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  1. #1
    FEP Senior Member Sweet'86gt's Avatar
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    Default Roller Rocker Stud Fix

    Just about to switch out the broken stud. What is the correct torque specs for it all?
    Going into an AFR Head, 3/8" stud. Help?

    Thanks!

    Last edited by Sweet'86gt; 08-30-2012 at 10:39 PM.
    1986 Mustang GT T-Top 105k Miles. Grey Int. H/C/I 306 (Afr 185, RPM II Intake, X-303)

    Let's admit it, Fox's are an addiction.

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    FEP Power Member 306gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick84'GT View Post
    Just about to switch out the broken stud. What is the correct torque specs for it all?
    Going into an AFR Head, 3/8" stud. Help?

    Thanks!

    65 foot lbs should work
    85 G.T. All motor
    337 c.i.d 11.44-120 mph

    88 L.X. Hatch 5.0L H.O.
    5-speed, STOCK CAM, GT-40's, 1.7 Roller Rockers, Explorer intake, 24LB injectors, 75mm mass air, and 3.73's. 13.41-102 mph

    1984 1/2 G.T. 350 Hatchback stock for now

  3. #3
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    Call AFR
    71 Dodge Demon Green/Blk big turbo slant 6 in progress
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    93 LX Reef Blue/ Grey stock bolts on's/ T5/ 3.55 8.8
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  4. #4

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    I just put a set of ARP studs into my TW 170 & ARP recommonded 55 ft lbs w/ arp moly lube
    89LX Blk Hatch,BOSS 331,C4,T76BB,FAST EFI
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  5. #5
    FEP Senior Member Sweet'86gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsepowerjunkie View Post
    I just put a set of ARP studs into my TW 170 & ARP recommonded 55 ft lbs w/ arp moly lube
    Good deal. Moly Lube.. Any idea if I can get this at a local parts store or something for a substitute? Would hate to have to order some haha.
    1986 Mustang GT T-Top 105k Miles. Grey Int. H/C/I 306 (Afr 185, RPM II Intake, X-303)

    Let's admit it, Fox's are an addiction.

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member 86fiveoh's Avatar
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    Stock afr stud break? Had the same thing happen to me. Thinking I better order up an ARP set and replace them all.

  7. #7
    FEP Senior Member Sweet'86gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 86fiveoh View Post
    Stock afr stud break? Had the same thing happen to me. Thinking I better order up an ARP set and replace them all.
    Yep, stock AFR. I am going to test fire with just the one ARP to see if thats the only problem. Afterwards I will put all of them on. I am thinking it was a good purchase!
    1986 Mustang GT T-Top 105k Miles. Grey Int. H/C/I 306 (Afr 185, RPM II Intake, X-303)

    Let's admit it, Fox's are an addiction.

  8. #8
    FEP Super Member 86fiveoh's Avatar
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    AFR send me a pair to replace my one broken one, but I'm thinking with the number of breaks I keep hearing about on the stock studs, I better just replace them with ARP.

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member TWR2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick84'GT View Post
    Just about to switch out the broken stud. What is the correct torque specs for it all?
    Going into an AFR Head, 3/8" stud. Help?

    Thanks!
    http://www.airflowresearch.com/sbf_install.php

    Scroll down to 'Hydraulic Lifter Pre-Load'. Third sentence.
    MF: Shoot pool Fast Eddie.
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  10. #10
    FEP Senior Member Sweet'86gt's Avatar
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    Having some troubles here.. Somewhat. We tried swapping in the ARP stud, while keeping all other AFR studs in. We went for the .00125 measurement. We could get the displacement on each rocker arm to match, but, the one we were trying to switch would have more wiggle room side to side. But again, same displacement. Hard to get this all to match up perfectly.
    After comparing the two studs, we realized that the ARP studs were a bit different, all in all, a little bit longer. We are thinking this is why we can't get things to match up right.
    So, that being said, tomorrow we are going to try again but we will re-install all of the new studs in. Going with 25 Ft. Lbs. on the top bolt, 60 on the stud, and .00125 for valve lash.
    Any help/tips with the procedure would be awesome. Gonna take any tips we can get.
    Last edited by Sweet'86gt; 08-31-2012 at 12:09 AM.
    1986 Mustang GT T-Top 105k Miles. Grey Int. H/C/I 306 (Afr 185, RPM II Intake, X-303)

    Let's admit it, Fox's are an addiction.

  11. #11
    FEP Power Member 306gt's Avatar
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    I don't know what you are trying to do, but you cannot torque the top poly loc (nut). You torque the stud to 65 ft lbz. Install the rocker arm and pushrod and adjust the poly loc and tighten the set screw inside the poly loc.
    85 G.T. All motor
    337 c.i.d 11.44-120 mph

    88 L.X. Hatch 5.0L H.O.
    5-speed, STOCK CAM, GT-40's, 1.7 Roller Rockers, Explorer intake, 24LB injectors, 75mm mass air, and 3.73's. 13.41-102 mph

    1984 1/2 G.T. 350 Hatchback stock for now

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    ya just read AFR's site that was posted the .00125" is for the valve guide clearance NOT valve lash

    they say 1/4- 1/2 turn from seated for stud mount RR's

    you need to check the geometry - paint the tip of the valve stem with a Sharpie marker and install the rocker moving it as little as posible - rotate the motor over by hand 4 revolutions and take it off to see the mark

    if they move side to side check the pushrod for wear
    71 Dodge Demon Green/Blk big turbo slant 6 in progress
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    93 LX Reef Blue/ Grey stock bolts on's/ T5/ 3.55 8.8
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    93 LX build thread
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  13. #13
    FEP Senior Member Sweet'86gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 306gt View Post
    I don't know what you are trying to do, but you cannot torque the top poly loc (nut). You torque the stud to 65 ft lbz. Install the rocker arm and pushrod and adjust the poly loc and tighten the set screw inside the poly loc.
    ....? Now you have me lost.
    1986 Mustang GT T-Top 105k Miles. Grey Int. H/C/I 306 (Afr 185, RPM II Intake, X-303)

    Let's admit it, Fox's are an addiction.

  14. #14
    FEP Senior Member Sweet'86gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zac_f83 View Post
    ya just read AFR's site that was posted the .00125" is for the valve guide clearance NOT valve lash

    they say 1/4- 1/2 turn from seated for stud mount RR's

    you need to check the geometry - paint the tip of the valve stem with a Sharpie marker and install the rocker moving it as little as posible - rotate the motor over by hand 4 revolutions and take it off to see the mark

    if they move side to side check the pushrod for wear
    So, checking wear.. What's that got anything to do with anything? Will that show me excessive movement side to side? Or is side to side movement simply a way to check for worn pushrods..? Kinda in the dark here.

    Thanks

    EDIT/P.S. - What should I do for Valve Lash then?
    1986 Mustang GT T-Top 105k Miles. Grey Int. H/C/I 306 (Afr 185, RPM II Intake, X-303)

    Let's admit it, Fox's are an addiction.

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    Valve lash is for solid lifter cams, are you running a solid lifter? Cam specs should give lash info. If you're running a hydraulic lifter, you need to set pre-load.
    That .00125" clearance you're reading about is for valve guide clearance not lash. I notice AFR states that the rocker studs are NOT torqued from the factory. Did you torque them before installation?

    From the linked page:

    *WARNING*

    Rocker studs are installed for shipping purposes only! These studs must be sealed and toruqed to 60ft/lbs before running the engine.

    Also from the link:

    Hydraulic Lifter Pre-Load:

    With part #'s 1400, 1402, 1420, & 1422 (stud mount) cylinder heads hydraulic lifter pre-load is easily adjustable due to the stud/guide plate design. Harden heat treated chrome moly pushrods are required with guideplate style heads. Rocker arm studs should be torqued to 60 ft./lbs. they are not torqued from AFR, torque pedestal rocker arms to stock recommendation. On part #'s 1472, and 1492 adjustments to lifter pre-load with non-adjustable pedestal bolt down rocker arms cam only be made with shims as sold by Ford SVO HM-6529-A302 or Crane #99170-1. AFR recommends 1/4 - 1/2 turn pre-load for hydraulic cams. Rocker arm geometry should be checked making sure that the contact point of the roller or pad on a stock rocker remains centered on the valve tip and does not roll off the edge. Visual inspection of the rockers, valve springs, retainers, and pushrods should be made to ensure that none of the components come into contact with each other. If problems with valve train exist, simple changes such as pushrod length may have to be made. If pushrod to cylinder head contact is evident loosen rocker stud and re-align guideplate as needed.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick84'GT View Post
    So, checking wear.. What's that got anything to do with anything? Will that show me excessive movement side to side? Or is side to side movement simply a way to check for worn pushrods..? Kinda in the dark here.

    Thanks

    EDIT/P.S. - What should I do for Valve Lash then?
    Lash/preload on hyd roller is 1/4 to 1/2 turn from the adjusting nut being seated on the rocker - HERE is what you do- take your thumb and pointer finger and rotate the pushrod back and forth while turning the adjusting nut slowly- once you can't turn the pushrod turn the nut 1/4-1/2 turn and lock it down- AGAIN do the marker on the valve tip to make sure the rocker don't go off the valve tip-

    the guide plates under the rockers keep the pushrods/rockers straight in line with the valve tip- check for worn pushrods/guide plates IF you have side to side movement- my setup has NONE

    The valve train geometry is VERY important a few on here have learned about the pit falls of a combo cobbled together and they wonder why a valve guide gets wiped out and breaks a valve...

    I learned all this from a local to me professional engine builder and Ed Cutis of FTI (he is a avid poster on Corral) for the combo to last- the gaps and geometry has to be done- or it will not only not make as much power as it could it will fail... my heads/rockers/pushrods have been on 3-4 different engines have 12k miles on them and looked amazing when I inspected them before bolting them on- they make NO valve train noise at all

    Not trying to be a dick man just educating you cause if you're like me you can't afford another pair of heads, let alone letting a pro builder put your combo together
    Last edited by zac_f83; 09-01-2012 at 12:09 PM.
    71 Dodge Demon Green/Blk big turbo slant 6 in progress
    83 GT Red/Blk HCI 306/ 3550/ 4.30 8.8
    93 LX Reef Blue/ Grey stock bolts on's/ T5/ 3.55 8.8
    page 1 of my 83 GT build thread
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=85989

    93 LX build thread
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  17. #17
    FEP Senior Member Sweet'86gt's Avatar
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    Thanks. THIS is why I post about things, lol. This just made things MUCH simpler.. :P

    You werent being a dick, zac, thanks for the help! I will go give it a wing and hope for the best, lol.
    1986 Mustang GT T-Top 105k Miles. Grey Int. H/C/I 306 (Afr 185, RPM II Intake, X-303)

    Let's admit it, Fox's are an addiction.

  18. #18
    FEP Senior Member Sweet'86gt's Avatar
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    Okay. So I feel like I keep getting too tight on the rocker arm? By the time the pushrod cannot spin anymore, I can only get maybe 1/8th of a turn in before the rocker arm like wont even budge anymore. Plus. The Locking Alen(?) Style nut thing in the center of the adjustment nut on top of the rocker seems to sit very high, It is not nearly as low as with the AFR studs.
    1986 Mustang GT T-Top 105k Miles. Grey Int. H/C/I 306 (Afr 185, RPM II Intake, X-303)

    Let's admit it, Fox's are an addiction.

  19. #19

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    Disregard everything I say, because I am not experienced.. but here is my single experience and you can tell me if I did wrong:

    The process is confusing. The first time I ever adjusted stud mounted rocker arms (just a couple months ago), I did so with the intake removed. It is a good thing too because you can see what is happening. If the pushrod starts to push down in the lifter then you are past "0 lash" from my understanding. Also, I found that at "0 lash" it doesn't necessarily mean you cannot turn the pushrod. I could still turn them fine, there is just slightly more resistance.

    Another thing (being a newbie) is that I thought the lifters should have been "pumpable" by hand. Since the lifters were not being replaced (I was just reinstalling everything after replacing all the valve springs and I also thew on some isky adjustable guideplates) I guess they were still pumped with oil. I tried to pump them by hand and they felt solid. When doing the extra 1/2 turn past zero lash it opened the valves before pushing the plungers down in the lifters. I came back later and all the valves had closed, and every pushrod could be turned with two fingers and I could easily push the rocker arms to "plunge" the lifters. I experimented some and found that the Comp Cams lifters still had a bunch of plunger travel available, I should have done 3/4 of a turn.

  20. #20
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    Mine are 3/4 turn- you have to rotate the motor over- as long as you have the cylinder you're adjusting at TDC (I follow the firing order) they will change and loosen up while adjusting everything cause the oil in the lifters bleeds out- once oil pressure gets to the lifters it will be fine
    71 Dodge Demon Green/Blk big turbo slant 6 in progress
    83 GT Red/Blk HCI 306/ 3550/ 4.30 8.8
    93 LX Reef Blue/ Grey stock bolts on's/ T5/ 3.55 8.8
    page 1 of my 83 GT build thread
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=85989

    93 LX build thread
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...73#post1569973

  21. #21
    FEP Senior Member Sweet'86gt's Avatar
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    Just as a little update..
    Got all of the ones on the Passenger Head. Started it up, sounded like SH!T. At least to me, inside of the car. Buddies outside of the car said it wasnt terrible, really just sounded like the rockers were loose or something.
    Going to go through again and maybe re-torque or something. Not too sure yet. Gonna figure things out tomorrow after work. Will update again afterwards with questions and progress.
    1986 Mustang GT T-Top 105k Miles. Grey Int. H/C/I 306 (Afr 185, RPM II Intake, X-303)

    Let's admit it, Fox's are an addiction.

  22. #22
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    As an alternative to spinning the pushrod you can try moving it up & down as you slowly tighten the adjusting nut. When can't feel any up/down play, you have reached '0' lash. Tighten the nut another 1/4-1/2 turn and set the lock screw. As has been mentioned, you must be on the base circle of the cam when doing this. If you are tightening the rocker to the point that you can't turn the pushrod, you may be tightening too much. Here's a procedure taken from another website(sbf.com) Hope this helps.

    Adjusting Valvetrain

    This is the system I use when adjusting stud mount roller rockers on my small block Fords with an Hydraulic Roller Camshaft. This will also work for almost any engine using adjustable roller rockers* and a hydraulic style cam and lifter combination (roller or not). My particular Roller Rocker Arms on my 351w with World Products Windsor Heads are Trick Flow 51400520 - 1.6 ratio for a 7/16" stud.

    1. Remove the valve covers, and pick a cylinder you are going to set the preload on. I think the easiest and fastest way is to just follow the firing order. For the 5.0 HO and 351w the firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. Start with the No. 1 cylinder (passenger side front).

    2. Hand rotate the engine in its normal direction of rotation and watch the exhaust valve on that particular cylinder. When the exhaust valve begins to open, stop. You are now ready to adjust that cylinder's intake rocker arm.

    3. Back off the intake rocker arm adjuster and remove any tension from the pushrod. Wait a minute or two for that hydraulic lifter to return to a neutral position. The spring inside the lifter will move the pushrod seat up against the retaining lock if you give it time to do so.

    4. Now pull up and down (or rotate) the intake pushrod with your fingers while tightening down the rocker arm. When you feel a slight resistance to the movement of the pushrod, you are at "Zero Lash". Turn the adjusting nut down one quarter to one half turn from that point. Lock the adjuster into position. The intake is now adjusted properly.




    5. Continue to hand turn the engine, watching that same intake. It will go to full open and then begin to close. When it is almost closed, stop and adjust the exhaust rocker arm on that particular cylinder. Loosen the exhaust rocker arm and follow the same procedure described before in steps 3 and 4 to adjust this rocker arm.

    6. Both valves on this cylinder are now adjusted, and you can move on to your next cylinder and follow the same procedure again.

    *If you are using a bolt down pedestal type rocker, or using a mechanical camshaft, consult a Chiltons/Haynes or other manual for guidance, as this procedure works only on valvetrains using adjustable stud mount rocker arms and hydraulic lifters.

  23. #23
    FEP Senior Member Sweet'86gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmatt View Post
    As an alternative to spinning the pushrod you can try moving it up & down as you slowly tighten the adjusting nut. When can't feel any up/down play, you have reached '0' lash. Tighten the nut another 1/4-1/2 turn and set the lock screw. As has been mentioned, you must be on the base circle of the cam when doing this. If you are tightening the rocker to the point that you can't turn the pushrod, you may be tightening too much. Here's a procedure taken from another website(sbf.com) Hope this helps.

    Adjusting Valvetrain

    This is the system I use when adjusting stud mount roller rockers on my small block Fords with an Hydraulic Roller Camshaft. This will also work for almost any engine using adjustable roller rockers* and a hydraulic style cam and lifter combination (roller or not). My particular Roller Rocker Arms on my 351w with World Products Windsor Heads are Trick Flow 51400520 - 1.6 ratio for a 7/16" stud.

    1. Remove the valve covers, and pick a cylinder you are going to set the preload on. I think the easiest and fastest way is to just follow the firing order. For the 5.0 HO and 351w the firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. Start with the No. 1 cylinder (passenger side front).

    2. Hand rotate the engine in its normal direction of rotation and watch the exhaust valve on that particular cylinder. When the exhaust valve begins to open, stop. You are now ready to adjust that cylinder's intake rocker arm.

    3. Back off the intake rocker arm adjuster and remove any tension from the pushrod. Wait a minute or two for that hydraulic lifter to return to a neutral position. The spring inside the lifter will move the pushrod seat up against the retaining lock if you give it time to do so.

    4. Now pull up and down (or rotate) the intake pushrod with your fingers while tightening down the rocker arm. When you feel a slight resistance to the movement of the pushrod, you are at "Zero Lash". Turn the adjusting nut down one quarter to one half turn from that point. Lock the adjuster into position. The intake is now adjusted properly.




    5. Continue to hand turn the engine, watching that same intake. It will go to full open and then begin to close. When it is almost closed, stop and adjust the exhaust rocker arm on that particular cylinder. Loosen the exhaust rocker arm and follow the same procedure described before in steps 3 and 4 to adjust this rocker arm.

    6. Both valves on this cylinder are now adjusted, and you can move on to your next cylinder and follow the same procedure again.

    *If you are using a bolt down pedestal type rocker, or using a mechanical camshaft, consult a Chiltons/Haynes or other manual for guidance, as this procedure works only on valvetrains using adjustable stud mount rocker arms and hydraulic lifters.
    Pretty much what we've done, except, we didnt give the lifters anytime to move back to a neutral position. I am wondering if ths could have caused our problem? We did every one of the them a half turn after the pushrod had no more movement up n down and couldnt be easily spun. As mentioned, it sounded like they were too loose. Iffy.
    Also, not sure how tight the rocker arm should be when you tighten it down in the end? I feel like they are WAY too tight when theyre on. However, they SOUND loose when the car is on.
    Also, aftrer we spin the motor to get the next TDC, the rockers we just tighten will loosen up, even when back to TDC on the particular, it seems to be loosening. Just a Little bit. It allows side to side movement a littttle bit on the rocker arm itself, but again, the pushrod cannot move up n down and I cannot spin it.
    1986 Mustang GT T-Top 105k Miles. Grey Int. H/C/I 306 (Afr 185, RPM II Intake, X-303)

    Let's admit it, Fox's are an addiction.

  24. #24
    FEP Senior Member Sweet'86gt's Avatar
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    Just as an update, if anybody cares, getting close with it, got some final adjustments to make then she should be on the road! Got 2 rockers that seem to not be tight enough. Had to call it a day for now though, got family coming soon.
    Anywho, yeah for anybody that cares, finally figuring this out.
    Thanks for all of the tips and information, was lost at the start of this.
    1986 Mustang GT T-Top 105k Miles. Grey Int. H/C/I 306 (Afr 185, RPM II Intake, X-303)

    Let's admit it, Fox's are an addiction.

  25. #25
    FEP Senior Member Sweet'86gt's Avatar
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    Having troubles... again.. -.- Thought my problems were over, but they're not.
    Took the car on it's first drive since the "fix"... Well, it had some hiccups.

    1.) Had a weird idle, sounded messier than before. I think some better valve adjustment will help this.

    2.) Smoked at idle, more than what I thought it did before all of this.

    3.) When I would Blip the throttle (clutch in, or just out of gear), it would have a weird reaction. For instance, It would kind of hiccup, then rev.

    4.) After a maybe 5 minute drive, of nothing above 3,400 RPM, it overheated when I got back home. It got up to 230 Degrees and was smoking like a chimney. Not quite, but definitely a good haze of smoked when I looked back to the back side of the car.. Smelled Coolanty to me but what the hell do I know. Just smelled sweeter than it should have.

    Not sure what the hell to do at this point. Only things running through my head right now; Hoping my headgaskets arent destroyed, hope the new water pump isnt causing problems, and I need a daily.

    Someone able to help out and trouble-shoot a bit..? Damn car has been nothing but trouble since the first week.. Starting to regret the purchase. Hope that overheating for a second didnt really mess anything up..
    1986 Mustang GT T-Top 105k Miles. Grey Int. H/C/I 306 (Afr 185, RPM II Intake, X-303)

    Let's admit it, Fox's are an addiction.

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