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  1. #1
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    Default Flywheel hitting Block Plate? UPDATE: 3/29/14 with Dyno Sheet!

    Hey guys, I had a set back with my new 347 engine installation. It's been in the car for 3 weeks now and there's been no issues at all until this past weekend when I went to New England Dragway. On my 2nd pass I was crossing the finish line and heard a loud rapping sound. Thinking that it developed a rod knock, I coasted as much as I could back to the pits and shut it off. It sat for the the next 7 hours and then when I fired it up to get it onto the trailer for the ride home, the noise was virtually non-existent. When we got home a few hours later it didn't make the noise at all. The next day I drained the oil and checked it for metal "glitter" to see if there were parts that were damaged and no glitter was found. I strained the oil anyway and then poured it back into the engine. I then took it out for a 20 minute ride and there was no noise at all.

    Throughout all of this, I kept thinking that it wasn't the motor that was suspect so I pulled the transmission out and started looking around. I found metal particles on the grease that I have on the throwout bearing so I took it out and cleaned it off. It operates as it should and there's no gouges on that. I then removed the starter and noticed that the block plate was bent into the flywheel and there were scrapes on the motor side of the flywheel. Fearing the worst, I pulled the bellhousing and clutch, and noticed that the block plate has been rubbing the aftermarket billet steel flywheel. It's been rubbing it to the point where there's metal particles actually stuck between the two. I also noticed that the block plate looks to be pretty beat up. My question is this: Have you guys ever seen this before? I'm getting conflicting reports from some who think the crank "walked" in the block, other's who think it's just the beat up block plate (it was pretty beat up before but I've never had a problem with it in the past 9 years of using it), and other's who think the aftermarket flywheel may need shimming because it may not have been machined within spec?

    I will say that the engine runs good, feels strong, doesn't smoke, doesn't skip, doesn't knock (at least at the moment), the oil pressure is excellent, and it runs at a steady 180 degrees. I've pulled the bolts out of the flywheel but I'm having a hard time trying to pull it off the back of the block. I'll keep at it until I can get it off to survey everything else.

    If anyone has any insight, please feel free to post up!

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Hissing Cobra; 03-29-2014 at 04:07 PM.
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  2. #2
    FEP Power Member gmatt's Avatar
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    Default

    Check the fore/aft movement(thrust) of the crank shaft? Probably not it considering the newness of your engine, but worth checking. Would there be clearance if the block plate wasn't bent?

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member FM2NOTCH's Avatar
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    FWIW, I've never seen a used T5 aluminum block plate that hasn't hit the flywheel at some point, heat makes them warp I guess, then when they cool they flatten out again
    *FOXTOBERFEST* 2015 http://www.foxmustangrestoration.com/events
    85 T Top coupe 5.0 2R red, E7's, rpm intake, 4180 carb, 7.4 1/8
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  4. #4
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies guys. I knew it was kind of beat up but it didn't look like it does right now when we installed it. It's warped like crazy. I can't really understand it 'cause the motor's only been as hot as 210 degrees while it was idling while we were tuning it. Once driven, it went right down to 180. I'll be buying a new one for sure but we'll check the fore/aft movement as well.
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  5. #5
    FEP Super Member FM2NOTCH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hissing Cobra View Post
    Thanks for the replies guys. I knew it was kind of beat up but it didn't look like it does right now when we installed it. It's warped like crazy. I can't really understand it 'cause the motor's only been as hot as 210 degrees while it was idling while we were tuning it. Once driven, it went right down to 180. I'll be buying a new one for sure but we'll check the fore/aft movement as well.
    put up a picture of the old one if you can
    *FOXTOBERFEST* 2015 http://www.foxmustangrestoration.com/events
    85 T Top coupe 5.0 2R red, E7's, rpm intake, 4180 carb, 7.4 1/8
    83 CC capri 5.0 5 speed,black mesh wheels
    76 cobra II 302 auto black/gold, big cam 3 inch dumps- sold to a good friend
    92 coupe 5.0 5 speed -red
    92 Lx hatch 5.0 5 speed -black, 66 coupe 5.0 4 spd (project)
    87 Vert 5.0 AOD red stock as a rock

    " Are you sure you know what you're talking about? It kinda sounds like you know what you're talking about"

  6. #6
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    I will after I can get it out. I tried to take a picture of it while laying underneath the car but the camera was too close and wouldn't take a picture.
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member FM2NOTCH's Avatar
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    I'm thinking your oil pan is pushing the indention of the block plate closer to the flywheel
    *FOXTOBERFEST* 2015 http://www.foxmustangrestoration.com/events
    85 T Top coupe 5.0 2R red, E7's, rpm intake, 4180 carb, 7.4 1/8
    83 CC capri 5.0 5 speed,black mesh wheels
    76 cobra II 302 auto black/gold, big cam 3 inch dumps- sold to a good friend
    92 coupe 5.0 5 speed -red
    92 Lx hatch 5.0 5 speed -black, 66 coupe 5.0 4 spd (project)
    87 Vert 5.0 AOD red stock as a rock

    " Are you sure you know what you're talking about? It kinda sounds like you know what you're talking about"

  8. #8
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    I didn't even think of that. That aftermarket pan is certainly different than my factory Ford pan that I had on the 302. I'll look more into that when I get home this afternoon.
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  9. #9
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    Well, my brother left a little while ago and this motor is toast. It didn't last too long. The oil pan also wasn't the culprit. Grrrrr...... The thrust bearing is wiped out and the crank "walked" in the block as evidenced by the 65,000 of an inch of movement on the crank fore/aft measurement. WTF! He said that when he built it there was 8 thousands of an inch or less, which was within spec (and he's right, as I've got all of the measurements written down on paper from when he built it - there was 4 thousands of an inch). My question is this, how does this happen? At any rate, this motor is coming out and the old 306 is going back in. I think I'll change the dual quads over to the Victor Jr. and single 650 carburetor from the 347 to see what will happen. I've always had a sneaking suspicion that the single four barrel will make more power and produce better quarter mile times than the dual quad setup. We'll see.

    I'm pretty bummed out right now about the new motor but there's nothing I can do about it. Maybe I'll sell it in pieces, maybe I'll fix it. Right now I don't even want to think about it.
    Last edited by Hissing Cobra; 08-26-2013 at 06:10 PM.
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  10. #10
    FEP Power Member gmatt's Avatar
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  11. #11
    FEP Senior Member 4EYED85's Avatar
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    What kind of transmission was used? If it was a T5, did you use the bolts to pull it into the block or did it slide all the way in?
    Last edited by 4EYED85; 08-24-2013 at 07:36 PM.

  12. #12
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Default

    That truly blows. Sorry to hear that. How difficult of a fix would it be?
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  13. #13
    FEP Super Member JTurbo's Avatar
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    Bummer Pete. At least you've got a backup motor.

    Hang in there. I know I've been in a similar circumstance more than once with my SVO.

    JT
    1979 Indy Pace Car Mustang 302 / 5spd
    1982 Mustang GT T-Top 302 / 4spd
    1986 SVO Mustang - 1C

  14. #14
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmatt View Post
    Thanks for the link. I've read it and understand it. I'm still saddened by what's happened though. This sucks.
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  15. #15
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4EYED85 View Post
    What kind of transmission was used? If it was a T5, did you use the bolts to pull it into the block or did it slide all the way in?
    It was my T-5 and it slid right into place without any issues. I didn't have to use the bolts to pull it into the bell housing.
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  16. #16
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianj View Post
    That truly blows. Sorry to hear that. How difficult of a fix would it be?
    Thank Brian. To fix it, the motor's got to come out and come apart. Then I'd need to get another 347 crankshaft (my brother's got one) and have it re-balanced to the weights of what my pistons were. We'd also have to install new bearings, and another gasket kit. It's something that I don't even want to think about right now. I'm heartbroken and don't want to spend the money. Since the month of May, I've done nothing but work on this car with hope of improving it and turn it into something that I want it to be and every step I've taken it seems like I've gone two steps backward.
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  17. #17
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    Thanks Joe. That's why I didn't want to sell the 306. While it's pretty dirty on the outside, it runs good. I'll clean/repaint it to make it look new and reinstall it, this time with the Victor Jr. and the Holley 650. I want to see if it's got the power to run low 12's or possibly high 11's.

    Quote Originally Posted by JTurbo View Post
    Bummer Pete. At least you've got a backup motor.

    Hang in there. I know I've been in a similar circumstance more than once with my SVO.

    JT
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  18. #18
    FEP Super Member mustangxtreme's Avatar
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    Pete, that is such a bummer. Throw that backup engine back in and enjoy the car. The 347 will still be there when your are ready.
    Dave

    If common sense was common wouldn't it just be sense?

    1983 Capri L T top 5.0 efi aod
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  19. #19
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustangxtreme View Post
    Pete, that is such a bummer. Throw that backup engine back in and enjoy the car. The 347 will still be there when your are ready.
    Thanks Dave. The 306 will be going back in. I'll just clean and re-paint it to look new. It still runs really good!
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  20. #20

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    If everything else is OK, you may be able to get a thrust bearing with the thicker thrust surface. I'm not sure if they make them to correct 65 thousandths but your machinist should be able to tell you. You still need to determine what caused the excessive thrust wear to begin with though.
    NCSU 08 Mathematics
    86 GT 5-speed, GT-40 heads, TFS1 cam, Performer EFI intake- 13.77@101.4
    66 mustang coupe-5.0 HO, T-5, 3.80 gears
    If everything seems under control, youre not going fast enough--Mario Andretti

  21. #21

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    Pete, I've had thrust faces welded and re-cut before. In fact, the crank in my '85 Vert needed
    it done when I pulled the engine apart. Wasn't expensive, and when I got the crank back, I
    hardly could tell where they had welded it.

    I expect it's a bit of a delicate subject, but did your brother make sure to square up the center
    mains before torquing 'em down?
    Last edited by JACook; 08-25-2013 at 11:56 PM.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
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    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  22. #22
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    Jeff,

    I'm not too sure. I didn't ask him that question. In fact, I don't know anything about this type of stuff 'cause I can't build an engine. I can pull an engine out, reinstall an engine, take one apart, etc... I just can't build 'em. I'm not mad at him 'cause I know he tries his best and he's real good at what he does. Sometimes things happen and for some reason, this summer everything seems to have happened to me. It is what it is. I'll be pulling the motor soon and I'll take it apart and let you guys know what's going on inside (block wrecked or anything else inside that's wrecked, etc....) Thanks for the reply though!
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  23. #23

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    Sucks to hear Pete. At least you've still got the 306 and I know you and Paul will eventually fix the 347 when time and finances allow. I was talking to Terry and Julie at Ford Fest the day your car broke and they were telling me they had to do the bottom end in the coupe over twice because it kept eating up crankshafts like your car did. Same thing, too much endplay. They were pretty sure it was the automatic trans or torque converter they had in the car, which is why it's now got a manual in it. But they never knew for sure why it was happening, but it hasn't happened since they swapped transmissions. You'll get it figured out. But in the meantime get the 306 back in there. We've still got some season left!
    86 Notch under construction

    2011 4Runner Trail edition
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  24. #24
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    Thanks Ken. My evil spirits are beginning to lift and my mind is clearing. I just want to take a couple of weeks off. While I can pull and reinstall the engine transmission on my own, it takes quite a few hours or work and that's something that I'm not up to the challenge of doing right now. I believe I'll get the 306 back in there within the next two weeks or so and then I'll be able to enjoy it a little bit before the season comes to a close. It's been the summer of highs and lows, that's for sure.
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  25. #25

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    Hey Pete very sorry to hear about the motor I dropped in over Pauly's he told me what was goin on keep ur head up you an Pauly will get it all fixed an back together when the time is right.other then that happening It was great hangin out with u Pauly brain Andy Ryan ken his wife. Next year will be better an more fun if you need anything call me sure ill see you soon bud.

    Sounds great like I hoped an went f***ing great on the high way

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