No-dollar driver

[cbncoupe]

Hey guys. Recent new owner of a total POS LTD LX. Trying to spend as little or no money fixing this heap to drive.

Its an 85 with CFI. I got it fired up today and it runs rough. The drivers side bank seemed to be heating up a bit. Im thinking this is due to the manifold valve being closed or partially anyway. Gas gauge doesnt work.....I'll just put a 2 gallon container in the trunk.

So, heres my questions:

1. Will a stock Mustang manifold "shorty header" reach the stock Y pipe without the valve in place or do I have to replace the pipe to the header?

2. I will be removing the emissions garbage, gutting the thermactor so its an idler and plugging all the vacuum lines. What issues will this cause?

3. Why do I subject myself to working on whooped-out junk like this? ;]

So, I'll try to post pics of what Im doing with this beast. I dont plan on any beautification at all so dont hassle me on that. This thing is ugly and will remain that way.....in fact, I may make it more hideous. I have an old beaten set of D-slots I will spray-bomb black and put 2 may-pops (used tires) on.....2 have good ones already. I scored a pair of nice used front calipers and some pads but still looking for a pair of decent rotors. I have other assorted crumbs laying around for it but I think I need to drive it around a bit to see what will fall off before I go replacing things for fun. My main goal is to have a dependable driver for little or no money spent on parts. I have access to all the Mustang parts I need and can do 99% of the work myself.

This is basically a Mad Max type of ride and will be treated as such. Still thinking of what license plate to get for it. Options are:

GUV NA
NITERIDR
GOOSE
BOMBER
RDWORIOR

Ideas welcome.

[Marz]

Good luck on spending very little money on it. It's a 28 year old car.

The valve you are speaking of is suppose to stay shut to help warm the car up a little faster. It's default setting is open. You can unplug the vacuum line to the valve and plug the line.

For the exhaust from a mustang you can swap it on. But you will need the hangers and the double hump trans crossmember from said mustang IF you want to go true duals. You will also need to convert from a dual pump system to a single pump system. You will also need the metal fuel lines from a t-coupe or mk vii. You can use the Mustang shorty headers but you will need to have a custom y-pipe for them to work with the factory exhaust.

There really is no gain from removing the emissions equipment. That is a myth that people seem to keep believing.

Moelll, LTDScott and I have our own threads on building up our LTD's. Take a look at them.

[cbncoupe]

Good luck on spending very little money on it. It's a 28 year old car.

The valve you are speaking of is suppose to stay shut to help warm the car up a little faster. It's default setting is open. You can unplug the vacuum line to the valve and plug the line.


For the exhaust from a mustang you can swap it on. But you will need the hangers and the double hump trans crossmember from said mustang IF you want to go true duals. You will also need to convert from a dual pump system to a single pump system. You will also need the metal fuel lines from a t-coupe or mk vii. You can use the Mustang shorty headers but you will need to have a custom y-pipe for them to work with the factory exhaust.

There really is no gain from removing the emissions equipment. That is a myth that people seem to keep believing.

I know I'll have to spend a few clams here and there but dont want to dump a bunch of cash into a beater. Make it dependable and drive it.

My fear is that its stuck closed or whatever the warm up position is. Im thinking I will have to put the Mustang headers on it and have the Y pipe made. Im also removing the cat so I will just have the whole system replaced.

Not looking for gain, just getting rid of 28 year old potential issues as well as ease of access to work on it.

[Marz]

This is an actual LTD LX? The LTD with the V8? I understand that you probably know what you're talking about and it is. But some people don't and think the v6 model was too.

Ok, so its an 85 LTD LX in the gray color. Most common color for the 85 was white. Next was black. You just don't see them in the gray. Personally I feel you should show it more respect and treat it better.

Regardless, they don't call them the 'four door Mustang' for nothing. Anything you can do to a Mustang you can do to an LTD LX. Many peoe have done it.

Hell, I have a turbo coule disc rear in my LTD. fits fine. Had to roll the fenders. Car is starting to get complements on the way it looks and sounds.

[cbncoupe]

Well, the car is not in the best shape. The doors have rust holes, the tail lights are cracked and butyled together, the paint is basically gone and the fact remains that I dont want to spend a ton of money on it. Im already not looking forward to doing a manifold/header change, new exhaust isnt cheap. I can get Mustang headers for nothing but the manifold bolts dont look ready to come out without a fight. I have a feeling I will have to do something about fuel pumps, I think it may be running on low pressure only. I still have to do the brakes and test drive it to see what else needs fixing. Knowing all this is in my future, Im not too worried about the way it looks. I feel Im respecting the vehicle for what it is as well as the fact that Im trying to resurrect it from a slow death via previous owner.

So, yes, its an actual LX car with the HO motor. I've been dealing with Foxes my whole life so I know them well. Just never dealt with this version of the injection and several years ago swore off working on this kind of project. Not afraid to get dirty just hate rust in my eyes and oil on my driveway.

Anyway, tonights project will include taking pics of it so you all know what Im dealing with. Im going to get it in the air and check out the under things. Hopefully the fuel pump is working properly.

[Marz]

Here is mine.

[Marz]

Well, the car is not in the best shape. The doors have rust holes, the tail lights are cracked and butyled together, the paint is basically gone and the fact remains that I dont want to spend a ton of money on it. Im already not looking forward to doing a manifold/header change, new exhaust isnt cheap. I can get Mustang headers for nothing but the manifold bolts dont look ready to come out without a fight. I have a feeling I will have to do something about fuel pumps, I think it may be running on low pressure only. I still have to do the brakes and test drive it to see what else needs fixing. Knowing all this is in my future, Im not too worried about the way it looks. I feel Im respecting the vehicle for what it is as well as the fact that Im trying to resurrect it from a slow death via previous owner.

So, yes, its an actual LX car with the HO motor. I've been dealing with Foxes my whole life so I know them well. Just never dealt with this version of the injection and several years ago swore off working on this kind of project. Not afraid to get dirty just hate rust in my eyes and oil on my driveway.

Anyway, tonights project will include taking pics of it so you all know what Im dealing with. Im going to get it in the air and check out the under things. Hopefully the fuel pump is working properly.

Talk to Meolll. He still has the Bosch external pump that I had on my ltd lx. I'll let him know about this thread. Maybe you and him can work out a deal for it. This pump is $100 new. And don't go with anything other than the Bosch external. The Chinese ones are crap.

The Taillights. Look for the better 86 Marquis taillights. Most of us convert over to the better looking 86 only Marquis taillights. But, any one will due.

Ok. I figured you weren't ignorant on this stuff. Had to be sure though.

You may want to start gathering all the parts for an SEFI conversion. There are threads here on how moelll and I had done ours. Cr@p Fuel Injection (CFI) is horrible.

I look forward to more pictures!

[cbncoupe]

Here is mine.

See, now thats nice. Mine looks just like it......after 8 years at the bottom of a river maybe....wait for the pics, you'll see why I dont want to spend any money on it.

By the way, when I fired it up, it shook like it wanted to throw the throttle body off the top of itself. Actually kind of scared me for a second.

As for the SEFI conversion, I do have access to many many parts....was just there Saturday too, its like a candy store. I could build 4 cars if I had the sheet metal.

[cbncoupe]

Ok, heres mine.
Arse

Racing stripes?

Tiller

Door vents

Becoming a light weight.


So now you know why I dont want to spend any money on it. I may patch the floor and put doors on it in the future but thats the extent of the effort. Krylon or Plastidip may get me back to one color but for now, the rain is my wash bucket.

[moelll]

If you need any inspiration, here's some before and after pics of my ltd



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[Marz]

And his was found in a field!

[Matt J]

"May pops". I like it. I also think your "racing stripes" look a little like flames. Kind of natural ones.

I'd leave the emissions stuff alone unless it's causing you an issue. When it works, it's fine, when it doesn't, well, it really doesn't do much to hurt you either. You might find some good used doors a the scrapyard, I can't imagine they'd cost much...

[cbncoupe]

If you need any inspiration, here's some before and after pics of my ltd



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You live out west though, no salt. I have to say if mine was half as nice as yours, I would not be mad at it right now.

[cbncoupe]

So, todays update:

I drove it out of the hole beside the garage and put it on ramps to get underneath. My fuel pump is working and the "warm up valve" on the LH manifold seems to be working. It ran a bit better today than yesterday and all cylinders seem to be firing, or they were anyway. I checked timing, 3*.....yup, 3, not 2, not 4....3. So, I did what anyone would do, retrieved my timing light, dist wrench and with the number 12 in my head, started in. Once I looked in there to align said wrench to the attaching bolt, I notice plenty of crud around the base of the block/distributor. I got the Kroil and after several liberal douses, some banging with a prybar and hammer at the base and countless failed maneuvers to twist it free, I decided to remove the AC compressor and have at it with some channel locks. Success!! It began to move. Slowly I got it freed up and actually popped it up a bit to get some Kroil in there and lube it up. Ok, so now reassemble everything, replace missing convolute on the wiring, plug it back in and guess what.....yup, my pounding on it, although careful not to touch the module, had apparently knocked its brains out. Now nothing, just turns over. I checked for spark and nothing. Defeated on the day. Now its taking up precious space in my driveway, up on ramps and dead. This makes me like it less.

Oh well, live to wrench another day. May not have a chance to work on it until Thursday at the earliest. Enjoy.

[cbncoupe]

"May pops". I like it. I also think your "racing stripes" look a little like flames. Kind of natural ones.

I'd leave the emissions stuff alone unless it's causing you an issue. When it works, it's fine, when it doesn't, well, it really doesn't do much to hurt you either. You might find some good used doors a the scrapyard, I can't imagine they'd cost much...

I may just remove the cat, I cant say I trust it not to be restricting the system. I also will be getting 85 GT headers and a Y pipe for it. I know I have to put the bung and O2 sensor back in but thats easy.

Flames, I'll keep that in mind if things keep going like today.

[cbncoupe]

Ok, after fighting with the distributor, it wont start. I bought a new TFI, still wont start. So now I have an extra.

I dont want to just start throwing parts at it because thats not logical. Where is a good place to start? Im thinking that because I was rough with the dist, it may be the PIP. I have not checked fuses or done any electrical testing yet but you guys have been under these hoods more lately than me so again, a hint on a starting point would help. Im getting ready to shove it into a river.....and I have one about 100 yards from my house, wouldnt be tough to do. If it werent for the mechanical kickdown, it would already have a carb on it.

Thanks in advance.

[Marz]

Ok, after fighting with the distributor, it wont start. I bought a new TFI, still wont start. So now I have an extra.

I dont want to just start throwing parts at it because thats not logical. Where is a good place to start? Im thinking that because I was rough with the dist, it may be the PIP. I have not checked fuses or done any electrical testing yet but you guys have been under these hoods more lately than me so again, a hint on a starting point would help. Im getting ready to shove it into a river.....and I have one about 100 yards from my house, wouldnt be tough to do. If it werent for the mechanical kickdown, it would already have a carb on it.

Thanks in advance.

Any SEFI dist from a mustang will work. BUT, you will have to change the metal thing that the PIP reads over to the CFI dist..

Wait. That car is still a non-roller HO. Can't use one from a Mustang since those are Roller HO's. I believe the V8 thunderbirds were non-roller Blocks and used the SEFI dist.

[cbncoupe]

Any SEFI dist from a mustang will work. BUT, you will have to change the metal thing that the PIP reads over to the CFI dist..

Wait. That car is still a non-roller HO. Can't use one from a Mustang since those are Roller HO's. I believe the V8 thunderbirds were non-roller Blocks and used the SEFI dist.

I can always swap the gear, thats the easy part, just need one that works.

I was walking up to my supervisors desk to get a good tester to use this weekend when I remembered I have a Super Star II tester in my toolbox. Havent used the thing or even owned a car it works on in quite a while. Im hoping KOEO test will tell me something. Im excited to get home and try it out.....now if I can remember what the codes mean....

[moelll]

WWW.oldfuelinjection.com will tell you

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[cbncoupe]

WWW.oldfuelinjection.com will tell you

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Absolutely priceless site. THANKS!

[cbncoupe]

OK, update time.

After a lengthy fight with the distributor, I got it fired up again. Still runs rough but it runs. I got the timing set and realized that it may be a tooth off.....the module is aiming near 4 o'clock.

I ran a KOER test and get codes for the EGR/EVP and 41 (lean/closed loop) pertaining to the O2 sensor not switching. I would assume a new O2 sensor will help as I feel the one in there is the original. Not sure what to do about the EVP. I read it controls the mixture to an extent. Still runs as though its missing a cylinder and I will be looking into that more this weekend. All wires are firing, checked them with the timing light. May have a bad plug but I will still do a compression test on all 8. I feel I need to remove the cat as well, Im sure its not helping.

Did some other things as well. Tilt Mustang column and painted a couple of D-slots satin black. Need a couple more tires for the other two. Theres a painter a few doors down from me and we'll be putting a few coats of satin black on everything but the windows and the lights. I got a pair of taillights in much better shape than mine so those will go on soon. Still need to do the rear shocks and front brakes. I have donor parts for all that so no dough spent there. Ok, more in the next few days.

[moelll]

I recognize those taillights...


As for your code 41, for CFI cars, its kind of bum code, the o2 sensors are not heated and if the car is idling, it will not switch cos the exhaust temperature is not hot enough. The way to check it is to have the car at around 1500 rpm and with a multimeter. You put the positive end on the wire and negative end a ground somewhere. It should read between 0-1 volt

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[cbncoupe]

I know many of you wont like it but Im converting this thing to a carb. I have an automatic 2 bbl carb that I understand will bolt to the existing intake. I also have a distributor and duraspark box. I read that the lift pump, in the tank, is enough to supply a carbed engine. Is this true?....or, should I plan to regulate and return using the existing dual pump setup?? I think I have those parts as well. I will not be putting a mechanical pump on it....dont want to tear into the front of the motor.

My reason for doing this is to stop spending money on electronics and chasing demons in this shaky-to-begin-with 28 year old system. Its the best/quickest solution for me at this point.

I found a site with some info on wiring for the duraspark but it only mentions that I need to rewire the pump. Any links to what I need to do or wire harness diagrams would be helpful.

Fire away!

[Matt J]

I'm no expert on the conversion process, but I can tell you from experience with my Mustang, that had sat for about 6 years before I bought it, that the engine definitely suffered a lot from "sit-itis" and when I ran it around for a while, it definitely helped. A tune up, and replacing all the filters on it, and run all the crap out of the fuel tank and lines, carb cleaner, that stuff got it going (rough) but I drove it that way for a little while and a lot of it got better. You most likely have a vacuum leak someplace, I'm sure you've noticed there are hoses EVERYWHERE, one of the biggest culprits for my car was the cruise module, which for the Mustang is hidden in the fender well. Also if you have the same EEC4 computer as I have, there is a definite learning process the computer goes through when you first hook the battery up to it. It takes a while for it to figure out. And a lot of the computer-controlled modules are vacuum powered, so I had to replace a lot of them as they were 30 years old and the rubber components in them had deteriorated. If you're swapping to carb and ditching all the rest of the stuff, I wouldn't bother trying to diagnose the problem as you're going to be taking a lot of it off anyway. Just don't throw any of it out until you're sure you don't need it!

[cbncoupe]

Well, Im going to give it one more shot before I tear into it. I know the dist is off a tooth, not my doing but my findings, and I need to replace the O2. Im going to start with the O2 just to see if I can get it out of there. As you all know, its in a tight spot. If that goes awry, or Im bleeding before its at least loose, Im done.

I spent plenty of time checking vacuum everywhere and I think I have it all buttoned up. I'll check some more though, there are a lot of lines going everywhere.

I think I may take the EGR off and clean that thing up too. Im sure its full of crap.