not run a 276 duration cam in that engine if it is pertaining to the intake lobe. The exhaust is a different story.

    I did give more of a race type cam example in an earlier post that had 270 on the intake, but I do not think you are in that realm of operation with this project.

    I would recommend something like a 254/276 224/230 .480/.390 on a 109 +7

    Should pull hard to 5000 or so and have about 200lb/ft just off idle
    " would recommend something like a 254/276 224/230 .480/.390 on a 109 +7"

    and the 3T Toyota valve and 255 (4.2 Vee 8 ) pistons would go a long way to creating a lot more off idle to low and mid range punch.

  5. #105
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Darran, talking of easy rebuild options.


    Did you get a SROD Four speed and bellhousing for your 1979 from Chuck W?

    I was looking for a downshift linkage part number from your 1973-1979 FoMoCo parts disc, and came accross this, a factory 1979 Fox.


    Quote Originally Posted by SycloneDan View Post
    I will start by saying hello to everyone this will be my first post on this forum.

    Last week i came across a 1979 Mercury Capri. The car was posted on craigslist for 800 dollars. It is a 2.8 liter 4 speed car with almost no options. Crank windows, manual locks, no radio, but it does have a console and A/C. Overall the body is in very good shape. I have not been able to find a dent on the car anywhere and there is very minimal rust. The rockers right behind the back tires both have about a half dollar sized hole and the front frame rail underneath where the battery goes. I am the second owner the old man I it from bought it new in San Antoinio Texas. He got deployed with the air force 6 months after he got it. When he came back he got sent to Wichita KS this is where the car is currently located. He parked it in 2005 when the A/C failed. I picked it up for 800 dollars. Put it on my buddy's car trailer and drug it home. The next day I put a battery in it and poured a little gas down the carb and it fired up like it had been sitting for 7 days instead of 7 years. Yesterday I rebuilt the carb due to a leaking accellerator pump. It runs very well other than a burning a large amount of oil. My plan for the car is to make it and autocross car. It will get a set of Koni adjustable shocks and theri lowering springs to go with it. Also a 2.5 turn rack, subframe connectors, strut tower brace, and GT sway bars.
















  6. #106
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Additional question, . Related to making the little 2.8 haul.

    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    As far as I am aware, the 2.8 bell housing was one year only. IIRC the Mustang II used the RAD transmission, not the SROD.

    Ask me how I know? I actually found one to change our 2.8 from the C3 to the SROD.

    Put an ad in the classifieds. Someone may have one around somewhere. No one keep a 2.8 these days do they?

    Two questions.

    1. Do you have the factory V6 Manual SROD part numbers and references from your ealier 2014 posts on the parts manual for 73-79 cars.

    2. There was a downshift linkage diagram for the C3 V6, C3/C4/C5 I6 and C4 V8 Foxes and X shells, but I cannot find it anymore.

    It was a 9728 series Ford BP number.

    The US Mustang and Capri C3 auto downshift rod was very different to the Lokar style downshift cable used on the Weber DGAS 36/38 OR Solex 35/38 2-bbl equiped European Cortina, Tanuas, Cortina and Granada with the Cologne 2.3 or 2.8 V6.

    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME
    From what I can decipher out of the maze in the parts manual. Confusing to find things when there are 4-speed "Ford style", 4-speed "German Style", SR4 (RAD) and SROD all in there. Also from what I could see was the 3-speed was available on the 73-77 Bronco/Maverick/Torino, 75-78 Granada and 78 Fairmonts

    (PS: my parts manual disc is for 73-79 cars so I cannot say if these were used in later years)

    75-78 Fairmont/Granada and 79 Granada w/302: D5DZ 6392-A
    79 Mustang/Fairmont w/302: D9ZZ 6392-C




    Oh, and the bell I would like for the 79 2.8 is a one year only.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Darran, talking of easy rebuild options.

    Did you get a SROD Four speed and bellhousing for your 1979 from Chuck W?

    I was looking for a downshift linkage part number from your 1973-1979 FoMoCo parts disc, and came accross this, a factory 1979 Fox.
    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Additional question, . Related to making the little 2.8 haul.

    Two questions.

    1. Do you have the factory V6 Manual SROD part numbers and references from your ealier 2014 posts on the parts manual for 73-79 cars.

    2. There was a downshift linkage diagram for the C3 V6, C3/C4/C5 I6 and C4 V8 Foxes and X shells, but I cannot find it anymore.

    It was a 9728 series Ford BP number.

    The US Mustang and Capri C3 auto downshift rod was very different to the Lokar style downshift cable used on the Weber DGAS 36/38 OR Solex 35/38 2-bbl equiped European Cortina, Tanuas, Cortina and Granada with the Cologne 2.3 or 2.8 V6.
    xctasy, you caught me away on vacation! Thanks for the pictures too. I've slowly collected Tangerine car pictures as they come up these days. Never saw a Tangerine Capri let alone RS before,

    To answer your questions:

    1. I did get the bell housing with fork from Chuck. Missing the cover and a bunch of other little parts, flywheel etc. I somewhat have an idea what I need but the easiest may be to find an entire donor car to get all of the correct parts. The car runs good and may stay with the auto until some other projects are completed first!

    2. Can't recall if I ever posted the downshift linkage pic or not. My PDF CD is a PIA due to being protected and cannot copy/paste or snip out of it. The ones I posted before are picture screen shots and I cannot see where I saved it.

    7A187 is the linkage group number.

    2.8L 171 (2800)
    C3 part number: D9ZZ-7A187-B
    C4 part number: D9ZZ-7A187-C
    C4 part number (CA only): D9ZZ-7A187-B

    Let me know if you need others.

  8. #108
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    I missed updating this thread as I had neared completion of the rebuild. This was posted in my other build thread. Dyno numbers!

    This was October 2018. http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...=1#post1894366

    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    The car has been running good. I don't get out much with car guys and had an invite to a local cruising club - mainly newer cars - BBQ at a local shop that also does tunes and has a dyno. Not all went for the dyno test but a decent turn out for the end of October!

    I'm not too shy to put the little V6 up there! $20 for two pulls.


    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Wow, that's in fine fettle, Darran!

    The European 2.8 2-bbl carb engine for that year made 135 flywheel bhp net at 5200 rpm, and 159 ft-lb at 3000 rpm.

    See https://www.automobile-catalog.com/c...8_v6_ghia.html

    The USA 1979 Mustang 2.8 flywheel figures were 109 hp (SAE net) at 4800 rpm and 142 ft-lb at 2800

    See https://www.automobile-catalog.com/c..._2_8l_v-6.html

    Compression ratio drop from Euro to Federal US Spec was from 9.2:1 to 8.7:1 originally.

    The C3 transmission loss is greater than the manual SR4's of about 1.26, and from my research, 1.45 is typical.

    96 bhp at 4496 rpm --->139 hp

    131 lb-ft at 3641 rpm --->190 lb-ft

    That's quite a lot more than the 109 hp and 142 lb-ft.

    The porting, igntion and carb detailing have worked a treat. Well done!

  9. #109
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Thanx; really helpfull. Hope you've had s great vacation.!


    The flywheel was listed in the V6 Perfornance book by Pst Ganrhal as having a stock manual bellhousing with imperisl driilings for the SROD.

  10. #110

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    Wow! I have a rust free 79 RS that was originally tangerine stripped down to a shell right now. I have been tempted to cut it down to patch up my favorite fox but seeing those pics I will not be able to bring myself to do that. It needs to be rebuilt. Too cool.

  11. #111

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    Been a fun read

    A buddy of mine raced a 2.8 in a Capri MKI (US 1969-74) in SCCA GT-2 Club racing. He blew it up half a dozen years ago, and we set out to build a better Cologne GT-2 motor.

    Mark lobbied to get the 2.9 accepted as an alternate motor, and World 2.9 heads as an acceptable alternate head for that engine. So the chase was on.

    Eventually, I built a 2.9. Took half a dozen years, trying to spread the build over time to spread cost out. Had a guy I knew in Ohio port the World Heads (I had him do 3, and have 2 additional as spares), then set out on the bottom end. 5.4" SBF rods, Diamond forged pistons, 600 Holley on a modified Offy 2.6 manifold, solid lifter cam replacing the hydraulic, re-ratio'd rockers, DSII distributor. All in, it cost [cough] waytoomuchmoney [cough]. But it was a fun project, even though it looks like it will never fire.

    SCCA screwed up GT-2 by dumping cars in that were way faster than the then currently legal cars.

    Maybe if I ever convert my Aero Nose Mustang to a track toy, I'll drop it in instead of a SBF. It's always more fun to run a slow car fast than a fast car slow. Less horsepower means I'd need to drive it as a momentum car, like the MGB I vintage raced a number of years ago.

    Anyway, the thread brought back memories of that cute littl motor sitting down in the barn...

  12. #112

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    If memory serves the bellhousing for the SROD and more modern transmissions like the TKO are essentially just about the same. Can't remember for sure but thought I'd mention it in case it ever happens to help someone. OR for that matter in case someone needs to correct these dusty old brain cells that get occasionally submerged in my favorite bourbons.

  13. #113

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    A good mod for the 2.8 V6 is to drill the water passages between the exhaust port as recommended by Sven P in His Book How to build a 60 degree V6 FORD.

    The 2.8 Siamese heads are noted for cracking due to excessive heat. Drilling the water passages helps cool between the valves.

    I do all of mine immediately upon tear down. Also I add the 2.9 Valves which help the little 2.8 V6 breath.... Makes it come alive
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