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  1. #1
    FEP Power Member Saturn V's Avatar
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    Default 84-85 dealer replacement carb 80163

    So my car has a carb that does not appear to be factory, but does appear to have all factory accessories (choke, dashpot) and connections. It is a Holley and the only identifiable model number is LIST-80163 3501. See photos.

    I sent a note to Holley to find out more about the carb and where I can get documentation for it. Here is the reply:

    "That is a 4180 model ford service replacement carb it is what the dealers used to replace the factory 4180 if they needed to be changed. Manuals on these were in the factory service manuals for 84-85 ford passenger cars 302 HO motors.
    Thanks.
    Travis
    "

    Does anyone else out there have one of these carbs? Mine runs really well, fires right up when warm, but a little harder when cold. Occasionally it stumbles a little on acceleration ... maybe that's normal, or may needs a little tuning? I haven't owned a carb'd car in over 15 years, so I don't really rememeber much about them. Will be learning more now.

    I'm in the process of contacting the seller and original owner to find out if they might have the original carb, but this probably won't lead anywhere. The seller did say that he had to get the carb rebuilt to get it running after purchasing from the original owner. Anyway, I'm going to try to see if I can possibly get the original carb. I did receive an E4ZE carb that I bought off of ebay and I believe that it is correct for the car, so I'll keep that on the shelf for now.
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  2. #2
    FEP Member 8ballEinstein's Avatar
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    Default

    I've got one of these "replacement" carbs. Holley cranked these out to be just like the original carb used in the Mustang with all the same components. It is actually an improvement because you have easy access to the idle mixure screws. Everything else is the same as original.

    Also, get rid of that stumble on acceleration. Carbed cars should give instant throttle response when tuned right.

    Edit to add: Holley 4180 replacement carbs are now difficult to find. If you're fed up with yours, let me know and I'll gladly take it off your hands.
    Last edited by 8ballEinstein; 05-27-2011 at 03:26 PM.

  3. #3
    FEP Power Member Saturn V's Avatar
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    Thanks for the response. The stumble is only occasional and I've not really noted when it happens. I haven't driven the car much since I brought the car home a couple of weeks ago and I'll start paying more attention to when the carb acts up.

    Ahhh ... nice tip about the idle screws ... good to know. I've also seen a reference that this carb is 600 cfm versus the factory 570 cfm ... if true, maybe it has a little better performance potential??

    I had an idea that these replacement carbs might be rare, since I've never seen another one and couldn't find much on the web about them. Let's hang onto these!

    Quote Originally Posted by 8ballEinstein View Post
    I've got one of these "replacement" carbs. Holley cranked these out to be just like the original carb used in the Mustang with all the same components. It is actually an improvement because you have easy access to the idle mixure screws. Everything else is the same as original.

    Also, get rid of that stumble on acceleration. Carbed cars should give instant throttle response when tuned right.

    Edit to add: Holley 4180 replacement carbs are now difficult to find. If you're fed up with yours, let me know and I'll gladly take it off your hands.
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  4. #4
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    Erik, I would like to look at the primary venturies to compare them to the original 4180c carbs...maybe since you now have one you can do that. They should be larger than the secondaries. Look at the end plugs on the bowls as compared to the original 4180c...those have been repaired on the outside and the better way is to stop leaks from the inside. The stumble you speak about may be one of two things...improper accelorator pump linkage adjustment or a size 28 squirter instead of a size 31.
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  5. #5

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    If its only rarely + occasional go with it be happy.. the alternative is probably more work and hassle then its worth. just make sure your fuel source is clean and your heat shield is in place, warm up choke and heat risers are working and all should be good under the hood... any replacement would be way way more work then its worth...
    1985 Mustang GT.. Stock.. Should I keep it that way.. we'll see.

  6. #6
    FEP Power Member Saturn V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwguardian View Post
    Erik, I would like to look at the primary venturies to compare them to the original 4180c carbs...maybe since you now have one you can do that. They should be larger than the secondaries. Look at the end plugs on the bowls as compared to the original 4180c...those have been repaired on the outside and the better way is to stop leaks from the inside. The stumble you speak about may be one of two things...improper accelorator pump linkage adjustment or a size 28 squirter instead of a size 31.
    Thanks, Steve. When I'm back home we can look at the accelerator pump/linkage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason2o View Post
    If its only rarely + occasional go with it be happy.. the alternative is probably more work and hassle then its worth. just make sure your fuel source is clean and your heat shield is in place, warm up choke and heat risers are working and all should be good under the hood... any replacement would be way way more work then its worth...
    Agreed ... I don't want to tear the carb down yet over the occasional stumble. The problem didn't appear at all last night on an open top ride with my family. It does still have the heat shield and during my first lookover appeared to have all other proper connections, but I need to look in more detail to confim.
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  7. #7

    Default

    The stock 4180C off-idle flat spot is usually corrected by installing the Holley pn 121-131
    accelerator pump squirter.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
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  8. #8
    FEP Senior Member burntorange84's Avatar
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    I have one of these carbs (except the normal color), on the car right now...yet tomorrow I plan to rebuild the original 84 carb with a genuine Holley kit.

    Saturn V, that is a 85 style, like mine that has the newer choke pull-down diaphram. Nice find on the car, mine looked just like that, except copper colored.

    One area to check on such an old car is what amount of vacuum you get to the distributor when it is fully warmed up( should be about 6-8 inches of Hg). These cars run full manifold vacuum when cold and metered or a lower amount adjusted by the throttle plates when warm to advance timing. I have found the stumble in this area if it is stumbling when warm. There is a red TVS (temp. vacuum switch) on the back of the manifold that controls this changing of vacuum and if it leaks then you get full manifold vacuum all the time. Make sure you get a good hand vacuum pump, one of the best tools you'll need for an 80's emission car.

    bwguardian, I've noticed no differences on the annular primary boosters, comparing the replacement and the original 84 carb. My 84 carb had the better secondary metering plate, no two sets of idle restrictions. My 84 has always run better, but of course Pony Carbs never touched this one. My Holley replacement has only primary idle mixture screws. The ford one has 4 corner adjustment.

    The only other major difference I see between the carbs is the wide open throttle hole in the primary throttle shaft; the 85 Holley replacement one doesn't have the hole in the shaft and the original ford one does. The replacement carb seems very simular to the 4180 truck carb, from what JACook has said in other posts. I still have the original Holley replacement box the carb came in, stating 83-85 Mustang factory replacement. Oh, and the idle mixture screws had anti-tampering plugs just like original in the primary side.

    -j

  9. #9
    FEP Power Member Saturn V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burntorange84 View Post
    Saturn V, that is a 85 style, like mine that has the newer choke pull-down diaphram. Nice find on the car, mine looked just like that, except copper colored .......

    One area to check on such an old car is what amount of vacuum you get to the distributor when it is fully warmed up( should be about 6-8 inches of Hg) .......

    -j
    Thanks, burntorange84. I wonder when they switched from copper to silver (or vice versa?) on the replacement carb color? I haven't spent enough time with the car to ensure that all vacuum connections are correct/tight, and as you know there's more vacuum switches under the hood than you can shake a stick at! Good suggestion ... I'll get a vacuum pump and check distributor vacuum when warm. I guess to be thorough, I should check all vacuum switches, since there's no CPU to tell me what might be broken! More research ...

    Can you post a pic of the replacement carb box?

    I've been thinking about a South Texas get together this summer ... will tt Steve about that.

    Erik
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  10. #10
    FEP Power Member Saturn V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    The stock 4180C off-idle flat spot is usually corrected by installing the Holley pn 121-131
    accelerator pump squirter.
    Thanks, Jeff. I don't recall that that flat spot is consistently off-idle, but will pay more attention next time I drive the car and consider your suggestion.
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  11. #11
    FEP Senior Member burntorange84's Avatar
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    A little late, but better than never. I was wrong about 83-85 mustang, it says 84-85 ford.


  12. #12
    FEP Power Member Saturn V's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    burntorange84, thanks for the photo!
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  13. #13
    FEP Power Member Saturn V's Avatar
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    Has anybody seen one of these 80163's for sale at a swap meet? Who else has them besides those who posted above? I've been combing the web periodically and can't find anything about these ... are they that rare?
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  14. #14
    FEP Member 8ballEinstein's Avatar
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    Default How rare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturn V View Post
    Has anybody seen one of these 80163's for sale at a swap meet? Who else has them besides those who posted above? I've been combing the web periodically and can't find anything about these ... are they that rare?
    My guess is that Holley sold the last of these carbs in their inventory, over 10 years ago. When I got mine, I was told there weren't many left.

  15. #15
    FEP Power Member Saturn V's Avatar
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    Default found one!

    My eBay saved search finally paid off after almost 2 years of looking. This one flew under the radar, since the seller had it listed as a 650 CFM Holley 80163 that was pulled from a SBC (probably the best carb that engine had ever seen ). At $50, no one bid on it the first time (I was waiting for the seller to answer a couple of my questions before bidding). I was the only bidder the second time. The seller said that it sat on the shelf for 20 years. It seems to be in pretty good shape, though a few small parts are missing, like one fuel bowl sight plug, part of the choke assembly, and the clip for the secondary actuator rod. You guys who know 4180Cs well ... do you notice anything else missing or wrong? These carbs came with hex head float bowl screws (instead of slotted heads) and exposed idle mixture screw.

    Thanks to JACook for the recommendation to ship carbs bolted to a piece of wood, to help prevent damage. I asked the seller to do this and he complied.

    I've also received the 3-1346 rebuild kit and the list of other "trick" parts that I ordered (see http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=51130 post #4). I'm going the modified metering plate route, instead of a new metering block (didn't want to worry about stock air cleaner clearance issues.)




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  16. #16
    FEP Member n2omaverick's Avatar
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    I read about the dual snorkel air cleaner issue when running the secondary metering block but i have not had an issue!

  17. #17
    FEP Member 8ballEinstein's Avatar
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    The only other thing I see missing is the fuel line connection for the fuel filter. All else sems good to go.

    From what I gather, these replacement carbs all had the hex screws for the fuel bowls.
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by n2omaverick View Post
    I read about the dual snorkel air cleaner issue when running the secondary metering block but i have not had an issue!
    It's more of an issue with the aluminum plate that goes between the carb and the EGR spacer.
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  19. #19
    FEP Member n2omaverick's Avatar
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    Default heat shield

    Not an issue!
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  20. #20
    FEP Senior Member burntorange84's Avatar
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    Saturn V,

    What mods you've got planned for this carb?

    -j
    _________________________________________
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    GT-40's w/93 exhaust; t-bird TC brakes....

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marz View Post
    It's more of an issue with the aluminum plate that goes between the carb and the EGR spacer.
    The heat shield can be modified to clear the bowl, but others have also reported clearance
    problems between the factory rear bowl vent tube boss and the air cleaner base.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

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  22. #22
    FEP Power Member Saturn V's Avatar
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    Thanks for all comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by burntorange84 View Post
    Saturn V,

    What mods you've got planned for this carb?

    -j
    See the list in the referenced post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturn V View Post
    I've also received the 3-1346 rebuild kit and the list of other "trick" parts that I ordered (see http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=51130 post #4). I'm going the modified metering plate route, instead of a new metering block (didn't want to worry about stock air cleaner clearance issues.)
    My credo is to keep the car completely emissions legal, regardless of the fact that they don't really check in Texas. Tampering with the carb is not allowed. However, if I install emissions legal aftermarket heads, cam, intake, and headers, how does anyone expect the stock carb to not run too lean? I wonder what AFR and TFS did to get E.O. numbers for their heads for carburetor applications? Did they just have to prove emissions at idle and low speed and not worry about higher RPM lean out? I should give them a call.
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  23. #23
    FEP Senior Member burntorange84's Avatar
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    Are you doing all these and modifying the secondary metering plate? I've modified a few plates but just the idle circuits. check out his thread, lots of good stuff.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ight=secondary


    I think JACook prefers the two stage power valve in the 1346 kit last I recall and I still use mine also instead of a single stage one.

    I'd recommend the 63 or 64 primary jets

    -j
    _________________________________________
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    GT-40's w/93 exhaust; t-bird TC brakes....

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    The heat shield can be modified to clear the bowl, but others have also reported clearance
    problems between the factory rear bowl vent tube boss and the air cleaner base.
    Hmm. Ok, I didn't know the Air Cleaner base was an issue. Mine is fine too.
    1985 Mustang GT Mild 331 4bbl 5 spd, 1985 SEFI LTD LX AOD.
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  25. #25
    FEP Power Member Saturn V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burntorange84 View Post
    Are you doing all these and modifying the secondary metering plate? I've modified a few plates but just the idle circuits. check out his thread, lots of good stuff.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ight=secondary


    I think JACook prefers the two stage power valve in the 1346 kit last I recall and I still use mine also instead of a single stage one.

    I'd recommend the 63 or 64 primary jets

    -j
    Thanks for the comments. I was planning to do all in the post that I referenced above. I'm starting to get the feeling that I didn't do enough research and assumed that what JACook wrote in that post was the present recommended list of parts. That post was in 2007, and I should have done more current research. Anyway, maybe Jeff was only listing what the Motorsport Engineering and Design kit included. So here is a paraphrasing of that post and what I've ordered:




    Primary Side
    • accelerator pump squirter pn 121-131 straight style .031" orifice
    • 30cc pump diaphragm pn 135-5
    • 10.5 power valve pn 125-105
    • .110" needle and seat pn 6-504
    • .062" main jets pn 122-63.
    Secondary Side
    • Replace the metering plate with 34R9716-12 with an equivalent #73 standard jet, and also a .031" idle feed restriction (I recall reading in another post that this will need to be drilled out to achieve the required orifice)
    Other Parts I believe will be in the 3-1346 kit
    • primary bowl gasket pn 108-56
    • primary metering block gasket pn 108-55
    • secondary metering plate/bowl gasket pn 108-30
    • bowl screw gaskets pn 108-2
    • accelerator pump transfer tube O-rings pn 26-38
    • fuel transfer tube O-rings pn 26-37.
    Comments on the above? Maybe I should go with the 4150 secondary metering block kit, instead? Is the power valve above single stage? Help me to identify the right list of trick parts.
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