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  1. #1
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Default 2.3L Engine Oil Leak

    I've developed a MASSIVE engine oil leak and I can't determine where the leak is coming from. The leak seems to be isolated to the left-side of the engine. There's enough oil leaking that is blows back under the driver-side chassis / floorpan area.

    I've already replaced the valve cover gasket so that leak is fixed. I have a massive oil puddle under my car now.

    She's had an oil leak since I got her back in Dec 2011, and I could tell the VC was leaking. This leak is really getting bad. It's almost like I have an "automatic oil changer" installed. I'd laugh, but I'm spending so much on oil that I probably could've gotten my Ranger header by now.

    She's my DD, so I can't afford to pull the engine for a rebuild. I don't have the space to it, so it would have to go to the shop. Not sure I can afford that at the moment, but then again, I don't want to keep pouring in two quarts of oil every 1.5 - 2 weeks.

    I'm thinking oil pan gasket or rear main seal. Can those be replaced without pulling the engine? Tranny's gotta come out to replace the rear main seal, IIRC. Any special tools I need? Is the rear main seal a two-piece seal? Do I need to drop the crankshaft?

    I have a feeling I need to take a week's vacation so I can get this done somehow.
    Last edited by IDMooseMan; 06-10-2014 at 12:04 AM.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
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  2. #2

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    Did you check the oil pressure sending unit yet? They seem to leak often.
    1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Now that I had NOT considered. I'll take a look at that. There's so much gunk on the left side of the engine, it's difficult to determine what's a "fresh" leak and what's leftover built-up gunk.

    Time to buy four more cans of degreaser and buy a new spray nozzle for the garden hose.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
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  4. #4
    FEP Super Member webestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDMooseMan View Post
    Now that I had NOT considered. I'll take a look at that. There's so much gunk on the left side of the engine, it's difficult to determine what's a "fresh" leak and what's leftover built-up gunk.

    Time to buy four more cans of degreaser and buy a new spray nozzle for the garden hose.
    I use a very thick considerate of Tide and very warm water and a brush, works great. Cleaning the entire area is the only way to find a leak.

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  5. #5

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    Also what side is the oil filter on? Not sure if it just bolts to the block or has an insert it screws into thy attaches to the block but I have seen leaks where the oil filter housing/adapter whatever you ant to call it attaches.
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  6. #6
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    I had a sender leak like that, thought it was the VC gasket, but no. Check that sender out.
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  7. #7

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    Wouldn't hurt to check out the dispstick tube. I have seen one of those cracked before that spewed pretty good. It also has an o ring seal that could be damamged /missing. Cheap and easy fix too.
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  8. #8
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    Default Leak

    If you are leaking that much oil, look for the clean spot in the middle of the dirty/leaky area. The constant flow will keep it cleaner than the surrounding area. Rear main seals are common problems, yes 2 piece design, replace in car? I doubt it. The hardest part is getting the oil pan off. Turbo cars can have addition leaks.
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  9. #9
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Default

    Other ideas from members in a different thread. I wanted to keep them all here for easier reference:

    1slow46:
    "Just and idea. but did u change oil recently...maybe the old gasket stuck to block and u didnt notice it..."

    richstang:
    "Just an idea, check the plug for the oil sender in the pan. I had a simular problem a few years back where it popped out loose enough to spread acorss the underside floorpans of the car like you mention. Hopefully it's that simple for you."

    Thanks for the input guys, keep 'em coming if there's more to check. My coworker is on vacation this week, so I can't afford to dig into her for fear of not being able to get to work. We're a small team. When one person is on vacation, we lose 33.33% of our workforce, not counting our Supervisor. Flu season is "interesting" to say the least.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
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  10. #10

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    Possible oil leak areas on the driver's side:

    1. Head gasket.
    2. Oil pressure sending unit.
    3. Valve cover gasket (Sounds like you already fixed this one).
    4. PCV oil separator, hoses, or valve.
    5. Oil filter.
    6. Distributor (Where it enters the block).
    7. Fuel pump.
    8. Front crankshaft seal.
    9. Rear crankshaft seal.
    10. Oil pan gasket or cracked oil pan (It happens!).
    11. Oil level dipstick tube.
    12. Cracked engine block or head (Rarely an issue).
    86 Mercury Capri GS 2.3L
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  11. #11
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Default

    After replacing the burned out bulbs in my instrument cluster earlier this weekend, the right-turn bulb is not working again. The right-turn signal lights are fine, it's just the right-turn bulb in the cluster. I think that might be a problem.

    The oil leak is predominantly on the driver-side of the engine. I'll concentrate on that side first. It's also the dirtiest.

    When I shutoff the engine after coming home from work, I can hear some gurgling, like water in a creek. I'm afraid to ask, but that sounds like a head-gasket issue, doesn't it?

    If it is, can the head be removed from the engine as an assembly without removing the cam and valvetrain?

    I haven't run a compression test, but it's on my "To-Do" list. I'm thinking I need to bring this item up to the top of my list.
    Last edited by IDMooseMan; 05-08-2012 at 04:08 AM.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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  12. #12

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    That's just the oil draining back down into the oil pan. Mine does it too.
    86 Mercury Capri GS 2.3L
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  13. #13
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Thanks, Ethan. That makes me feel a lot better. Thought I might have another problem developing.

    So...can the head be removed from the engine as an assembly without removing the cam and valvetrain?
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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  14. #14

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    Yep. To remove the cylinder head:

    1. Remove valve cover.
    2. Drain cooling system.
    3. Remove intake (You can even leave the carburetor attached! On some models, you must remove the alternator and alternator bracket as well.)
    4. Remove Exhaust manifold bolts.
    5. Remove timing belt (Remove drive belts and water pump pulley so cover comes off).
    6. Remove cylinder head bolts and remove cylinder head.

    The camshaft and complete valvetrain are contained in the head. Be careful though, it is HEAVY since it is all cast iron and steel!
    86 Mercury Capri GS 2.3L
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  15. #15
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Thanks again, Ethan. Any idea what that head assembly weighs? I have back-hardware installed (and other issues). Maybe I need an extra pair or two of hands before I attempt this.

    Forgot to mention...reps sent.
    Last edited by IDMooseMan; 05-08-2012 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Reps sent
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by IDMooseMan View Post
    Thanks again, Ethan. Any idea what that head assembly weighs? I have back-hardware installed (and other issues). Maybe I need an extra pair or two of hands before I attempt this.

    Forgot to mention...reps sent.
    Hi Craig,

    What type of hardware? I am 6 weeks out from l4/l5 fusion. The Doc put cages in the front and rods in the back. Anterior and posterior incisions were done. Can't wait to be back to doing what I enjoy doing.

    I had a 1980 Capri that I changed out the pan gasket and to rear main with the engine still in the compartment. It's was 25 years ago though and I was much more limber to reach around then.
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  17. #17
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Default

    My opinions, having Been There Done That. Ask in manner your comfortable with, and someone will help out.

    Here was my malestrom

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gysEPJ9EHMA

    Here's what I ended up with after doing four tasks with my trusty assistant

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uIGeY2xZos

    In your situation, its a great idea to have another local who is younger and more nimble to help out, that's the first requirement. Friends, Family and Fools is the disrepectfull term my Upstart business incubator mentor told me back last year. He said that co-elitions of the willing are how work is done. In my case, I employed my son for three months, got a Government grant for taking him off the unemployment que, and we got a whole lot of stuff done together. I wasn't out of pocket by any more than 280 US dollars at the end of those 3 months. I have a large amouht of military friends, I didn't draw on them because I was a bit precious and felt my son would understand me fluffing about more than a cut and thrust multi faceted military operation.

    Ash and I ended up doing four things together. But you need help if you have a sore back and espeically if you are forced to take meds. I work with people who are a bit older than most, Returned Service Veterans, and their knowledge is huge, and if you were next door, I'd be talking to a Vets Association, and ask for the resources to help you out for a few days. its not all about money, ya know, its about figuring out ways to do jobs for our protectors.

    I care for people who have been in military service, and the pay back always has to be that these guys get free labour for a few stories and some respectfull assistance. The pay back to non military types like me is that one day I'll be old, and there is no certainty I won't have messed up my back or won't be on meds too. Its not about paying it forward, its about deciding to invest is social interaction for the benifit of society.

    Most vets aren't into this as a request, its just how it is, but guys like you have become lynch pins in projects others copy, and just a little hop up work photo'ed in its humbleness is the fan needed to have people really dig hard into the 2.3 Limas performance heritage. Its one the easiest of engines to enliven!

    Second, set your productiviites down a little, and then run it as an internet project.

    I did this when I rebuilt my Mustang after
    1. a blown head gasket,
    2. blown radiator, and during set up of my road roughness gear.
    3. We also got buck codes,
    4. and a driver for me when I was too tired to do my Government and contracting work which involved 893 miles highway driving per month.

    This 43 year old got looked after by my 20 year old son, and it was awesome. I'd do it again tommorrow!

  18. #18
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 79FOX302 View Post
    Hi Craig,

    What type of hardware? I am 6 weeks out from l4/l5 fusion. The Doc put cages in the front and rods in the back. Anterior and posterior incisions were done. Can't wait to be back to doing what I enjoy doing.

    I had a 1980 Capri that I changed out the pan gasket and to rear main with the engine still in the compartment. It's was 25 years ago though and I was much more limber to reach around then.
    Titanium, I think. I asked my surgeon for, he gave me, a wallet card to carry stating I had back hardware installed in case I set off any of the airport metal detectors. I've lost the card , but I've never set off a metal detector anywhere, but it was nice having the card, just in case. You might want to ask your surgeon for one as well.

    If you can do any physical therapy to help strengthen your back and abdomen, do it. My surgeon was amazed my recovery didn't take as long as he expected. I spent a week in the hospital after the surgery, but went home for the rest of the recovery period. The doctor still kept restrictions on me, but you know how doctor's can be.

    I had L4-S1 posterior and anterior done with donor femur (Thank You for being a donor, whoever you were) replacing my dried up disk material. My hips were scraped for bone material to fuse the pedicles (pointy part of the spinal disk) in additional to the rods, screws, whatever else he put in at the time.

    By the time all this was done, I was nearly 3/4" taller. Had a h3ll of a time with pain management due to the near sheaths had shrunk over time. The surgery stretched them back close to their original length.

    For several weeks, just sitting down on the toilet made me cry due to the pain bending my back while sitting down. Using a walker helped out immensely. Graduated to a cane. Now, I only use the cane when I go places that I expect to experience extended periods of sitting, standing or walking. I don't do running anymore, but my "Quality of Life" is MUCH better after the surgery.

    I wish you a speedy recovery. Feel free to PM me with questions, if you'd like.
    Last edited by IDMooseMan; 01-30-2013 at 01:48 AM.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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  19. #19
    FEP Senior Member 4EYED85's Avatar
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    Hows the progress, did you figure it out?

  20. #20
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    I haven't had a chance to dig into her, yet. Coworker on vacation...see Post #9. Gonna have to wait until the weekend. I'll keep topping her off as needed. Time to get ready for work. Y'all have a good one.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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  21. #21

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    I'd say a good 80lbs. I took mine off and put it back on by myself, but it was quite difficult. Not to mention, if you drop the head, you can destroy it, the head gasket, or the block! Make use of the little dowel pins that are sandwiched between the block and head when mounting the head gasket. It's a real life saver.
    86 Mercury Capri GS 2.3L
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  22. #22
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info and the tip about the dowels. Do the dowels come out of the block when you pull the head? Or will they stay put while I'm lifting the head?

    I bought a head gasket a few months ago thinking I needed to replace it, but then my torque wrench broke...well, the locking mechanism broke. I wound up snapping off a valve cover bolt head. I wasn't even torquing it down, just using it as a ratchet wrench. Had the twist handle set down somewhere below 5 ft. lbs. and it still snapped the bolt head right off.

    A torque wrench I can't trust is not something I'm gonna keep in my toolbox. It was a Craftsman. Unfortunately, no standard "Lifetime Warranty" on torque wrenches is what the salesman and manager said, so I politely thanked them and reminded them that the "Lifetime Warranty" was the only reason I commuted 25 miles, one way, to shop at that store.

    I guess it's time to starting looking at Snap-On and others. Sears has been a BIG disappointment since their bankruptcy. Well...I'm off-topic, but I started this thread, so I'm allowed. Rant over.
    Last edited by IDMooseMan; 05-12-2012 at 03:45 AM. Reason: Spelling
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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  23. #23

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    The dowels will either stay in the head or the block. They aren't much but little steel bushing looking things. But they are nice for aligning the head gasket.
    86 Mercury Capri GS 2.3L
    11 Ford Ranger XL 2.3L
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    19 Years of Foureyedpride.com

  24. #24
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the input and advice. I made a checklist of items to check for the phantom oil leak. The hunt begins later today when it's daylight and AFTER I've poured some coffee down my throat.

    Hopefully, cleaning the engine and hunting for the oil leak location won't take all weekend. I'll post up results when I have them.

    Might need my daughter's help (she wants to learn anyway) to do the compression test.
    Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
    1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
    USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
    To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
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  25. #25
    FEP Senior Member 4EYED85's Avatar
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    And the verdict is ?

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