Thoughts on Coilovers?

[ZephyrEFI]

I've been fighting with my suspension since I took the original Zephyr springs out. I'm very dis-satisfied with how this car rides. It's really bouncy and harsh. I've tried new struts in front, no help. I've swapped in and out so many different coil springs, I can't even remember them all. Mostly used stock from various Mustang applications. I have new stock replacement '87-93 GT springs on the front and new Fairmont Wagon springs on the back. Gabriel, I think. Whatever Auto Zone has. The car sits very high. Initially, I thought this was good because I was getting rubbing with my '01 GT wheels. I kept thinking it was the front, but now i think it could have all been the back. I rolled the rear fenders, so if i'm right, this SHOULD be solved. I'm ready now to think about lowering the car, and I just know i DO NOT want to put those GT springs back into the front. They are SO tall, you have to compress them SO far to get them in, you have a day long battle on your hands just to get the spring compressor back out once the springs are in, which is no small task itself.

I've stiffened things up with a tubular K-member and strut tower brace, and that seemed to help some. And I plan on installing Maximum Motorsports full-length subframe connectors this year. Do you think that will solve my issue? The difference the K-member made has me hopeful, but I'm about ready to wave the white flag and plunk down some major cash on coilovers and just be done with it. I'm looking at QA1 front and rear. Any thoughts? I was thinking of buying new lowering springs, but what if they aren't right for my car, it being a Zephyr instead of a Mustang?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[GT40Capri]

Well, coil-overs generally ride better because they don't have to be as strong due to the increased motion ratio. There is a minor issue of cost however...

Still, I don't see why you can't come up with an acceptable ride with factory type springs. I think the first thing is to determine exactly what you want from the car, find out its true axle weights and choose a spring/shock combination based on that. Don't forget that the shocks/struts have to complement the springs used or you get all kinds of ride concerns

[UFoMoCo]

Sounds like you have a backspacing issue. Coil-overs will only limit the amount of backspacing you'll be able to run up front. As far as your k-member.. my experiences with them is that usually they are wider than stock k-members.

[Scott Peters]

Zephyrefi,
I am also going C/O.
Do your self a favor,
Contact the Tech dept over at Maximum Motorsports.
They can set you strait on what you will need.
Maybe you will get "Jack".

Scott

[85GT-79FJ40]

If you're running 17" wheels (which are heavier and put more leverage on the suspension) with shocks not designed to damp the extra load you're going to have a harsh ride. It may not be your springs that are your issue but instead the shocks. A set of Bilsteins or Koni's may be the fix.

[Scott Peters]

++++++ what 85GT said...your choices are Koni, Bilstein and Tokico

[ZephyrEFI]

I do have a back spacing issue, yes. The wheels are 17x8 Bullitt style. My front struts are '01 GT, so i guess they are matched to the wheels, although not the springs. My front springs are '87-93 GT. The new struts I tried that did not help the ride were '87-93 GT also, but then now I see that they were not matched to the weight of the wheels.

My front spindles are from an '01 as well. I do plan to swap in '94-5 spindles, just to gain whatever I can there.

My rear is from a Lincoln Mark VII. So, also wider than stock. The previous owner of the car had wheels on it when I bought it with tires so fat, I've never known this car not to rub in the back. And that was with the stock 4-lug 6.5 rear.

I was thinking about going with '05 and up wheels, just to pull the wheels in that much further. I don't know.

Where can I get my car weighed? It would be good to do that no matter what route I take, it sounds like.

[Mr Joshua]

The issue you seem to have is not just a spring issue or a shock issue but a combination of things culminating in your car bounce.
You must match your springs, shocks, struts to your car.
Traditional mustang selection might not work 100% correct for your zephyr. Corner weights play a role in determining which shocks/struts/springs you should be selecting for your ride, as well as overall weight and weight distribution. I'd think that your wheel selection would also play a role, so sorting that out would be in your best interest for overall function of the car.
General weight of the car can be taken at your local sand & gravel company, they always have scales, and might be willing to do it for nothing purely for the entertainment value. Scale guys get pretty bored weighing run of the mill dump trucks and pickups, etc.. The other alternative is to find someone local with a set of 4 corner scales and pay them a small fee, in cash or beer, etc. That will get you a real good idea of how you should proceed in sorting out your car.
Good luck.

[4idfox]

I think part of your problem is that the 01 gt struts are longer than a fox strut. Ride should be better if you get a fox length strut.

[85GT-79FJ40]

Bouncy and harsh means your shocks aren't worth beans with your current setup. A shock's primary function is to damp the motion of the spring. When it can't do this you get a bouncy ride, and when the shock is constantly smashing off it's bump stop (even worse with a shock that's too long) you get a very harsh ride as well. Good shocks that can handle bigger wheels and tires and stiffer springs aren't cheap but they are worth it. Going to a coil over using a cheap shock will likely result in a very similar overall ride. But of course you'll have adjustable ride height which is nice.

[ZephyrEFI]

Yeah, I really think these springs I have on the front are too tall and too stiff to start with. I haven't been hitting bump stops a lot, so that something, i guess.

One thought that I had was that springs intended for SN95 mustangs might be softer, as they are meant to work with a stiffer chassis than Foxes. I could be way off about that though.

It's a bit overwhelming that I may be looking at swapping out several different things to get a good result here. Say for example, I get some good springs and shocks that lower the car a bit, and then I get rubbing with my current wheels. Then I'd be looking at parking the car until I can get different wheels. One thing I'm definitely willing to consider is actually having the space I have in the wheel wells measured and getting custom sized wheels to fit. I'm not set on 17x8s by any means. BUT, then I may be looking at needing different suspension again because I've changed my unsprung weight again!

[DrewM]

You keep talking about springs, but the problems you are talking about have more to do with the shocks/struts. A bouncy ride happens because your shocks/struts aren't doing the right job for you, you can swap in any and every kind of spring you want but you're going to have the same problem on all of them. How much bigger/heavier is your car than a Mustang (if at all - I'm not familiar with the Zephyr), you may find that none of the Mustang shocks/struts are going to work for you without being re-valved.

[ZephyrEFI]

Do you think adjustable shocks could get me what I need?

[Mustang-junky]

It's a bit overwhelming that I may be looking at swapping out several different things to get a good result here. Say for example, I get some good springs and shocks that lower the car a bit, and then I get rubbing with my current wheels. Then I'd be looking at parking the car until I can get different wheels. One thing I'm definitely willing to consider is actually having the space I have in the wheel wells measured and getting custom sized wheels to fit. I'm not set on 17x8s by any means. BUT, then I may be looking at needing different suspension again because I've changed my unsprung weight again!

You could do the caliper bracket cut and flip, then use stock fox length axles. That should get rid of your rubbing issues.

I did it with the MarkVII rear in my '79, and I was using stock '99-'01 Cobra wheels. I actually had to space the wheels out 1/2" to make them look not so sucked into the wheel well.

Jess

[85GT-79FJ40]

Do you think adjustable shocks could get me what I need?

I think that would depend a lot on what you have now and what you are thinking of. Koni adjustables have quite a good range of adjustment but some others don't. If you're trying to run big wheels with regular parts-store gabriels, kyb's, monroe's etc. you're not going to have the control you need to damp the suspension. You have to remember most shocks are made to replace stock shocks on a stock car. Start swapping springs, engines, adding larger wheels and tires and things start to get interesting. Also keep in mind most performance shocks ride somewhat firm anyhow. But some of them can be custom-valved (bilstein does this out of their California facility) to work in specific applications. But they aren't cheap.

[ZephyrEFI]

You could do the caliper bracket cut and flip, then use stock fox length axles. That should get rid of your rubbing issues.

I did it with the MarkVII rear in my '79, and I was using stock '99-'01 Cobra wheels. I actually had to space the wheels out 1/2" to make them look not so sucked into the wheel well.

Jess

Haha, that's cool. I'd prefer not to go that route though because I want to run a parking brake. My understanding is, you can't do that with the bracket flip.

So, It's sounding to me like I can either spend a lot of money on really good, possibly custom-valved shocks, or I can spend a little bit more and and go with coilovers. What I mean by that is purpose-made coilover shocks, not a conversion kit. QA1's has 9 adjustment settings, plus several springs to choose from. Better start working on the wife now...

[DrewM]

So, It's sounding to me like I can either spend a lot of money on really good, possibly custom-valved shocks, or I can spend a little bit more and and go with coilovers. What I mean by that is purpose-made coilover shocks, not a conversion kit. QA1's has 9 adjustment settings, plus several springs to choose from. Better start working on the wife now...

QA1's are ok enough, but not many people are going to put them in the same league as Koni's or Bilsteins for non-drag using use, just because it has 9302232872 adjustment settings doesn't mean any of them are any good.

Call up MM and talk to them, they should be able to help you get a setup you can live with.

[Mustang-junky]

Haha, that's cool. I'd prefer not to go that route though because I want to run a parking brake. My understanding is, you can't do that with the bracket flip.

You are incorrect. My parking brake works just fine.

Jess

[AT6svo]

I run MM C/Os on my 84 LTD wagon with Bilstien Sports front & back. 350 springs up front/275 rear. 17x9 03 Cobra wheels, 255 front /275 rear, stock fox track width.

I don't think MM offers them for C/O's but it sounds like you'd really prefer a progressive (Vs specific) rate spring, which would give more compliant ride. I have Koni D/As, single adj, Bilstein, Tokicos, and Monroe GPs on my various cars. I am most impressed with the Bilsteins.

Ymmv.

[ZephyrEFI]

You are incorrect. My parking brake works just fine.

Jess

Oh, okay, cool. Do you know of a good write-up i could look at on that?

Thanks for the input everyone! If anyone has more to offer, I'd love to hear it.

[85GT-79FJ40]

You really need to determine what you want the car to be able to do when you're done. Like has been mentioned I don't know of anyone using QA1 stuff for much more than drag racing. But if that's what you want they would probably work out fine. I've always questioned the extra stress coil overs put on the shock towers too. The car was not desinged for the shock towers to support that kind of load. But lots of people do it so it must work. Subframe connectors do make a huge improvement. And I noticed a big improvement with a 4 point K-member brace on my old car too. If you're just building a nice street car theres no reason why a conventional spring/shock setup wouldn't give a decent ride. You just need to use quality parts. If you want to open-track it and keep up with modern cars open your wallet wide.

[Mustang-junky]

Oh, okay, cool. Do you know of a good write-up i could look at on that?

Thanks for the input everyone! If anyone has more to offer, I'd love to hear it.

It has been while since I did it. A google search will tell you what you need. In a nutshell, the caliper brackets get swapped left to right, one corner is cut off so that the bracket can slip over the axle and secure tot the backside of the axle flange. The bracket will not only be bolted on with three bolts instead of four, not an issue though. The only problem with the e-brake is getting the correct cables. I used SVO cables and had to modify them to work, but they do work good.

So, it is not a totally bolt on and go thing, just a little extra effort.


Jess

[ZephyrEFI]

It has been while since I did it. A google search will tell you what you need. In a nutshell, the caliper brackets get swapped left to right, one corner is cut off so that the bracket can slip over the axle and secure tot the backside of the axle flange. The bracket will not only be bolted on with three bolts instead of four, not an issue though. The only problem with the e-brake is getting the correct cables. I used SVO cables and had to modify them to work, but they do work good.

So, it is not a totally bolt on and go thing, just a little extra effort.


Jess

Thanks!

The car is a cruiser. The reason I question suspension kits with conventional springs and shocks is it seems they are designed to improve handling first and foremost. I'd like decent handling sure, but I want a good ride. Ride first, handling second. Tight, but will still absorb the bumps somewhat, like my Focus or my '02 GT. Not like a '70s Lincoln or something (if I wanted that, i'd put original suspension on it). I've driven plenty of cars with low suspensions designed to handle well, and they did not ride as well as what I'm looking for. Someone said up above that it's easier for coilovers to ride well because you remove some of the friction in the suspension.

I will definitely be getting my car weighed and making some phone calls though. The conventional setups are considerably cheaper than coilovers.