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  1. #1

    Default Fairmont Brake Upgrade Question

    Well after 10 years of collecting parts while my car sat- I finally found some time and completed my 5.0/t5 swap on my Fairmont 2-Door Sedan. I installed a mild 306 with E cam, FMS intake, Holley 650dp, FMS t5z, Holley red pump, electric fan, and did a 3G alternator upgrade. I will have to post some pics. Now that the engine is running, I am ready to tackle the brakes. As I mentioned, the car sat for almost 10 years so I think its best to do a complete brake job including replacing the brake lines especially since the brake fluid in the master cylinder had congealed a bit. I have decided since I am going to be doing a complete brake job- I might as well do an SN95 swap while I am at it especially since I have a set of Mach 1 Rims and tires from my mustang I traded in. I have read through the 5 Lug Conversion thread on this forum as well as many others and think I have the general idea of what is needed for this swap. I will be getting 94 spindles and brakes as well as SN95 ball joints. I will be swapping the rear for an 8.8 from a 87-93 mustang and get the axles to swap to 5 lug. I have not decided if I will stay with the drums in the back or swap to disc. Right now, I think I am leaning towards staying with drums.

    My main question is- which master cylinder do I go with? My Fairmont has manual brakes - can i swap to a larger master cylinder and not add a brake booster? Or is a brake booster necessary. All of the threads I have read discuss using a brake booster - so I am not sure if it is needed or if I can continue with the manual brakes. Is the 1 1/8 MC the way to go? Is there anything else that I will need to do that is particular to a Fairmont/Zephyr. Also, is there anywhere that sells pre-bent lines for a Fairmont? I have not been able to find one - just for the Mustang. What will I need to do for e-brakes since the Fairmont has the pedal operated e-brake instead of the hand operated one? Just for reference- my Fairmont was originally a I6 4 speed manual car with manual brakes all around and manual steering. Thanks for your help in advance!

  2. #2

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    Not sure I understand the desire to swap to a larger master cylinder. All else being equal, that
    would increase brake effort, which doesn't seem like a desirable thing on a manual brake car.

    The 1 1/8" master is only useful for cars that have installed the SVO/Mark VII rear disks, and
    the 73mm front calipers that go with them. Without the SVO/Mark VII rear disks, there is nothing
    to be gained at all with the 73mm front calipers or the big MC. People that suggest this is an
    upgrade simply have never done the math.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  3. #3

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    I have a t-coupe/93 cobra disc rear with 87+ mustang front brakes and 73mm front calipers, 93 cobra booster and master cylinder, a gutted pv with plug and an adjustable pv on the passeger side. I used the rear left and right e-brake cables from a t-coupe and cut them with cable cutters to mate them up with the front stock e-brake lines on the car. E-brake works great. And my LTD LX stop extremely well with very little effort from the pedal.

    Just be sure you adjust the push rod on the booster right. Maximum Motorsports has a good write up on how to do it. Works best if you have dial calipers.

    In regards to the 73mm/60mm calipers. With the set up i have i may go back the 60mm calipers up front. This is because the 93 cobra had them and they worked great.
    Last edited by Marz; 06-28-2013 at 08:49 AM.
    1985 Mustang GT Mild 331 4bbl 5 spd, 1985 SEFI LTD LX AOD.
    Cardomain: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/565542
    Mid Size LTD LX Facebook page! http://www.facebook.com/groups/233213650060739/

  4. #4

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    Thanks for the replies. I am a total newbie when it comes to the brake upgrades thats why i am asking. I was really just going off of what I've read online. What MC would you recommend me getting if i swap to the SN95 brakes with PBR 2 piston calipers? Will it change if i go discs all the way around?

    Just to clarify, I can stay with manual brakes when doing this swap correct? Or I need a booster?

    Thanks again for your help and patience.

  5. #5

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    There have been many discussions here sparked by the whole "73mm upgrade" myth. In one of
    these, I attempt to use math to explain what's really going on-
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?119568-brake-questions&p=1251768#post1251768

    Bottom line, you have to think of a brake system is exactly that. A system. If you're using SN95
    brakes all the way around, you would normally use an SN95 master cylinder as well, or at least one
    that is the same diameter. Your manual brakes kinda throw a curveball at this, because not only
    do manual brake master cylinders typically have a smaller bore diameter (to reduce pedal effort),
    they also will often have a different pedal ratio.

    You don't necessarily have to convert to power brakes, but you do need to select a master cylinder
    that strikes a balance between pedal effort and pedal travel. Doing the math helps here, if you are
    happy with your current setup. Hydraulics are all about surface areas. You basically want to maintain
    the same master cylinder-to-caliper bore ratios you have now. Keep in mind that ideally, this applies
    to rear caliper or wheel cylinder piston surface areas as well, but you do have the option of going
    with an adjustable proportioning valve.

    If you do decide to stick with the rear drums, I would suggest grabbing a set of 10" drums off a
    Fairmont wagon or mid-80s T-Bird/Cougar. The stock 9" Fox drums were none too large even with
    the 10" front discs, and with a front brake upgrade, you can definitely stand to gain a bit in the rear
    as well. The 10" drums work very well, and are an easy swap. My own '85 hatch has just basic 11"
    '87-'93 front discs and 10" rear drums, with Porterfield R4S linings on all 4 corners. Stock '85 master
    cylinder. The combination works very well.

    I suggest for cars with a lighter rear end than a T-Top hatch, the 3/4" T-Bird/Cougar wheel cylinders
    are probably a better match than the Fairmont wagon 13/16" cylinders.
    Last edited by JACook; 06-29-2013 at 10:48 AM.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  6. #6

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    Not to hijack the thread but I have a set of Mark VII spindles, ball joint adapters and rotors. Will the smaller Fox calipers work with these?
    81 Fairmont wagon,528 on E-85,just a brutal street car

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike R View Post
    Not to hijack the thread but I have a set of Mark VII spindles, ball joint adapters and rotors. Will the smaller Fox calipers work with these?
    The 60mm calipers are externally the same size as the 73mm calipers, and are interchangeable, whether
    on Mustang spindles or Mark VII/SVO spindles. The benefit to running the Mark VII/SVO spindles is they
    have a bit more favorable Ackermann geometry.

    Anyone who's swapped to the '87-'93 front spindles has probably noticed the car picked up a lot more front
    wheel slip in tight parking lot maneuvers, especially on the short-wheelbase Mustang/Capri chassis. The
    Mark VII/SVO spindles put the Ackermann back in more or less where it was, or perhaps a bit better.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  8. #8

    Default

    JACook is right. If you're sticking with rear drums, you'll want the 10" drums out back. And if you're using SN95 fronts, I'm guessing you're going 5 lug. So then, you'll want to grab the drums from an Aerostar. They are 10" and are 5 lug. Grab the backing plates, hardware, and drums and everything bolts right on.
    While you're pulling the brakes, grab the passenger side axle as well. It'll fit the fox width rear for a cheap 5 lug swap.
    Personnely, I'd go with a power booster, but that's just me. My Fairmont is currently manual, but I'm going power when I do my SN95 brakes.
    80 Fairmont Futura 2.3 4spd (soon to be 2.3T 5spd)
    86 Turbo Coupe 2.3T 5spd
    89 Mustang 2.3T 5spd (WRL Racer)


    www.RaceWRL.com

  9. #9

    Default

    Be aware that the 10" Aerostar rear drums are substantially wider than the Fairmont or
    Thunderbird/Cougar drums. 2.5" vs 1.75". Aerostar also uses large 15/16" wheel cylinders
    which will further skew brake bias too far rearward for a boxtop. The 3/4" Thunderbird/
    Cougar cylinders would probably be a better fit, but I expect you'll still need an adjustable
    proportioning valve.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  10. #10
    FEP Member
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    I installed a 87-88 Turbocoupe rear axle (bolted right in, amazing for a Ford), and it works great. Note I had to extend the hard brake line from the passanger side over towards the center-driver's side.Early Foxbody cars don't require a different master cyl when adding rear discs, per Mustangs Unlimited, and they are right!
    Terry

    78 Fairmont Sedan V8 - Factory black interior, factory A/C, No longer a SHO project, t/c 8.8 diff w/ 3.73LS
    85 LTD LX - Black, 5.0L CFI, crank windows
    93 Mustang LX 5.0L notch - original owner, 20k original miles
    17 F250 - My RV Trailer, projects, and car hauler vehicle

  11. #11

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    I did the 99+ brake swap on my wagon. Basically use 94/95 spindles with the pbr dual piston calipers on the front and then use the rear brakes and axles from 94-0?. For the master I used a 94-98 unit since it is slightly larger than the 99+ MC and gives a firmer pedal with less travel. I like it with the 82 factory booster; but for a factory feel use matching year parts and for manual brakes I would run slightly smaller master for a longer softer pedal.

    Over all its pretty nice, when I first put it together the fronts still had air in them and it stopped pretty well. I got the air out and now you have to watch what your doing to not send people forward in their seats. I have cheap rock auto pads and rotors right now too so I would assume that with a better pad it would only improve.

    Blake

  12. #12

    Default

    I wanted to update this thread. I ordered the parts for my 5 lug conversion from MPS auto salvage in Georgia and had everything pallet shipped to me. I decided to go with a 94 8.8 rear with 3.73 gears. I swapped the rear and installed the front control arms, spindles, and rotors. I still need to run all new brake lines, install master cylinder and booster, and run new parking brake cables. Overall, I am happy with the way it turned out. I was able to clean, POR 15 and paint the frame rails and undercarriage while the rear was out. I am running for Motorsport B springs with poly isolators and the ride height seems perfect. I have fender clearance but the tires fill up the wheel wells nice. Tires size is 245 45/17. Below are some pics of my progress:
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  13. #13
    FEP Senior Member roadkill's Avatar
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    ^^^^
    Diggin' those Mach I wheels...
    1985 Mercury Marquis LTS... "The Unicorn"
    1978 Fairmont... 306 and a C4.

  14. #14

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    .

    Same here!
    1985 Mustang GT Mild 331 4bbl 5 spd, 1985 SEFI LTD LX AOD.
    Cardomain: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/565542
    Mid Size LTD LX Facebook page! http://www.facebook.com/groups/233213650060739/

  15. #15

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    Thanks! I am happy I went with them. I think they fit the look very well.

  16. #16

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    old thread revive ive searched all over and cant get a honest answer or found much info ..... my 79 had power brake in my build i swap to 87-93 spindles brakes up front and explorer disc in rear . Do i need change my master cylinder ? If so what do i use ? anything else ill need to change ?

  17. #17
    FEP Senior Member
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    I need some help .
    I have a 78 F mont with the aerostar rear 5 lug conversion.
    On the ft I have the 94 spindles, with the 99 pbr calipers. I have the manual 78 brake M/C . I have a pretty solid pedal but the car seems to only have rear brakes.
    I will be checking for piston movement tomorrow. I would like to stay with manual brakes.
    Any suggestions will be appreciated. Can this system work?
    Will Rogers" common sense is not as common as you think"

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr wood View Post
    old thread revive ive searched all over and cant get a honest answer or found much info ..... my 79 had power brake in my build i swap to 87-93 spindles brakes up front and explorer disc in rear . Do i need change my master cylinder ? If so what do i use ? anything else ill need to change ?
    Rear disc swap will require a different master cylinder, because of the residual pressure valve used with
    the drums. And since you're combining front and rear brakes from different applications, you will likely
    need to install an adjustable proportioning valve. Unlike rear drums, it's not so easy to change rear
    caliper piston size to correct a mismatch.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by 48fordnut View Post
    I need some help .
    I have a 78 F mont with the aerostar rear 5 lug conversion.
    On the ft I have the 94 spindles, with the 99 pbr calipers. I have the manual 78 brake M/C . I have a pretty solid pedal but the car seems to only have rear brakes.
    I will be checking for piston movement tomorrow. I would like to stay with manual brakes.
    Any suggestions will be appreciated. Can this system work?
    Those Aerostar drums are pretty huge for the light tail of a Mustang. I've got the smaller 10x1.75 Fairmont drums
    with 13/16" wheel cylinders in my '85 Hatch , and I wouldn't want anything larger. But those aren't available in 5-lug.

    I think you've got a mismatch here that's going to require gutting your stock proportioning valve, and installing an
    adjustable one in the rear brake circuit. But you may be able to get closer with a wheel cylinder swap first. When
    you installed the Aerostar drums, did you use the wheel cylinders they came with? Those are also pretty huge, at
    7/8" diameter. And I believe you would have needed metric adapters to connect your brake lines to 'em.

    The Aerostar 10" rear brakes are similar to the ones used on Fairmonts and T-Birds, only wider. Unfortunately, I
    don't know of a 3/4" wheel cylinder that would fit those brakes, and also has the 7/16-24 or metric fitting. '86
    Aerostar 13/16" wheel cylinders have 7/16-24 fittings but I don't know whether those would make enough of a
    difference. Otherwise, mid-'80s T-Bird and Cougar had 10" brakes with 3/4" cylinders, but those take 3/8-24 fittings.
    Last edited by JACook; 11-28-2015 at 05:52 PM.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  20. #20

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    Any idea on what master cylinder to use ? i figured both front and rear being 11's it wouldnt change things much

  21. #21

    Default

    As long as you're using the 60mm front calipers (and you should be), the stock master works fine.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  22. #22

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    So glad to see this up. I'm wondering what way to go on my 81 Boxtop. I have a 88 TC rear but what fronts work with this? Or would I be better off getting sn95 stuff all the way around?

  23. #23
    FEP Super Member Travis T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whyidontknow View Post
    So glad to see this up. I'm wondering what way to go on my 81 Boxtop. I have a 88 TC rear but what fronts work with this? Or would I be better off getting sn95 stuff all the way around?
    87-93 V8 Mustang front brakes would be a good match, they are the same brakes that 87-88 TCs used.
    1984 Mustang GT owned since 1991 (first car). Mercury Mountaineer GT-40P engine, some suspension mods, currently undergoing a five lug SN95 brake upgrade and more suspension mods. Some minor body and interior mods have been done as well.

    2004 GT convertible, 2001 Taurus LX, 1994 F150, 1950 F-1 Ford Pickup

  24. #24

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    Great news. Do I need to consider a new master?

  25. #25
    FEP Super Member Travis T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whyidontknow View Post
    Great news. Do I need to consider a new master?
    If you swap to discs in the rear, yes you would. Probably a 93 Mustang Cobra would be the piece to use for that.
    1984 Mustang GT owned since 1991 (first car). Mercury Mountaineer GT-40P engine, some suspension mods, currently undergoing a five lug SN95 brake upgrade and more suspension mods. Some minor body and interior mods have been done as well.

    2004 GT convertible, 2001 Taurus LX, 1994 F150, 1950 F-1 Ford Pickup

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