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  1. #226
    FEP Power Member Ethyl Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDuty455 View Post
    Bumping an old thread, but it suits my question.

    Out of curiosity, what camshaft would you recommend for a totally stock '79 engine ? Something that would give it a little more horsepower without losing too much on gas mileage. Getting something around 20hp over the stock engine for example.
    A better carburetor would be required as well I guess.

    The engine already has a header and no cat (original Belgium model) so it would be a good base to help the engine breath a little more since there's no restriction past the head. It has a 3.08 rear end ratio so in between highway gears and fun.
    If I can find engine specs and flow numbers I will work on something for you over the next week or so. Mustang engine yes?
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  2. #227

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    Yes '79 Mustang, all stock with the 4 speed tranny.

    I'll have a look at the carburetor tomorrow because I'm not entirely sure it's the same as the US models.

  3. #228
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    I'd like to see those numbers, too. I am looking at the Crane Cams 260H and 268H versions. Not sure which would be better, but they're operating ranges are within 300 RPMs of each other.

    I don't remember if yours has the Motorcraft/Holley 5200 2-bbl carburetor or not. Mine does, and I'm told that it can be worked to flow some quite impressive numbers. A milder, or even stock, rebuild can gain some good horsepower/torque numbers while maintaining good MPGs, too. Having the intake and exhaust sides of the head worked over will give you the most gains.

    Thanks for looking through my thread.

    Edit:
    I went back and looked at the pictures in your thread. I'm guessing, by the air cleaner housing, that you have the same 2-bbl (5200) carburetor I have. That should be plenty of carburetor for you to use. A 20-HP increase will not need much carburetor work to keep your MPGs reasonable.
    Last edited by IDMooseMan; 07-03-2016 at 05:36 PM. Reason: 260H, not 206H
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
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  4. #229

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    I had a good look at the carb yesterday, it's a Motorcraft 5200 as well. I will rebuild it because I'm sure it's the reason the car doesn't run well, the accelerator pump and the floats must be bad.

    What do you mean by that : "Having the intake and exhaust sides of the head will give you the most gains." ?

  5. #230
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Sorry about that. I went back and fixed it.

    "Having the intake and exhaust sides of the head worked over will give you the most gains." This is what it should have read. I have cognitive issues that make me forget to write words in sentences, even though I'm saying the words out-loud as I type. It's very annoying to me, because I think I wrote what I wanted to say, but several words in the sentence are usually missing.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
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  6. #231
    FEP Power Member Ethyl Cat's Avatar
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    IDMooseMan is right. You can cam it all you want, but there is not a magic stick out there that will give you a 23% increase in power (20hp on a 88hp engine). I have tried it a bunch of different ways but I feel that pulling the head to gain compression and airflow is the best way to gain HP, next would be intake and carb. Then you are ready to upgrade the cam.

    The head is done at .400" lift and only flows 149cfm without a 2 bbl carb and mediocre intake on it. Piston demand at 4300rpm is 149cfm. This is why aftermarket cams get out to 230 degrees @ .050" just to rev to 5200 rpm (cranes reference). There is just not enough flow. Valve sizes seem to be big enough.

    A reference would be if you had a 230 degree cam on a 4.6 2v (2x the size of your engine) it would be rated to 6200rpm
    The same 230 degree would get you to 6600-6800 on a 4v

    More airflow would do the same for your engine and require less cam in the end. More power, less uncivilized.

    That is my 2 cents for this one.

    Steve
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  7. #232

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    Allright, so the head really is the culprit. Would a more modern 2.3L head do a better job or aftermarket is the only way to go ? According to my research, these early heads use large oval exhaust holes, so the the header should be compatible with D shaped exhaust holes right ?

  8. #233

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    I run the crane cam 194621 and I have no complaints about it, ran it n/a, ran it on nitrous and running it now on my turbo motor. Ive always ran the holley 5200 on my 80 capri and it has worked fine with the right jets in it. As for the head part of it I had my stock 80 head port matched on both the exhaust and intake side which was called the 80/20, the stock intake port matched and the runners all machined smoother and a ten thousand mill. I also had a 3 angle valve job done while it was there. Ive put long tubes on it with no cats or mufflers straight piped. No air pump, egr delete, new ignition system, electric fuel pump, aluminum driveshaft and 3.73 gears and the gears helped the car more than anything. N/A I ran a mid to high 17 second quarter mile before I switched to nitrous, than after getting tired of filling nitrous switched to turbo which was the best decision I have made for the car. Car has rear seat delete no spare tire etc, running trim etc but took out sounds material etc when it was painted so it is fairly light also. N/A i ran a 185 air jet in the pri and a 160 in the sec than for main jets I ran a 1.25mm and a 1.30mm which were actually a 207cc and 223cc. depending on your air fuel though you could run more jet I also was able to run 1.30mm and 1.40mm with those same air jets and the car ran fine just more rich. I run a 1.40mm and 1.65 mm with my turbo motor now. I did not have a wide band until I ran my turbo motor so before I could not read my air fuel ratio, you could possibly run more jets n/a but I am not sure how much more, my car was always on the rich side though a guy who makes carbs and rebuilds them told me to leave the stock air jets alone and go to a 1.60mm pri and a 1.90mm sec and the car was so rich it would not idle, thats even to much jet for my turbo motor on 14 psi. If your going to put new jets in maybe this will give you a starting point, i suggest a wide band though so you can see how the car acts WOT etc and than you can fine tune from there but it is possible to get it running good without one just would of saved me from trying a bunch of combos and ripping the carb open over and over.
    80 Capri built 5.0 single turbo manual trans
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  9. #234
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDuty455 View Post
    Allright, so the head really is the culprit. Would a more modern 2.3L head do a better job or aftermarket is the only way to go ? According to my research, these early heads use large oval exhaust holes, so the the header should be compatible with D shaped exhaust holes right ?
    I'm still learning the 2.3 but some say the early head is preferable to the later D port head. Not a big deal either way but no reason to swap to the D port head.

    A professional porting and performance valve job should do the trick.

  10. #235
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    PS - Also give them the intake and exhaust manifolds to port.

  11. #236
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    All great advice. So, you'll want to have a performance valve job and professional porting work done, especially on the exhaust side. Having the intake and exhaust manifolds port-matched is a good idea, too.

    David Vizard gave some fantastic advice for squeezing extra horsepower from the 1.3-L, 1.6-L, and 2.0-L engines in his "How to Modify Ford S.O.H.C. Engines" book. I have it in PDF and it is quite large at approximately 40-45 MB. If you can find it, I highly recommend reading some of the chapters. Practically everything he did on the 2.0-L can be done to the 2.3-L with results as good as, or better than, he achieved.

    If you want to start your own thread, let me know where it is and I'll subscribe to it so I can follow along with what you're doing. If you want to ask your questions in here, that's fine with me, too. It would be nice to compare notes on what you're doing and the results you're seeing.

    I'm hoping to start working on my Ghia sometime later this year. I know, I know. I've been saying that for a few years now, but I gotta keep the faith.

    Edit:
    I did a quick search on Vizard's book title and found this:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/26804743/H...-Vizard#scribd

    and an offering from Amazon UK:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Modify-F.../dp/0863430856

    and others:

    http://www.motorbookworld.com.au/how...-cc-pinto.html

    http://www.biblio.com/book/how-modif...rd/d/665826396

    If you have access to Google Books, you can look for the title there, too:

    https://books.google.co.za/books/abo...d=YjBLAAAACAAJ

    And of course, this is my search results, page 1. I probably should have posted this link to make it easy on myself:

    https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?...&hsimp=yhs-002

    Hope that helps you a bit.
    Last edited by IDMooseMan; 01-23-2016 at 03:25 AM.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
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  12. #237

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    Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm not sure I'll ever upgrade my cars, I'll how they feel as is on the road first. But it's good to know how I could plan an power increase.

  13. #238
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    My understanding, and from what I've read in Vizard's book, is even a mild porting on the intake and exhaust sides of the head will reap quite an improvement over stock. Add the exhaust header and a good camshaft and you'll see an extra 20-HP easily. Once these items are done, tinkering with the ignition timing to dial in the setup should be fun.

    I'm considering having this done with my Vaquero Ghia Notchback just to get her back in driving condition. I need to start up another conversation with the engine shop.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
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  14. #239
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    I did a quick ISBN search and that book is also available on Amazon.com (US)

    The NOS copies are pricey ($135) but used copies are $53

    IS it worth $53? I'll spend for good knowledge.

  15. #240
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaceFever79 View Post
    ...IS it worth $53? I'll spend for good knowledge.
    For your purposes, I would say, "Yes." You're probably more familiar with this information and theory than most folks, and everything Vizard did with the 2.0-L engines can be translated to the 2.3-L engine with even better results.

    My free-download version does not contain the front or back covers, and some other pages, but I do have 171 pages of information on what he did with 2.0-L engines back in the day.

    I attached the "Title" and "Contents" pages so you can see if it might be worth purchasing. This is the book where I found out about superchargers for these engines. I would really, really like to find one of those to play with on a spare engine.

    1_PDFsam_How to Modify Ford SOHC Engines DAVID VIZARD.pdf
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
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  16. #241
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Thought I'd bring this back to the top as a reminder to myself.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
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  17. #242
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    I just dug out an Offy 4v intake and a Holley 450 from my parts stash. I was saving them for a naturally aspirated 1979 2.3 coupe project that never seemed to happen. I should probably pass em along.

  18. #243
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    I have an Offenhauser Dual Port 360 intake that I got from Tim (Andfab99) a while back. Is the Holley 450 a bit much for a street-driven 2.3L? Which intake do you have? Or, should I be asking what you want for the pair, plus shipping?
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
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  19. #244

    Default 150 HP naturally asperated 2.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by IDMooseMan View Post
    What mods would I have to do to reach 150 HP? Is this motor capable of handling that HP level? Stock is 88 HP, right? Can I reach higher HP levels? Is 150 HP too much to expect from a N/A 2.3L engine? I have no plans on adding a turbo. Is there a supercharger available for this engine? Ooooh, that would be cool.

    My little 4-banger has potential, but I want to keep it streetable, too. This car is my DD.

    Just trying to gather info for now and want to start dialog for a future project.
    I am putting a 2.3 in a 67 Sunbeam Alpine with an A4LD overdrive automatic. Remember that 88 HP is with a choked-down OEM motor and one barrel. I have an Esslinger 2-barrel intake, Autolite 2100 carb, mild cam, hotter coil, better wires and plugs, a modified dizzy, a tube header into a 2" exhaust feeding a shorty straight-thru muffler. TORQUE is what you want on the street, not necessarily HP. The HP guys are right about 150 HP with a carb...you will probably need to do a lot of internal work, but the stock 2.3 is strong. The Turbo has the same rods and crank but pistons are different. Upping compression will get you close with my mods but use 89 octane at least, preferrably 92, and keep the advance below 38 degrees. I have 3.89 gears with 25.5" tall tires and a .75 overdrive that puts the motor in the Torque sweet-spot at 75 MPH. I too build daily drivers.

  20. #245

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    What's the best distributor setup to get when doing a carb conversion on a 87 mustang 2.3 an what all will I need ignition wise to make this thang run any help would be appreciated

  21. #246

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    I went with a Duraspark II distributor (1975-1982 2.3L engines) and MSD box initially. I found the MSD's spark to be a bit hot for my factory engine, so I did the GM HEI conversion and it's worked great thus far. Wiring is simple and easily found with a Google search.
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  22. #247

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    This is bound to cause some argument, but I went back to points on my 85 2.3. NO COMPUTERS needed, simple, and a PerTronix can be used. Also, copper wires can be used which have virtually zero spark resistance (can't use with computers). Points by design have a much longer spark than electronics, even with multiple sparks (MSD), giving a better chance to ignite the mixture. MSD helps modern ignitions but still is not as good below 5,000 RPM. Please understand electronics ignitions were made to work with computers timing the fuel-air mixture spark with the Fuel-Injection shot into the chamber. Points don't allow that. High revving engines need hot sparks when above street RPM's of about 5,000 where points start to bounce. How often will you go there with your 2.3 is a question you need to answer. If often, get the best computer controlled system you can afford. If like me you plan to drive it as a street car, points or PerTronix work great. I am ASE certified in engines and my degree is in electronics...though from the days shortly after Marconi. Just because a system is best for FI or a blower or Turbo, or whatever, does not mean it is best for your purpose. I drove a 1940 Ford coupe with 289 running points for 12 years WITH ZERO IGNITION PROBLEMS, and it would run well past the century mark. Today's engines must turn over several times for the computer to time everything so a few turns are almost always heard when starting. Find an old points car and turn it on. My 40 started before I got my hand off the key. You must understand, keeping it tuned is a must, but 5,000 miles is across the US and back between tuning. Just an Old Mans suggestion from 50 years building motors, street rods, customs, motorcycles, and boats.

  23. #248
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    I am happy to see this thread still generating conversation.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
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  24. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDMooseMan View Post
    I am happy to see this thread still generating conversation.
    What's up with you these days Craig? Hope you are on the mend, your back is better and are thinking about getting your car on the road for some enjoyment soon!

  25. #250
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Thank you for the concern, Darran.

    Unfortunately, things have not gone in my favor. My back has deteriorated to the point where I wear a back brace and use a walker for any distance greater than a trip to the mailbox. I have other issues now, as well. I did finish my education; earned a degree in Health Sciences Studies with an emphasis on Health Informatics and Information Management at Boise State University (graduated in 2017). Currently in the final appeal process of my Social Security Disability claim. No idea when that will conclude.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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