oil pump shaft install

[ryanws6]

I've put together my long block, cam, t-chain, oil pump, t-cover, oil pan, heads, lifters, pushrods, rockers. Now I thought/think I can slide the rod from the top. I have a melling HV oil pump with the shaft that has a hat on it.

I think your going to tell me I have to pull the pan off and pump. I hope not.

Rather figure this now than when its in the car!

[Farmer83]

The only way to get the shaft in now is to remove the retainer clip & try to install it thru the distributor hole. Be careful or you will have to fish it out of the pan with a telescoping magnet. It can be done but will require some patience.The non bonus is when the dizzy comes out for whatever reason the shaft will probably come with.
Good luck!

[69SCJ]

You are correct. The shaft goes first, then pump, then pan.

That ring keeps the shaft from being picked up by the dizzy when pulled in the future. I have heard of people without the ring dropping the shaft into the pan when pulling the dizzy. That would suck!

[droopie85gt]

What's the big deal with pulling the pan since it's still out? Pull the pan, pull the pump, put the shaft in, clean everything, reassemble. You can drop the shaft in, but as folks have said, if you take the distributor out, the shaft will probably come up out of the oil pump then fall into the pan. If you can't fish it out with a magnet, you will be looking at dropping the pan or pulling the engine.

[n2omaverick]

without the clip it will come out with the dizzy every time and possibly drop in the pan. I would permatex the shaft into the dizzy so in goes in and comes out every time. Or remove the pan and do it the correct way.
The dizzy in mine currently has the pump shaft "glued" in because of mine dropping into the pan. And fyi if if drops in the pan.........leave it there!!!!!!!!

[MAD MIKE]

In my glory days of backyard hot rodding this was one of my more memorial blunders. Pulled the distributor out for some dumbass reason, only to have the shaft stuck to it. Even dropped it in the pan a couple of times before herping the derp and using a magnet inserted into a socket to keep the thing attached long enough for installation.

[ryanws6]

Yeah guess I"ll pull the pan off. Does that hat go on towards the bottom end or to the dist?

[93ksstang]

The distributor side. I hope you spent the money and ordered an arp oil pump shaft. I have twisted the stock shaft with a stock motor they will twiste and break.

[4idfox]

The distributor side. I hope you spent the money and ordered an arp oil pump shaft. I have twisted the stock shaft with a stock motor they will twiste and break.

X2
An ARP drive shaft is very important with that HV pump.

[Go0fY]

Been there done that, fished out from the front drain plug hole. LOL now but sucked when I droped into the pan. I got really lucky.

[JACook]

The distributor side. I hope you spent the money and ordered an arp oil pump shaft. I have twisted the stock shaft with a stock motor they will twiste and break.

The shafts twist and break when debris gets in the pump, not because they're too weak
to do the job of driving the oil pump. I have yet to see a pretzeled pump shaft that I didn't
also find a bit of gasket material or nylon cam sprocket debris wedged in the pump rotors.

If you're using a standard volume/standard pressure pump (and you should be) the stock
shaft is more than up to the task. Just don't get careless with the gasket scraper.

[ryanws6]

I'll have to look at it carefully. I don't remember exactly how it was. This pump and shaft were in the old 306 setup. So I don't see an issue.

I have one of those 6qt oil pans.

[93ksstang]

The shafts twist and break when debris gets in the pump, not because they're too weak
to do the job of driving the oil pump. I have yet to see a pretzeled pump shaft that I didn't
also find a bit of gasket material or nylon cam sprocket debris wedged in the pump rotors.

If you're using a standard volume/standard pressure pump (and you should be) the stock
shaft is more than up to the task. Just don't get careless with the gasket scraper.

If you read the op it is a hv pump that's on the car. I have also snapped 2 of them on stock motors I pulled the oil pump and inspected and everything was clean. Also my 86 I pulled apart lately had a twisted shaft. Seems to be a normal thing to pull a stocker out that's twisted

[JACook]

Yes, about that HV pump. Notice my "and you should be" comment WRT standard-volume pumps.

Most of the time, guys use HV pumps simply because everyone else does it, or it's "for insurance".
Most of the time, those guys are wrong, and that HV pump is actually counterproductive.

Unless the bottom end is built really loose (and it shouldn't be), the only thing that HV pump is
gonna do for you is pack oil in the top of the engine, sap horsepower, and wear the cam and
distributor gears. Loose bearings, HV pumps, and 20W50 oil are not the way good engine builders
work these days. It's been probably 20 years since I built an engine that actually needed a HV
oil pump.

An engine only needs ~10PSI of oil pressure per 1000 RPM, and even that is an outdated rule of
thumb. With the oils we have today, most engines can do with significantly less. Beyond that
point, more is just waste.

I don't know the specifics of the OP's build, but I'm betting he'd be way better off with a SV pump.

Now about those shafts. I'm not questioning what you've been seeing, but I've been building small
and big block Fords since the early '70s, and twisted shafts have been far less common in my world.
Perhaps the warmer climate has something to do with it, since we rarely ask our engines to pump
20W50 (or even 10W40) at below-freezing temps. But I will say this- If these shafts really needed
to be beefier on a stock oiling system, Ford would have made them beefier, what with warranty
costs and all. That fragile-looking pump shaft was good enough for the likes of a HiPo 289, so why
would a hydraulic roller cammed 5.0 need anything more?

I stand by my assertion that trash in the oil is the real culprit, whether or not you actually found
any in the pump. Most mechanics are just way too careless with what they allow to fall down in
the engine, not to mention the bits of valve guide seal and nylon cam sprocket debris that happen
on their own. (Thankfully those sprockets are mostly a thing of the past.)

I'm not completely against the beefier shafts, but you have to think about where you're moving
the problem to. If the distributor was built with a thin-wall roll pin holding the gear to the shaft,
that will likely shear if the pump gets locked up. That's a good thing. But if the person that put
that gear on decided to "upgrade" that wimpy roll pin, you're gonna break some gear teeth. Don't
ask me how I know this...

My point to all this is, you have to understand why these things happen, and think about the
unintended consequences, rather than just following the herd.

[ryanws6]

Thanks and I agree with all said. I simply used what was there. I took it all apart, cleaned and reoiled the gears, everything was nice and shaft was good too. Engine had great oil psi before rebuild. I removed the pan and put the shaft in.

[TWR2003]

I simply used what was there.

Never a good excuse for not using the right parts. Unless your engine is built with racing engine bearing clearances that HV pump is a BIG mistake.

[Kerry]

Yes, about that HV pump. Notice my "and you should be" comment WRT standard-volume pumps.

Most of the time, guys use HV pumps simply because everyone else does it, or it's "for insurance".
Most of the time, those guys are wrong, and that HV pump is actually counterproductive.

Unless the bottom end is built really loose (and it shouldn't be), the only thing that HV pump is
gonna do for you is pack oil in the top of the engine, sap horsepower, and wear the cam and
distributor gears. Loose bearings, HV pumps, and 20W50 oil are not the way good engine builders
work these days. It's been probably 20 years since I built an engine that actually needed a HV
oil pump.

An engine only needs ~10PSI of oil pressure per 1000 RPM, and even that is an outdated rule of
thumb. With the oils we have today, most engines can do with significantly less. Beyond that
point, more is just waste.

I don't know the specifics of the OP's build, but I'm betting he'd be way better off with a SV pump.

Now about those shafts. I'm not questioning what you've been seeing, but I've been building small
and big block Fords since the early '70s, and twisted shafts have been far less common in my world.
Perhaps the warmer climate has something to do with it, since we rarely ask our engines to pump
20W50 (or even 10W40) at below-freezing temps. But I will say this- If these shafts really needed
to be beefier on a stock oiling system, Ford would have made them beefier, what with warranty
costs and all. That fragile-looking pump shaft was good enough for the likes of a HiPo 289, so why
would a hydraulic roller cammed 5.0 need anything more?

I stand by my assertion that trash in the oil is the real culprit, whether or not you actually found
any in the pump. Most mechanics are just way too careless with what they allow to fall down in
the engine, not to mention the bits of valve guide seal and nylon cam sprocket debris that happen
on their own. (Thankfully those sprockets are mostly a thing of the past.)

I'm not completely against the beefier shafts, but you have to think about where you're moving
the problem to. If the distributor was built with a thin-wall roll pin holding the gear to the shaft,
that will likely shear if the pump gets locked up. That's a good thing. But if the person that put
that gear on decided to "upgrade" that wimpy roll pin, you're gonna break some gear teeth. Don't
ask me how I know this...

My point to all this is, you have to understand why these things happen, and think about the
unintended consequences, rather than just following the herd.

Alot of very good and accurate points made here. There are so many hv oil pumps used that have absolutely no need in the applications they are being used.

[ryanws6]

Really...didn't think this oil pump would be a "bad idea" it was in the car and was just fine, psi was great at all rpms. Damn near replaced EVERYTHING else.