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  1. #26
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    Seeing you don't have a timing cover - I wonder if you were just off on your cam timing?

    RIGHT NOW the cam isn't where it would be for TDC on the crank. You may want to recheck the compression reading while you can see the valve timing BEFORE removing head ! Either do that or get the crank to TDC before the intake valve opens so you can can confirm distributor placement/wire order.

    Mark
    P.S. You know the other "worth wild" tool would have been to use one of the new mini cameras http://bit.ly/GYSKfl it allows you to see inside the cyl , valve cover or up into oil pan through drain. SORRY I DIDN"T POST THIS - you moved pretty fast it

  2. #27

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    Well with the plugs in, turning the motor over by hand with a ratchet- you can feel that 2 cylinders have compression, and the other 2 turn over quite easy. Using the gauge, both #1 and #2 were 148\150 psi- i jumped the solenoid to turn the motor over when checking compression with the gauge.

    Strange thing is #3 & #4 don't have any compression, even replaced the o-rings on the tester to make sure I had a good seal and did it over and over.

    Now when I put the air hose into #3, I rotate the crank by hand, I can get air out the tail pipe, air out the intake, and air out the valve cover. To my knowledge air should only come out the exhaust or the intake. The only other way is past the rings... ?

    Now that the valve cover is off I'm gonna try that again to see where the air is coming from and do what you said double check distributor and plug wiring etc....

    I was hoping it would be something not to bad.....

  3. #28
    FEP Power Member RichV's Avatar
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    I think you're on the right track. Pull the head. I bet HG or rings, possibly piston carnage. The HG typically let's go at #1 from detonation, but anything is possible.
    85 SVO
    94 GT CMC#71
    65 Fastback

  4. #29

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    I was just doing some research and read that a blown head gasket could cause my no compression \ air out the valve cover \ oil fill hole.

    Keeping my fingers crossed, will have the head off by tomorrow night... can't wait to see!

  5. #30
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    It depends where the gasket lets go. Commonly it is in the area between cylinders is it is an over boost, detonation issue. (back of head for bad torque and water into oil)


    Use your torque wrench to check where everything is NOW on removal. Plan on NOT USING the fasteners - as you don't know the history, abuse taken or HOW they were installed.

    If the block and head check out for being flat and with no cracks in the head, you can invest in a Felpro and ARP's and be done with it ! You seem smart as to the mechanics of cars - I don't see a problem with this repair now and getting a proper baseline and "feel for the car". (You may find you need to put your money in upgraded injectors or wideband for monitoring - not heads and engines)

    Mark

  6. #31
    FEP Member jacquejp's Avatar
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    I agree with Mark's post. Once you ruled out the easy things that are common (timing belt, cam timing, cam followers), it is pointing to a head gasket blow in the area between cylinders. Been there with my old 84 GT Turbo. I think you are finding that these are pretty easy little engines to work on. I lot of your time, felpro head gasket, APRs...you will be "boosting" again soon.

  7. #32

    Default Hey

    When I bought my 84 Gt Turbo in 1991, the motor had 100,000 miles on it. Last two cylinders had NO COMPRESSION....after removing the cylinder head, the last two pistons were GONE!!!

    Anyway, timing will not account for no compression on the two last cylinders. Remove the head and take a look,.

    These motors are REALLY EASY to work on. Replaced the head gasket on mine in 4 hours complete and running again. That is when I was 21 and not very experienced.

    Again, call me if you need help

    Don

  8. #33

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    Thanks for the offer Don!

    As of the moment I had to take a break cause one exhaust manifold bolt is driving me nuts!

    I have the head just about ready to come off, I plan to pull the head with only the lower intake attached.

    The first pic is the one bolt that is holding me up. It's on the last cylinder and to the right. The tube is so tight up against the bolt that I can't get an allen key in there. I tried multiple flat heads, star keys, whatever I got but I can't get a grab on it to turn. Because of the exhaust tube any tool you use is at such a bad angle it just won't work.

    Short of getting out a hammer and big screw driver and denting the manifold next to this bolt to make room...... I didn't want to do that but I'm stumped!







  9. #34
    FEP Power Member RichV's Avatar
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    You need this style of allen. The head has a spherical end for multi-angle use.
    85 SVO
    94 GT CMC#71
    65 Fastback

  10. #35

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    Hey Rich where can I grab that tool? Is that something they carry at sears or home depot etc? Might be a stupid question but I don't remember seeing one of those.

    I finally got the head off a little while ago.

    I was excited to see the gasket was clearly damaged. The head bolt were all loose on the drivers side and tight as hell on the passenger side. I mean I broke at least 5 head bolts with little to no effort.

    You can clearly see the gasket blew out between #3 & #4. The metal ring material of the gasket is bunched up into a ball in the top of the camber on the head but didn't do any damage.

    The pistons and cylinder walls all look the same, nothing jumps out at me.

    The other issue was you can see where the exhaust manifold gasket was bent over and pressed into the head gasket. Someone must have installed the head with the manifold on there, and the gasket folded over. There's another issue with the head not making a good seal on the block.

    I found this little red rubber piece stuck inside of the lower intake. No idea where it came from? I don't think it was from me but who knows...?

    Here are some pics.

    Now I need to know what to buy as far as what gaskets, either tq to yield bolts or arp etc.....







  11. #36

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    The other thing I noticed was the intake side of the turbo seemed very oily...... I guess that means the seals in the turbo are going?

    Thanks everyone for your input and replies.

    Looking for what parts I need to slap this baby back together.

    Can anyone recommend a head gasket and arp bolt set? I'll be up all night now doing research to see what everyone else is running!

  12. #37

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    Harbor Freight carries extra long ball 3/8" drive ball drivers that would get the job done cheap.

    The rubber piece is probably a seal from a sensor/harness, look around and see if any match up.

    I'd clean up the mating surfaces and bolt it back together with another cheap Felpro gasket and call it a day. If you really want to you could buy replacement bolts (parts store bolts are TTY), or spend $100+ on a set of ARP studs.

    The oil can be from a faulty PCV system, or the turbo failing. A Ford PCV valve would be the cheapest thing to try first.
    1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project

  13. #38
    FEP Power Member RichV's Avatar
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    HF, Sears, possibly even Lowes/Home Depot.

    The head looks like your combustion chambers had something in there from the dithered looking surface. Or from severe detonation. Maybe make sure your #3 injector is good.

    Common issues for oil in the intake on a turbo car is also running with a clogged air filter. What sucks is that you need to get rid of that oil in your IC if it's bad enough. A little oil is normal, but drips are not.
    85 SVO
    94 GT CMC#71
    65 Fastback

  14. #39

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    Whats does everyone here think of the permatex copper gasket spray?

    I have a buddy that swears by the stuff. I did a head gasket job last year on a 302 and used the stuff. Still have the can left pretty much full.

    I'm gonna clean the head and block surfaces hopefully today.

    Then instead of going crazy and buying an expensive gasket and arp studs...... I think I'll just buy the cheapo felpro gasket and bolts from the local parts store.

    This thing was easy enough to get apart! I don't want it to become a money pit just yet- I'd like to get it running first!

  15. #40
    FEP Power Member ccurtin's Avatar
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    Hi,

    If you haven't already visited turboford.org, I suggest going over there and searching. There is TONS of information about the correct head gasket and what sealers (if any, hint to use depending on boost etc.

    Chris
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  16. #41
    FEP Power Member ccurtin's Avatar
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    Of course I just saw your thread over there
    I'm an FEP Paid Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

    1984 Capri Turbo RS - Alive after 7 years! Build Thread
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  17. #42

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    yeah I did go over to turboford-

    I seem to like this site better so far- but I been checking both for info etc.....


    Just got back from the parts store, got a cheapo head gasket, valve cover gasket etc, a new set of plugs etc.... waiting on the head bolts, they had to get them brought over from the warehouse.

    Hope to be in the garage soon to start cleaning up the head & block surfaces.

    So anxious to see what's gonna happen. This is my 2nd head gasket job, and the first one I'm doing solely by myself. I normally have help from more experienced friends.

  18. #43

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    LOL

    Glad to see you're thinking... You can go nuts with expensive parts, only to find out that there's a larger issue you didn't know about (Like a bad transmission, or a nasty rod knock). It's better to just get it running so you can see what needs attention.
    1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project

  19. #44

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    agreed!

    I have no clue about anything on this car. So just to get it running is a big step.

    I don't plan on running 18lbs like the previous owners, I'd keep it under 8lbs to be safe. Really just concerned to get it running and take it from there.

    I really like the car, and the turbo set-up seems cool- but I can't have this turn into a money pit. My other mustang is in the shop right now and I really shouldn't be spending cash on this sh*t!!!

  20. #45
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    Well I'm glad to see you thought through and left the manifold and got it off!
    (many ways to skin a cat) But a little heavier !

    REALLY REALLY wished you had ordered ARP studs ! (With the looks of the motor , your abilities and mods to car they would be the end of all this bolt drama) (( BUT it looks like a stock bottom end -so not really necessary))

    At least you got new head bolts. THEY MAY BE THE STRETCH TO YIELD -so one time use -get it right !

    As stated in post #30 - torque (or lack of it) was as big a factor as boost !
    (doesn't look like detonation was an issue) (( again mostly stock parts/limits)

    Get it back together and get it running, baseline. You will be re-torquing the head. Remember to chase the threads -you don't know if they used loctite &
    use the specs for the lube you use on the threads. (oil is fine if you have Ford listed specs) My choice would have been Felpro and Arp studs with moly lube.

    Mark
    P.S. The red seal is the unside dust/water seal of the injector female plug !

  21. #46

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    I did realize the red plastic piece was a seal from undoing the injectors- thanks!

    ...not to sound stupid but what would I be chasing the threads with? A tap or thread set? I don't have one.... what size would I need?

    And I just got back from picking up the head bolts, the guy at the parts store sold me this permatex, said to put it on every bolt. There was a slip in the head bolt package that says bolts entering coolant passages require pliable non-hardening sealer on the threads and underside of bolt heads.

    your talking about oil and ford specs, moly lube....

    I'm an amateur so if there are certain steps that are a must maybe you can spell it out for me? I'm hands on, I can do anything construction related- I'm good at basic car maintenance... but diving into the motor by myself is new territory for me. I know enough to do some real damage!!

    I'm not putting it back together just yet, I'm gonna clean up everything today, take some pics, and get some last min advice before she goes back together.


  22. #47

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    You can check your own engine easily enough, but both of the 2.3T blocks I have the head bolt threads are a blind hole, so no sealant required. The exhaust manifold bolts are another story, do a search.

    Torque specs generally specify what lube is required if any. Since the lube can vary the stretch/tension it's important to use the right lube for the spec. I didn't see any lube specified, so I would interpret that to mean the specs are for clean dry threads. YMMV.

    I chased my threads with a cheap metric bolt from the hardware store. I cut about 3 flutes in it with a cut off wheel to give the crud a place to go, and ran the bolt in and out of the threads a few times, cleaning the flutes as required. A tap theoretically can cut away metal, weakening threads, which is something you don't want to do. You just want any old oil, rust, etc removed. It also doesn't hurt to make sure there's no water/oil in the bottom of the bolt holes, since it could create a hydraulic issue and keep the bolts from tightening to spec. Carb cleaner and compressed air helps get the crud out of the holes...

    My improvised thread chasing tool...
    1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project

  23. #48

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    thanks for the heads up on cleaning out the threads \ bolt holes. I may have over looked being thorough with them-

    Any clue what size metric bolt that was? I guess I can run a head bolt over to the hardware store and match it up.

  24. #49
    FEP Super Member IDMooseMan's Avatar
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    From Post #37:
    (parts store bolts are TTY) - TTY?

    From Post #47:
    YMMV - ?

    My kids aren't home, so I can't translate abbreviations (why is that such a LONG word?) at the moment. Please help. Thank you.
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  25. #50
    FEP Super Member JTurbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDMooseMan View Post
    From Post #37:
    (parts store bolts are TTY) - TTY?

    From Post #47:
    YMMV - ?

    My kids aren't home, so I can't translate abbreviations (why is that such a LONG word?) at the moment. Please help. Thank you.
    Torque To Yield (ie one time use)

    YMMV - try this: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=YMMV

    1979 Indy Pace Car Mustang 302 / 5spd
    1982 Mustang GT T-Top 302 / 4spd
    1986 SVO Mustang - 1C

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