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  1. #1

    Default HO cam versus F150 cam

    Ok stupid me went in on this project with blinders on but I bought an engine for my car that came out of an F150 that orginally came out of an 86 mustang. regardless I had to change out the f150 parts(intake,oil pan, sump screen, etc) I now have the car running fairly well in the mustang but discovered the firing order is for the f150 not the mustang(as I said learning) and if I change to the mustang firing order the car runs but not as good as the f150 order. So now I want to know what the differences in the camshafts are. is it different lift? Different Duration? if the firing order is different what will I need to change to make this engine work for my needs? All I want is stock setup nothing exciting Help !
    Ben
    67 camaro convertable project
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  2. #2
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    Default

    The firing order for the 5.0 HO motor is the same as that of the 351w and the firing order for the 302 (non HO) motor is different. What firing order are you working with?
    HAD
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  3. #3

    Default

    302 non HO at the moment.(302 F150) With everything else correct for the HO mustang.
    Ben
    67 camaro convertable project
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  4. #4
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Default

    Is this car still running the fuel injection and computer? (86, right?) I believe the only thing that determines the firing order is the cam- but I am surprised that the mustang computer would run a f150 firing order cam well. That being said, I know squat about the mustang F.I setups, which is why I run caveman-style with a carb.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Edelbrock Performer intake and 600 CFM carb,Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes -13.5 @ 102 spinning on street tires--

  5. #5

    Default

    My buddy had an 89 GT with a non-HO 302 in it. It ran fine with the SEFI on it. Run the non-HO firing order.

    As for the cams, I don't know the specs offhand, but the stock HO cam is better than the F-150 cam performance wise. Also, the HO cam was a roller cam, versus the F-150 having a flat tappet cam.

    Justin
    1985 Mustang GT 5.0 CFI/AOD (originally)
    Now AFR 185 Renegade headed 306, Edelbrock Victor Jr. 302 Intake, Holley 670 Street Avenger, FTI/Ed Curtis custom cam, 170amp large case 3G Alternator, PA AOD, 3500rpm Stall, FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft, MM C/C plates, Tokico HP's, MM full length SFC's, SN95 Cobra brakes front and rear, 31 spline Fox length 8.8" with 4.10's, MM rear lowers and FRPP uppers, Jet Hot ceramic coated FRPP shorties, Pypes X-pipe, SpinTech Pro Streets.

    1984 Mustang LX 5.0 4bbl/T5 (Sold to my buddy)

    LS swaps are the hair implants of the car world. Sure the owner is proud, but everyone else is laughing.

  6. #6

    Default

    Using a non-H.O. firing order with an H.O. ECM messes things up. It is not as simple as changing the firing order of the distributor and the injectors and then running the stock computer. The H.O. ECM expects a certain exhaust pulse timing (via HEGO sensor feedback) and when it's not what it is expencting you may get stumbling, surgng, hunting idle, etc..

    So either change the cam to H.O. firing order or use a non-H.O. ECM.
    Looking for: stock/unmodified, light or dark blue OR light or dark grey 1986 5.0L coupe or Saleen, or stock/unmodified 1985 North Carolina State Highway Patrol SSP

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  7. #7

    Default

    Ok Thanks for all the input It does help and it ticks me off on me trusting the guy I bought the engine from and for me notchecking for myself when I was in there.
    anyhow so what will be required to change to the HO stuff

    Cam,
    Lifters
    dizzy gear
    Spider and retainers(dont know what they look like but have seen it mentioned)

    Now anyone have some stock stuff they are looking to get rid of?

    I must say that it does run strangly well with the NON- HO firing order.

    I do have the luxery of doing all the body work and paint next so the cam is not super important at the moment as I have progressed so far on this project that I am keeping the cam issue in perspective. I do think it will be in paint beore the cam is changed but need to get as many parts assembled and as much info so I dont have to do it a 3rd time.

    thanks again
    Ben
    67 camaro convertable project
    86 gt project (for sale)
    90 porsche 911 (sold)
    09 toyota tacoma
    07 burb
    mustang parts for sale http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...42#post1406542

  8. #8

    Default

    I just took two HO motors apart and I have a bunch of parts, Ill send you a PM and we can work it out....
    85 GT Vert' (CFI converted to EFI), 306 TFS 170's, Systemax II, Lunati cam, 8.8 w/3.73, Ford Racing T-5, AFM Powerpipe
    317 rwhp 304 rwtq

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mb911 View Post
    Ok Thanks for all the input It does help and it ticks me off on me trusting the guy I bought the engine from and for me notchecking for myself when I was in there.
    anyhow so what will be required to change to the HO stuff

    Cam,
    Lifters
    dizzy gear
    Spider and retainers(dont know what they look like but have seen it mentioned)

    Now anyone have some stock stuff they are looking to get rid of?

    I must say that it does run strangly well with the NON- HO firing order.

    I do have the luxery of doing all the body work and paint next so the cam is not super important at the moment as I have progressed so far on this project that I am keeping the cam issue in perspective. I do think it will be in paint beore the cam is changed but need to get as many parts assembled and as much info so I dont have to do it a 3rd time.

    thanks again
    Hopefully you have a roller block. Do you have the threaded bosses cast in the lifter valley? Hopefully you do....

    Justin
    1985 Mustang GT 5.0 CFI/AOD (originally)
    Now AFR 185 Renegade headed 306, Edelbrock Victor Jr. 302 Intake, Holley 670 Street Avenger, FTI/Ed Curtis custom cam, 170amp large case 3G Alternator, PA AOD, 3500rpm Stall, FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft, MM C/C plates, Tokico HP's, MM full length SFC's, SN95 Cobra brakes front and rear, 31 spline Fox length 8.8" with 4.10's, MM rear lowers and FRPP uppers, Jet Hot ceramic coated FRPP shorties, Pypes X-pipe, SpinTech Pro Streets.

    1984 Mustang LX 5.0 4bbl/T5 (Sold to my buddy)

    LS swaps are the hair implants of the car world. Sure the owner is proud, but everyone else is laughing.

  10. #10

    Default

    Not tough to convert to a roller setup....pretty straight forward to drill/tap the bosses that are there. Just need the spider bar and dog bones.
    85 GT Vert' (CFI converted to EFI), 306 TFS 170's, Systemax II, Lunati cam, 8.8 w/3.73, Ford Racing T-5, AFM Powerpipe
    317 rwhp 304 rwtq

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by QisJob1 View Post
    Not tough to convert to a roller setup....pretty straight forward to drill/tap the bosses that are there. Just need the spider bar and dog bones.
    This is true. But only if the block is an OEM roller block.

    If the block is a flat tappet hydraulic cam, then you can do the same as above, but you must run a small base circle custom hydraulic roller camshaft.

    Othewise you will have to run the aftermarket linked hydraulic roller lifters available from Competition Cams and others.

    Good Luck!

    Trey
    "I never drive faster than I can see, besides it's all in the reflexes!"

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
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  12. #12

    Default

    ok humer me on this. If I were to move injector plugs to mirror the f150 firing order would the engine run properly until I get a chance to change out the cam etc? I am assuming that really is my issue now.
    Ben
    67 camaro convertable project
    86 gt project (for sale)
    90 porsche 911 (sold)
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    mustang parts for sale http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...42#post1406542

  13. #13
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxChassis View Post
    Using a non-H.O. firing order with an H.O. ECM messes things up. It is not as simple as changing the firing order of the distributor and the injectors and then running the stock computer. The H.O. ECM expects a certain exhaust pulse timing (via HEGO sensor feedback) and when it's not what it is expecting you may get stumbling, surging, hunting idle, etc..

    So either change the cam to H.O. firing order or use a non-H.O. ECM.
    What he said.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Edelbrock Performer intake and 600 CFM carb,Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes -13.5 @ 102 spinning on street tires--

  14. #14

    Default

    IMHO you will not have enough wiring to attempt this repair. I also don't believe that it will correct your problem.

    If you were to try this, you would most likely have to repin the harness going into the computer. I still wouldn't recommend it either as you will have to change it back once you correct the camshaft issue.

    I am sure it's not the answer you want, but . . . Sorry!

    Trey
    "I never drive faster than I can see, besides it's all in the reflexes!"

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  15. #15
    FEP Senior Member 4EYED85's Avatar
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    Default

    Not sure what year, yours is, or if you have to pass emmisions. You could just bolt a intake, dizzy, and a carb on it and not worry about the ecm.

  16. #16

    Default

    no emmsions required where I live so thats a non issue.

    Now where are the serial numbers located and what should look for to indentify what I have? It looks like I can buy 302's all day long for about $300 pan to intake but unknown condition at least with this one I know I have non smoker but need to know what I have. I can tell you this it has a boss on the back of the block that a large sensor is threaded into so it seems clear to me it is an EFI engine block but who knows I have been wrong all along
    Ben
    67 camaro convertable project
    86 gt project (for sale)
    90 porsche 911 (sold)
    09 toyota tacoma
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    mustang parts for sale http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...42#post1406542

  17. #17

    Default

    This is what the block says
    E5AE with a big 21 over it
    C3B
    5E0

    and the heads have R stamped on them.

    I think I have determined it is an 85 block with the roller cam bosses does that seam correct?
    Ben
    67 camaro convertable project
    86 gt project (for sale)
    90 porsche 911 (sold)
    09 toyota tacoma
    07 burb
    mustang parts for sale http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...42#post1406542

  18. #18

    Default

    anyone?

    Qisjob1 has found all the parts I need just waiting to hear back on if anyone can decode what I have
    Ben
    67 camaro convertable project
    86 gt project (for sale)
    90 porsche 911 (sold)
    09 toyota tacoma
    07 burb
    mustang parts for sale http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...42#post1406542

  19. #19

    Default

    Did some searching and your block is an 1985 Truck Roller block. Only way to know if its an HO is to look in the lifter valley...if you see "X's....X X X" then its an HO.

    Sent you a pm too..
    85 GT Vert' (CFI converted to EFI), 306 TFS 170's, Systemax II, Lunati cam, 8.8 w/3.73, Ford Racing T-5, AFM Powerpipe
    317 rwhp 304 rwtq

  20. #20

    Default

    XXX or YYY in the lifer valley does not indicate what type (roller or non-roller, H.O. or non-H.O) the block is.

    "A" in the engineering number means "generic Ford". In other words, the block was originally engineered for no particular 1985 Ford vehicle.

    Only way to tell what the block came out of is the VIN stamped on the flat pad behind the lifter valley.
    Looking for: stock/unmodified, light or dark blue OR light or dark grey 1986 5.0L coupe or Saleen, or stock/unmodified 1985 North Carolina State Highway Patrol SSP

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    Wanted (Dead or Alive): VINs, door tags, buck tags, build sheets, window stickers, owner cards, transmission tags, axle tags

  21. #21

    Default

    All the HO mustang roller blocks Ive seen always had the XXX's....my bad then

    Either way, its good hes got the roller block.
    85 GT Vert' (CFI converted to EFI), 306 TFS 170's, Systemax II, Lunati cam, 8.8 w/3.73, Ford Racing T-5, AFM Powerpipe
    317 rwhp 304 rwtq

  22. #22

    Default

    XXX was stamped in blocks before any of them were roller.

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by QisJob1 View Post
    All the HO mustang roller blocks Ive seen always had the XXX's....my bad then

    Either way, its good hes got the roller block.
    My 306's block started life as the original engine from my buddys 89 GT. The block has "YYY" cast into the lifter valley.

    Justin
    1985 Mustang GT 5.0 CFI/AOD (originally)
    Now AFR 185 Renegade headed 306, Edelbrock Victor Jr. 302 Intake, Holley 670 Street Avenger, FTI/Ed Curtis custom cam, 170amp large case 3G Alternator, PA AOD, 3500rpm Stall, FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft, MM C/C plates, Tokico HP's, MM full length SFC's, SN95 Cobra brakes front and rear, 31 spline Fox length 8.8" with 4.10's, MM rear lowers and FRPP uppers, Jet Hot ceramic coated FRPP shorties, Pypes X-pipe, SpinTech Pro Streets.

    1984 Mustang LX 5.0 4bbl/T5 (Sold to my buddy)

    LS swaps are the hair implants of the car world. Sure the owner is proud, but everyone else is laughing.

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxChassis View Post
    XXX was stamped in blocks before any of them were roller.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackgt85 View Post
    My 306's block started life as the original engine from my buddys 89 GT. The block has "YYY" cast into the lifter valley.

    Justin
    Holy crap guys, I said my bad....cant we just be happy for the guy that its a roller block?

    Good luck on figuring everything out and keep us posted on your findings and which way you go...
    85 GT Vert' (CFI converted to EFI), 306 TFS 170's, Systemax II, Lunati cam, 8.8 w/3.73, Ford Racing T-5, AFM Powerpipe
    317 rwhp 304 rwtq

  25. #25

    Default

    ok so its confirmed a roller block? a bit confused
    Ben
    67 camaro convertable project
    86 gt project (for sale)
    90 porsche 911 (sold)
    09 toyota tacoma
    07 burb
    mustang parts for sale http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...42#post1406542

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