Thank you. More studying. Yippee.
Thank you. More studying. Yippee.
Craig "IDMooseMan" Peters
1979 Mustang Ghia Notchback, 2.3L, Holley 5200, 4-spd, 3.08:1 7.5" diff, A/C, PS, PB, AM/FM/8-Track, Sunroof, Rear Defroster
USAF SSgt 63170 1983 - 1992; Co-Founder, Vice President, Omega Delta Sigma, ID-A 2/2015
To those that serve and have served, "Thank You", to those that haven't, "You're Welcome"
2.3L Horsepower Potential Thread
Buyer/Seller Experience Link
Build Thread
The Four-Eyed Game - 2018 Version
Perfect explanation, suggestions and direction! Look to the left of the bolt head - that is a clean , dry "flashing" hole. You lube the bolt with oil - but as Jimmy said "not so much to cause hydroloc issue and false torque specs".Originally Posted by Jimmy2.3Mustang
You can check your own engine easily enough, but both of the 2.3T blocks I have the head bolt threads are a blind hole, so no sealant required. The exhaust manifold bolts are another story, do a search.
Torque specs generally specify what lube is required if any. Since the lube can vary the stretch/tension it's important to use the right lube for the spec. I didn't see any lube specified, so I would interpret that to mean the specs are for clean dry threads. YMMV.
I chased my threads with a cheap metric bolt from the hardware store. I cut about 3 flutes in it with a cut off wheel to give the crud a place to go, and ran the bolt in and out of the threads a few times, cleaning the flutes as required. A tap theoretically can cut away metal, weakening threads, which is something you don't want to do. You just want any old oil, rust, etc removed. It also doesn't hurt to make sure there's no water/oil in the bottom of the bolt holes, since it could create a hydraulic issue and keep the bolts from tightening to spec. Carb cleaner and compressed air helps get the crud out of the holes...
My improvised thread chasing tool...
(I wound't have gotten the YMMV either ) !
Mark
P.S. So you have some Permatex to get your money back on ! Unless you remover the CAM BOLT then you need something !
Last edited by TheSVOTrust-MarkHaas; 03-29-2012 at 07:21 PM.
ok so after I clean the bolt holes out and make sure the threads are clean etc..... I put the new head bolts in with just a tiny bit of oil for lube. No permatex needed. Is that correct?
Here's an update so far, managed to get the head surface pretty clean, got a little work left. And started to clean the block surface.... had to quit from making to much noise, don't need the neighbors calling the cops...... again.. lol
need to check the head and block surface for any warpage with straight edge and feeler gauge. if there not straight, then your just wasting time putting it back together.
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was in 3rd gear, right foot to the floor and Cones where flying!
1)who cares if you don't like my functional illiterate
2)if i write like a 2nd grader, isn't that still better than texting?
3)yes ,i'm a French-fry short of a happy meal.
4)Statistically speaking, six out of seven dwarfs aren't Happy
Just a heads up, I think arp head studs are a waste of time, I've never run them and have run 25 psi at times and no head gasket yet, as a matter of fact I just redid my motor cause a piston cracked and the head gasket was in great shape. Also good luck with the gasket, I did my first one on my car when I was 16, but then again I love cars I'm only 22 and I'm a mechanic for a living, but I'll tell you this much when you do the first one all by yourself it's a great feeling.
So, you verified that non of the cam lobes have gone flat, right?
If it was just one cylinder with no compression, I might be inclined to think hole in piston.
Could be a dropped valve seat keeping valve(s) open? Crack in head?
1983 Mexican Mustang 5.0/4-spd
1982 Capri RS 5.0 H.O.
Or that GINORMOUS hole in the head gasket between the 2 non-compression cylinders.
85 SVO
94 GT CMC#71
65 Fastback
lol!
yeah the head gasket was non existent between #3 and #4! Also looks as it wanted to blow between #1 and #2 as well.
you can see in the pic, towards the back of the head, the exhaust manifold gasket actually folded over the edge of the head, and got squeezed between the block and head gasket. That couldn't have helped things either.
I trimmed the gasket that was over hanging from the ex manifold flush with the bottom of the head so it won't get in the way again!
I know I should have the head checked, and get everything surfaced etc... etc.... but I'm gonna go the cheap route and just clean it as best as I can and put it back together. This car was easy enough to work on, I can always go crazy with it next time.
I can't wait to get back to the clean up! Had to quit last night making to much noise with the air compressor going etc....
Last edited by NFS03Cobra; 03-30-2012 at 08:39 AM.
Well just about finished cleaning the head and block surfaces as best I could.
Gonna make sure the threads and bolt holes are clean next as well as inside the cylinders etc.....
I wish I had someone here to help me get this head back on! It's heavy and I don't want to mangle the gasket doing it by myself!
Still curious on this question:
"ok so after I clean the bolt holes out and make sure the threads are clean etc..... I put the new head bolts in with just a tiny bit of oil for lube. No permatex needed. Is that correct?"
Just a little oil on the threads and good to go?
I swear it would almost be easier to use a engine hoist to put that head back on by yourself. I had to call a buddy over as i didn;t have a lift. Not only are they heavy being in the center of the engine bay makes you lean way out to set it on. Good luck man.
Mike J.
80 Capri RS turbo(svo in capri clothing)
86 SVO
"Doh, Why do my actions have consequences?"
No Peramatex required on the head bolts. Also, make sure you have the 2 dowels on the block to keep the gasket in place when you drop the head down.
1979 Indy Pace Car Mustang 302 / 5spd
1982 Mustang GT T-Top 302 / 4spd
1986 SVO Mustang - 1C
you know I sold my damn cherry picker just the other week cause I'm moving soon and thought "I'll never need that anytime soon"
But I can stand in my engine bay between the radiator and the engine so that helps a little, I just want a second pair of hands to get it on nice and straight the first time.
As for the dowels I believe they are stuck in the bottom of the head. Are they saposta be on the block side when setting the head back on?
edit: ok one dowel came out the other is stuck. I'm working on it now and then running over to the parts store to hopefully get 2 new ones. with the dowels in the block holding the gasket in place this will make things much easier.
i'm an idiot!
Last edited by NFS03Cobra; 03-30-2012 at 01:21 PM.
Well, since you are likely going to put the HG on the block and then set the head down onto it, I would put the dowels in the block. This way you know the HG isn't going to move.
Can't wait to see the video of it running....
1979 Indy Pace Car Mustang 302 / 5spd
1982 Mustang GT T-Top 302 / 4spd
1986 SVO Mustang - 1C
The cylinder head dowels are available, Felpro ES74011, it's a package of 4. I reinstalled the head with the engine out of the car, but I'm sure the reverse of my removal process would have worked fine... I put a folded up bath towel on the fender, climbed in the engine bay and lifted the head off the block and onto the fender. Then I was able to climb back out, and lift the head off the fender.
The catch is my fenders look like ****, and the paint is shot. But then a bath towel doubled over about 4-5 times is about an inch thick, not much risk of scratching the fender.
I wouldn't worry too much about the gasket moving around without dowels in the block. All of mine stay in the heads. Set the gasket in place and just be careful to set the head straight down onto it. If it's not aligned right, lift and reposition.
If you do replace the dowels, make sure there's enough depth in both the head/block pockets that they won't bottom out before the head is snugged back down. Chances are the block and head haven't been shaved enough to create a problem, but it never hurts to be cautious.
1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project
I am furious at the moment.
I can't believe that ford, advanced, autozone, napa....
no one carries dowel pins.
Ford couldn't even give me a part number.
And the best advance could do was order them, and they may be here by april 5th.
Come one WTF! How is it these stores can stock plastic chrome stickers and junk for hondas, but when it comes to actual parts they never have certain items.
I'm 100% ready to put this thing back together right now, and now I'm not gonna be able to get a new dowel pin. One is good, the other one is all mangled up and I can't get it out of the head yet.
I planned on having this car running this weekend. I can't believe shops can stay in business with the incompetence of the parts industry.
The best part is, no one gives a ****, they all look at me like I'm a moron for asking for a dowel pin. And the guys at napa told me to go to a junk yard and pull a head to get one.
this is ridiculous- so mad right now
Why not just pull the dowels out of the head?
1979 Indy Pace Car Mustang 302 / 5spd
1982 Mustang GT T-Top 302 / 4spd
1986 SVO Mustang - 1C
I got mine from Rock Auto... I have an Advance Auto distribution center in town, but they gave me blank stares at the store. They couldn't find them in the computer either... Somewhere I read you can use steel spacers from the hardware store, and cut them to length. The Felpro dowels measure 11/16th's x 3/4" if you want to go that route.
1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project
I did, well one came out no problem. The other one is stuck in there, I can't get it out and it's all mangled to sh*t now, it's unusable once I get it out.
I'm just disappointed and disgusted that something this little will hold me up for days. I am completely clueless as to how no one stocks, carries, or sells dowel pins. And the only options are to order online and wait a ridiculous time for them to show. Even the ford dealer like I said couldn't give me a part number and was clueless.
"wow i can't even remember the last time we sold some of those, it's not even in the system" ?????
The 2.3 was so widely used in so many platforms across so many years, I would naturally think others would be in need of dowel pins while doing a head job?
Just my luck. Sorry for everyone reading this, just venting like a little kid. I could kill someone right now. I hate when I have my mind set on something, and then some as insignificant as this will hold me up a week.
If you ordered from Rock Auto, you'd have them by Wednesday... Probably faster if you paid for express shipping. Or take the Felpro number I posted earlier and make some phone calls. Or cut down some generic steel spacers from the hardware store. You might get lucky and find a local machine shop with a few. Let's be realistic, these are old cars, and you're looking for a part that's not a standard maintenance item. Most people will never replace a dowel pin in a car's lifetime. It's a little late now, but if you'd left the dowels alone it wouldn't matter that no one has them, because you wouldn't have to replace one... It's no big deal, 5 days isn't the end of the world. FWIW.
1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project
Now you know why I just said "f" it and bought a box of 50 last time.
The last vehicle that had this engine was maybe the 2000 Ranger I believe. That was 12 years ago. Why would they stock something they might move 1 of a year for a profit of probably .50?
I doubt they have dowel pins for a 2000 Honda either.
You seem extremely proficient and knowledgeable. Do you maybe know anyone that has a speed or machine shop with piles of junk heads and parts laying around? Just a thought. Maybe Craigslist for someone selling a junk 2.3 or head?
Liberty once lost is lost forever.
John Adams
July 7, 1775
Ohh I don't know, maybe some of us think that since the same alignment dowel was used for 27 years on the 2.3/2.5 engie family, and that it wasn't the only engine to use that dowel (I believe the 3.8 used it also, plus more I don't know about I'm sure), and that it's not really a reusable part most of the time because they ALWAYS stick and you have to mangle them to remove them, that possibly someone should stock them. Just a thought.
Most people don't rebuild an engine on a weekend whim. They actually plan things out and make sure they have what they need before they start. Overhauling an engine is not something to do in a hurry. You will regret it. They are also prepared for surprises. They don't expect to pull the engine and overhaul it between a Friday and Monday.
They CAN get it, they just don't have it on the shelf, nor should they. I have owned 10 Mustangs and rebuilt probably 6 engines and have yet to need one.
Just a thought.
Liberty once lost is lost forever.
John Adams
July 7, 1775
By that logic, they should just have one employee in a booth that takes your order and you come back in two days to pick it up.
Just a thought.
Come on now... Let's be fair to the McAuto-Parts industry. They keep the doors open by selling oil change gear, tune up parts, shocks/struts, brake pads, belts and hoses. They probably make far more in a year off Yosemite Sam mudflaps and Betty Boop floor mats than they do on all 2.3L Ford related parts combined. When I was working the counter, the busy days were the first day of snow or heavy rain when I'd sell and install 50 pairs of wiper blades in an afternoon. The people behind the counters don't know anything, because most people buying from them don't know anything either. As an enthusiast, it's up to us to look up the parts we need and help educate the person behind the counter. It sucks, but it's 2012 and the majority don't maintain their cars themselves anymore.
1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project
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