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  1. #26
    FEP Senior Member quikstang2's Avatar
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    There are some good suggestions here, I'm subscribing.

    Quote Originally Posted by IDMooseMan View Post
    If 150 HP is a bit much for this street-use engine, based on your experiences with this engine, what is a reasonable HP level I could expect to achieve and still maintain decent (20+) MPG?
    I think the best N/A version of this motor from the factory was the 98-00 2.5L in the Rangers that got 119hp and 149tq. I get about 23mpg, on average, with the extended cab truck. Supposedly the 2.5L has the best flowing intake, head, and header, as well as the optimal cam setup, for any of the stock stuff.
    It seems like that would be a good place to start, or something to compare to, when building your motor. Getting another 30hp from the 2.5L shouldn't be overly difficult.
    2015 Jeep Wrangler Sport
    1984 Mustang convertible

  2. #27
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    2.5L? You meant 2.3L, right? Or, did the Ranger have a 2.5L available? I'm not sure. If it did, is the 2.5L head a direct swap to my 2.3L? No modifications, just unbolt the 2.3L head and bolt on the 2.5L head?
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
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  3. #28
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Those engines evolved so much a lot of parts wont interchange, nor would the result be worth the cost and effort.

    Tuning for torque, removing weight, works well for a regular street car.
    Constant minor tinkering and tweaking with stock engines can reward.
    Each one is a little unique in what they need to bring out the best in them.

    Drove flat surface streets yesterday for 25 miles, using 5th when over 30 mph.
    Kept the engine at 1200-2000. Rarely drive that way.
    Est 24-25 mpg driving easy, keeping the turbo boost light off.
    The engine never bucked or anything.
    Proves to me an earlier 2.3 can do pretty well as is.

    Ford did offer a 2.5 stroker kit for the later, small journal 2.3.

    http://www.therangerstation.com/tech...cylinders.html

  4. #29
    FEP User vern2.3's Avatar
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    You can turn any year 2.3 into a 2.5, if you want to spend the money.

    On older large crank journal engines you have to spend extra money for the replacement main caps and crank spacers to run the 2.5's small journal crank. But swapping in the 2.5 crank, rods and pistons turns any 2.3 into a 2.5.

    I have a turbo 2.3 block built out to 2.5 sitting in the garage right now. I need the turbo block for the oil return port on the block rather than screwing around drilling a drain oil in a cast aluminum dry sump oil pan and risking messing up the dry sump system's oil flow pattern.

    That said, running a 2.5 block has its advantages, such as being set-up for distributorless ingition and having the factory cast aluminum oil pan. However the 2.5 and later 2.3s used the dual plug head, which are near useless for performance purposes. So a head swap to an older head or an aftermarket head would be needed.

    Later model 2.3s had the DIS and the cast oil pan well and if you want to play cheater, are a good starting point for building a 2.5 or even a 2.7 stroker motor.

  5. #30
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    This is why I wanted to discuss these options early. I wasn't sure what could be done with the 2.3L, and now I have many options. I think my HP dream is more realistic now.

    The only things I still need to obtain before starting a project such as this is, TIME and MONEY. Other than that, I'm good to go.

    This discussion is great. Keep it going.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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  6. #31

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    If you're on a budget- Weber DFEV carburetor, mild roller cam, MSD 6A ignition box, remove the smog pump and related hardware, get better flowing exhaust.

    My Capri has a bit more power to it now since I ditched the 1 barrel carb (83-86 only) and all the terrible emissions crap. I am using a stock roller cam out of a Ranger. Makes it run smoothly.
    86 Mercury Capri GS 2.3L
    11 Ford Ranger XL 2.3L
    10 Ford Focus SE 2.0L




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  7. #32
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Isn't my Holley 5200 basically the same thing as the Weber DFEV? I have some Hi-Perf stuff for a '79 5.0L Ghia Hatchback I bought MANY, MANY moons ago still in the garage. I'll hafta see what ignition box I have in the "parts" stash. I have some BBK/Brothers suspension stuff, too. Hmmmm...
    Last edited by IDMooseMan; 06-18-2012 at 02:57 AM.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
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  8. #33

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    Yep. The DFEV and 5200 are basically the same. The great thing about that is most Weber parts fit your carb- like jets and air correctors. I played with mine and got it just about perfect!
    86 Mercury Capri GS 2.3L
    11 Ford Ranger XL 2.3L
    10 Ford Focus SE 2.0L




    19 Years of Foureyedpride.com

  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by IDMooseMan View Post
    What mods would I have to do to reach 150 HP? Is this motor capable of handling that HP level? Stock is 88 HP, right? Can I reach higher HP levels? Is 150 HP too much to expect from a N/A 2.3L engine? I have no plans on adding a turbo. Is there a supercharger available for this engine? Ooooh, that would be cool.

    My little 4-banger has potential, but I want to keep it streetable, too. This car is my DD.

    Just trying to gather info for now and want to start dialog for a future project.
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2433289/1984-ford-mustang

  10. #35
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    One nice thing about a 2.3- motors are cheap! You could buy a junkyard 2.3 from a ranger, pull the head, work your magic on it, and swap it over in about a day. Rebuild the lower end, and swap the rest of the motor over as you wish.(I know this is your daily driver) You can do the parts hunting, assembly, etc without downing your car.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  11. #36
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Boost-Gobbler - Thanks for that link. Down the page a bit it states, "Motor turns 2850rpm at 55mph. I'll drive it anywhere as long as I have gas money. It only gets about 11 to 12 miles a gallon and wont run on pump gas. She likes the good stuff."

    This is not what I'm trying to do with my car.

    Brian, that's a good approach. I'll consider that when I decide to start this project sometime in the future.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by IDMooseMan View Post
    Boost-Gobbler - Thanks for that link. Down the page a bit it states, "Motor turns 2850rpm at 55mph. I'll drive it anywhere as long as I have gas money. It only gets about 11 to 12 miles a gallon and wont run on pump gas. She likes the good stuff."

    This is not what I'm trying to do with my car.

    Brian, that's a good approach. I'll consider that when I decide to start this project sometime in the future.
    I didnt think so, i figured it wold be good for inspiration, or to give you an idea of higher potential.

  13. #38

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    My first 2.3L went 0-60 in literally 55 seconds.... Clogged cats, bad spark plugs (bad gaps), timing WAY OFF... after I messed with it it became closer to 0-60 in 35 seconds.... Naturally aspirated carb'd 2.3l I don't think you'll get the "passing power" you really want.
    (all just opinions which have no validity); I think it'd be better to just do all the extra work to find a turbo 2.3L (merkur motor) and swap it in, I don't like electrical work so that harness will obviously be a hassle, but always doable.

  14. #39
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    I still need to do something with the cat. I'd like to replace the exhaust system, but am not finding an aftermarket kit for the 2.3L cars. The shops will do a custom system for me, with cat, for $300 - $500 depending on the shop. They will NOT install a system without the cat.

    I don't have access to a welder or a mandrel pipe bender. I wonder if I could convince a tech school or college student to do it for me, as a project.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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  15. #40
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    There is a thread from a few days ago that someone posted the exhaust system diagram for an 84-85 5.0 GT on. It has a single pipe from the cat to dual mufflers and tailpipes. It seems it would be easy to hook this setup behind a 2.3., and it would certainly flow all you need. Plus you can use all factory/factory replacement parts.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  16. #41
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Bought a pipe similar to this one.
    http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...RPEXHAAMS_____

    I have it for future dual setup, like late model SVO.
    Short mufflers can be dumped ahead of axle.
    Along with exhaust fumes.
    Or reverse flow mufflers to side dumps, except sub frame connectors on mine kind of block this.
    Flat oval tubing may work from muffler to side exit tips.
    60's Vette style side pipe kits prob would fit too.

    A trial fitting of the pipe did ease the pressure of wanting duals immediately.
    Ran it a little w/o mufflers. Added extra hangers.

    A dual hump crossover would give max clearance.
    However, a dual hump crossover is not a direct fit to early fox chassis.

    Duals are not a direct fit on early Fox, although have seen it done at car shows.
    Fuel lines are run down the pass side DS tunnel on mine.
    Also right rear over axle area is blocked by brake and fuel lines.
    These all can be relocated of course. Time and money again.

  17. #42
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDMooseMan View Post
    I still need to do something with the cat. I'd like to replace the exhaust system, but am not finding an aftermarket kit for the 2.3L cars. The shops will do a custom system for me, with cat, for $300 - $500 depending on the shop. They will NOT install a system without the cat.

    I don't have access to a welder or a mandrel pipe bender. I wonder if I could convince a tech school or college student to do it for me, as a project.
    As for the CAT, if you use a good quality aftermarket unit, it will not hurt your performance in anyway. Heck for some of us that are getting older a good CAT system helps to lower the exhaust just a bit too. Not so much you loose the cool rumble of a V8, but enough to make it more tolerable on the DD IMHO.

    Another option you might consider if you are willing to do the cutting, fitting, etc. is a universal kit from Magnaflow, Flowmaster, Borla, or others. The Magnaflow and Borla are Stainless Steel and not cheap, but . . .
    The Flowmaster is aluminized steel, so it's a bit cheaper.

    The last option you might consider although it's a bit unorthodox is using a 5.0 kit for your car, but only use one side. If you go with a 2.5" system it should work pretty well, but you will need to fabricate the connection from the muffler connection forward. If you keep your eyes open you might be able to find a good used kit local cheap enough to justify the purchase, then install the one side and then have a local exhaust shop fabricate the header/manifold to muffler section for you. Just a thought.

    Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
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  18. #43
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    All good info guys. Maybe I'll just pony-up (pun intended) the cash and have one of my local shops install a system AFTER the future exhaust manifold / header upgrade is installed.

    I think the cheap route for now is to remove my current cat and install flex-pipe. I'm really thinking the cat is either breaking down or just plain clogging up.

    So many choices, so little time (and cash). Maybe I'll just stick to the single 2" exhaust setup to keep things simple for now. A shop can make the pipe with mandrel bends, a good performance cat (as suggested), and a free-flowing muffler should help the little 2.3L exhale much better.

    Gotta hit the showers...time to get ready for work. Thanks again for the info guys. This place is awesome.
    Last edited by IDMooseMan; 08-19-2012 at 10:49 PM. Reason: sentence structure
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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  19. #44
    FEP Super Member webestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDMooseMan View Post
    All good info guys. Maybe I'll just pony-up (pun intended) the cash and have one of my local shops in a system AFTER the future exhaust manifold / header upgrade is installed.

    I think the cheap route for now is to remove my current cat and install flex-pipe. I'm really thinking the cat is either breaking down or just plain clogging up.

    So many choices, so little time (and cash). Maybe I'll just stick to the single 2" exhaust setup to keep things simple for now. A shop can make the pipe with mandrel bends, a good performance cat (as suggested), and a free-flowing muffler should help the little 2.3L exhale much better.

    Gotta hit the showers...time to get ready for work. Thanks again for the info guys. This place is awesome.
    I was thinking of putting a cat back on and a cam with my 2bbl.....
    this is the cat I will go with..... MAGNAFLOW Part # 23363
    It is $85 bucks from Rockauto.

    Scotty
    1985 Fox Notch 4-banger Ranger tube header Eastwood Royal Blue
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  20. #45
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    I got the turbo version of the 2.3
    In '79 the pipes aft of the converter are 2 1/4.
    So you could go up to that if desired.

    Consider keeping the converter because of the two rods that provide solid support for the rest of the exhaust system.
    Took it off one time and ran a converter eliminator pipe.
    After all the pipe banging, the converter shell assy went back on for good.
    Last edited by gr79; 06-21-2012 at 01:33 AM.

  21. #46
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Hadn't thought about the support the cat adds to the system. That just makes me think keeping the cat is a much better idea.

    Scott - I'll take a look at the Magnaflow cat. The one shop I'm considering has several options of pipe size, cats, and mufflers. Having a complete, matched system from one location is a good idea in my eyes.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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  22. #47
    FEP Super Member webestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDMooseMan View Post
    Hadn't thought about the support the cat adds to the system. That just makes me think keeping the cat is a much better idea.

    Scott - I'll take a look at the Magnaflow cat. The one shop I'm considering has several options of pipe size, cats, and mufflers. Having a complete, matched system from one location is a good idea in my eyes.
    Craig....You can get the cat, muffler and stock tailpipe from Rockauto or Autozone. The only thing you need to have a shop make is the pipe from the cat to the muffler.
    Scotty

    Scotty
    1985 Fox Notch 4-banger Ranger tube header Eastwood Royal Blue
    1988 Fox LX 5.0 AOD Vert BBK 170mph speedo Candy Apple Red
    1999 Mustang Coupe V6 Auto Chrome Yellow -Daily Driver.
    Past Pony's.....
    68 Coupe Inline-6 3-Speed-Man. Primer
    78 II Hatch 302 3-Speed-Auto Sunroof Black
    81 4-Eye Coupe 4-Banger 4-Speed-Man. White

  23. #48
    FEP Senior Member quikstang2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDMooseMan View Post
    2.5L? You meant 2.3L, right? Or, did the Ranger have a 2.5L available? I'm not sure. If it did, is the 2.5L head a direct swap to my 2.3L? No modifications, just unbolt the 2.3L head and bolt on the 2.5L head?
    The ranger got bumped up to 2.5L in 1998-2000. There were a few "leftovers" in 2001 too. It's a C code in the 8th digit in the VIN. The Mazda B-2500 for those years is the same thing, obviously.
    I'm not too familiar with when the changes in block machining happened. Apparently the 2.5L blocks won't fit a distributor, and the head is dual plug. So there's that to work around. I was just tossing ideas around. Not sure what you have available to work with.
    2015 Jeep Wrangler Sport
    1984 Mustang convertible

  24. #49

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    That said, running a 2.5 block has its advantages, such as being set-up for distributorless ingition and having the factory cast aluminum oil pan. However the 2.5 and later 2.3s used the dual plug head, which are near useless for performance purposes. So a head swap to an older head o

    Later model 2.3s had the DIS and the cast oil pan well and if you want to play cheater, are a good starting point for building a 2.5 or even a 2.7 stroker motor.[/QUOTE]
    I think with a good stand alone, it could.

  25. #50
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Just checked rock auto
    79 Mustang, 2.3 n/a
    exhaust
    pipe
    Walker 43873
    (conv to muffler)
    intermediate pipe 21.79

    79-84 Mustang/Capri

    no 2.25" single pipe listed.
    Last edited by gr79; 06-22-2012 at 01:45 PM.

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