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  1. #1

    Default Forced 4 Coolant lines

    First I want to say thanks to MAPSVO for posting a couple part numbers and even pictures in my restoration thread about heater hoses he uses. I just can't see how they will work with the Forced4 lines though.

    I am aware there are several threads on this but none even mention the specific issue I am having, let alone address a solution. Look at this picture. Right now I have the OEM small heater hose line looping the lines together. The taller pipe on the right is a new Forced4 coolant line. For some crazy reason, they make it like 6 inches longer than the stock one was. For those that don't know, that taller line has to connect to the smaller heater core line on the left. I have no idea why they make the line longer. They could save the metal and charge me the same for it and make more profit. It should be cut right where it starts to bend and then flared or "barbed" there. I don't want to cut the line because it has the barbs pressed in that keep the hoses from blowing off but I may not have a choice. What do you guys do? Surely I can't be the first person to buy one of these? The line is like an inch away and 90 degrees turned the wrong way.



    Here is a picture of the factory setup for reference. I didn't get a close up because I had no idea this would be an issue. You kind of have to focus a second to see it. The line stops way down below the valve cover. You can make it out once you study it for a second. The line is WAY shorter and the hose I am referring to is behind the hose with the 90 in it. The Forced4 line is taller than the valve cover. It's probably more like 9 inches longer.

    Last edited by homer302; 02-19-2012 at 12:52 PM.
    Liberty once lost is lost forever.

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  2. #2
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    I don't know about the forced four lines, I will do some combing through my pictures and see what I can find out. I do know that one of my lines is taller than the other one. That crooked rubber hose goes on going fwd and loops around the line with the elbow and then heads back to the firewall rising all the time, when it gets to the firewall it is the correct height.
    Mark
    ______________________________________
    84 Turbo GT Conv. 84 Turbo Gt Hatch, Copper
    84 GT 350 Turbo Hatch
    85 SVO, (4E) Hertz
    86 SVO,(9L)
    94 Cobra
    70 Boss 302 (OFO2G121150)
    54 Ford Victoria

  3. #3

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    Just from a glance, it looks like the pipe from the drivers side is too high where it's wrapped around the back of the block. In stock form, it's supposed to be UNDER the EGR pipe. The EGR pipe should be under the freeze plug in the back of the head. Right now it looks like you have the pipe way too high on the engine. I'll post some pics in a little bit to show what I'm talking about.

    BTW that blue valve cover gasket is a no-no. The $6 cork gasket works better.
    1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project

  4. #4

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    Thanks. Any kind of help is appreciated. If you look at the stock picture though, you can clearly see the stock line. It is EVEN with the EGR, not under it.
    And if there is something wrong with Felpro gaskets, that is definitely news to me. I have never seen a bad Felpro.
    Liberty once lost is lost forever.

    John Adams
    July 7, 1775

  5. #5

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    Do a search for the gasket, you'll see... The short version is the blue gasket is intended for the steel valve cover.

    Here's a few pictures of the coolant pipes on my engine. Ignore the dirt, grease, chipped paint, rust, etc. Also keep in mind that there are at least two different versions and routings of the stock coolant pipes.




    1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project

  6. #6
    FEP Power Member ccurtin's Avatar
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    Wondering out loud here: could the issue be that you have the lines that go under the manifold while the Forced 4 lines might be for over the turbo? I don't remember which year the changed, but I want to say mid year 84 or 85. Let me see if I have any pictures in all the reference shots I've downloaded for my build.
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    1984 Capri Turbo RS - Alive after 7 years! Build Thread
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  7. #7

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    I had that thought too, but it shouldn't really matter. Both sets of pipes should fit the engine, since the origin/destinations stay the same. The only possible difference would be in how they're routed and mounted, from one version to the other.

    Here's a couple shots of the early pipes...

    1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project

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    There is a thread over on SVOCA forums on this subject and a member posted these Gates P/Ns.

    "The Gates #s are 21742,18701,28466,20338,18304"

    These are all the hoses for a SVO, and the poster might have been the guy from Forced 4, his avitar had a forced four plate on it, I don't know though.

    I have cars with lines both over and under the exhaust manifold, they do wind up in the same place at the back of the motor.

    Not to argue about the gasket, but that blue felPro is the only way to go, as a matter of fact Ford sells or sold one just like it only it is black. I have these gaskets on two cars with no leaks ever, and on two new engines waiting to be installed.

    If you decide you want cork I'll trade you three cork ones for one of the silicone ones. (Then we will both be happy)
    Last edited by MAPSVO; 02-19-2012 at 02:03 PM.
    Mark
    ______________________________________
    84 Turbo GT Conv. 84 Turbo Gt Hatch, Copper
    84 GT 350 Turbo Hatch
    85 SVO, (4E) Hertz
    86 SVO,(9L)
    94 Cobra
    70 Boss 302 (OFO2G121150)
    54 Ford Victoria

  9. #9

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    Thanks for all the input guys. I guess I should have done this first. The problem is not how I routed it. The lines are way different. I have pictures of both. I dont want the thread to turn into an argument about whether or not I routed it right. They are clearly different and I am just wondering what others have done. It's not the routing when one is 9 inches longer then the other one.



    The T fitting would go on the right in this picture, it is broken off, hence the reason I purchased a new one. This end was fine.



    Notice the extra 6 inches or so on the Forced4 line above PLUS it has a random bend. This is not a routing issue or a question about how to route the line.

    Last edited by homer302; 02-19-2012 at 02:37 PM.
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  10. #10
    FEP Power Member ccurtin's Avatar
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    Here is a couple of good pictures of Mike Croke's engine as he was putting it in. You can see the line orientation in the middle pictures.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showpost...&postcount=124

    Looking at his picture and looking at yours, it looks like the longer hose is on the line closer to the shock tower while you have it on the one closer to the manifold?
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  11. #11

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    It is supposed to be that way, that is my whole point, LOL. The new Forced 4 line is longer and stock that line is shorter. I guess I am not too good at explaining things but I don't know any other way to say it but I will try.

    The issue I am having is the Forced4 Line is 6-9 inches longer than the stock one. Therefore, the OEM hose or one similar to it will not work. So, I am sure I am not the first one to buy this line. I am trying to find out what others have done. This is NOT a routing issue. I repeat, the issue is the lines are totally different. Has anyone anywhere ever used this line and if so, what did you do for a heater hose? I hope that makes sense to everyone.
    Last edited by homer302; 02-19-2012 at 02:31 PM.
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    FEP Power Member ccurtin's Avatar
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    I think I see the issue. This is from an under-the-manifold setup:



    this is from an SVO with the over the manifold.



    Notice how the SVO is attached to the EGR line and the other one is to the other water line.

    Also look at how the 'under' line ends much sooner than the SVO one.

    Given how Forced 4 is a heavy SVO supporter, I'll bet they only have the SVO/over the manifold set.
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    1984 Capri Turbo RS - Alive after 7 years! Build Thread
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  13. #13

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    You 'da man. I still don't really see what you mean by over the manifold but you can definitely see the difference in the lines. Thanks for confirming it is not a routing issue.
    Your post sounds like you think there is no solution but why couldn't I just get an SVO heater hose? There is one on that tube in your picture and let's face it, the heater cores are the same.
    Liberty once lost is lost forever.

    John Adams
    July 7, 1775

  14. #14
    FEP Power Member ccurtin's Avatar
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    Over the manifold:



    Under the manifold:



    As for using the SVO hose, we're now outside my knowledge, but here's an idea: see if you can get the new tube to attach to the EGR hose the like SVO and see if that makes it better. It LOOKS like you may have an interference issue with the other hose on the driver's side of the block but I can't say for sure. Sorry I can only speculate here.
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    2018 Mustang GT - daily driver

  15. #15
    FEP Power Member ccurtin's Avatar
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    one more thing, the two 'under' pictures are from the same engine
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  16. #16

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    Ok, let's start over from the beginning and I'll try to explain this as simply and completely as possible. If you're not interested in what help I have to give to you, just ignore my reply and move on.

    1) There are two different sets of coolant lines Ford used. One has the lines routed above the exhaust manifold, the other goes below. I believe (if I'm not mistaken) that the change occurred when the turbocharger became water cooled. In your pictures, your car has the below the manifold lines.

    2) As you can see in all the pics posted, the water line from the drivers side of the engine to the heater core is positioned below the EGR tube. However in the pictures you posted of the installed heater line, you have it positioned above the EGR tube. See the pic below with new labels, illustrating what I'm talking about.



    3) From looking at the Force 4 pipe pic you posted, you have the late, over the manifold pipe. See the pic below of the same pipe from my 86 Turbocoupe donor car, and note they're the same.



    4) Regardless if the Forced 4 tubes are bent to be the early or late style, they should line up IF you position them correctly. There's the remote possibility that the Forced 4 pipes aren't a copy of the early or late pipes, however that's fairly unlikely.

    So in my opinion, you have mismatched coolant lines, and you may be able to fix the problem by re-positioning the tube to it's proper location. You may not be asking about coolant line routing, but that's part of your problem. But hey, what do I know? I don't have Forced 4 lines, and my stock tubes fit my engine and car fine.
    Last edited by Jimmy2.3Mustang; 02-19-2012 at 05:28 PM.
    1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccurtin View Post
    Over the manifold:



    Under the manifold:



    As for using the SVO hose, we're now outside my knowledge, but here's an idea: see if you can get the new tube to attach to the EGR hose the like SVO and see if that makes it better. It LOOKS like you may have an interference issue with the other hose on the driver's side of the block but I can't say for sure. Sorry I can only speculate here.
    My 83 was converted to a water cooled turbo around 1985 and now the lines look like your top photo, although I do not see the water line from the tube to the turbo, I believe the lower photo looks more like my car did when new and only oil cooled.

    One other thing to think about, I think Forced4 only makes lines for the SVO, which was a little different setup than my Capri or a standard Mustang Gt without an intercooler. Even then, the early SVO was only oil cooled too, then the later cars were water cooled. So keeping that in mind, there are 4 possible variations of lines we are having to deal with. SVO, non-SVO, oil cooled, or water/oil cooled. Is this the reason for our confusion?
    JK
    1983 Capri RS Turbo (since new)
    1970 Boss 302 (since 1980)
    1965 Mustang Coupe (since 1976)

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy2.3Mustang View Post
    Ok, let's start over from the beginning and I'll try to explain this as simply and completely as possible. If you're not interested in what help I have to give to you, just ignore my reply and move on.

    1) There are two different sets of coolant lines Ford used. One has the lines routed above the exhaust manifold, the other goes below. I believe (if I'm not mistaken) that the change occurred when the turbocharger became water cooled. In your pictures, your car has the below the manifold lines.

    2) As you can see in all the pics posted, the water line from the drivers side of the engine to the heater core is positioned below the EGR tube. However in the pictures you posted of the installed heater line, you have it positioned above the EGR tube. See the pic below with new labels, illustrating what I'm talking about.



    3) From looking at the Force 4 pipe pic you posted, you have the late, over the manifold pipe. See the pic below of the same pipe from my 86 Turbocoupe donor car, and note they're the same.



    4) Regardless if the Forced 4 tubes are bent to be the early or late style, they should line up IF you position them correctly. There's the remote possibility that the Forced 4 pipes aren't a copy of the early or late pipes, however that's fairly unlikely.

    So in my opinion, you have mismatched coolant lines, and you may be able to fix the problem by re-positioning the tube to it's proper location. You may not be asking about coolant line routing, but that's part of your problem. But hey, what do I know? I don't have Forced 4 lines, and my stock tubes fit my engine and car fine.
    I posted because I wanted help and thank you for trying to help. You still don't understand the problem though and I can't think of another way to explain it and that's ok.
    We have the answer. It has nothing to do with routing over or under anything. I need a heater hose for an SVO (or thanks to you it appears that a Tbird hose might also work.) Apparently the root issue is I have a GT Turbo and I bought an SVO (and, thanks to you we also know a Turbo Coupe) water line. So that was the whole issue. The GT Turbo and SVO (& Turbocoupe) apparently take a different hose. Has nothing whatsoever to do with how anything is mounted.

    Thank you again. I hope I did not come across smart. I was mad at myself because nobody understood what I was asking which means I was not asking clearly enough so anyone could understand.
    Liberty once lost is lost forever.

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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy2.3Mustang View Post
    4) Regardless if the Forced 4 tubes are bent to be the early or late style, they should line up IF you position them correctly........
    And just for clarification for someone searching months from now and finds this thread, as we have just proven with pictures, this statement is absolutely wrong. I am not trying to "Line up" anything. I just want heater hoses that fit. Read above post. I was trying to use GT Turbo heater hoses on an SVO water line.

    You will note that everything here (aside from the oil feed line I installed) was installed in 1984 by Ford. The hoses, clamps etc. are CLEARLY OEM. And the line is not below the EGR tube.

    Last edited by homer302; 02-19-2012 at 06:13 PM.
    Liberty once lost is lost forever.

    John Adams
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by homer302 View Post
    And just for clarification for someone searching months from now and finds this thread, as we have just proven with pictures, this statement is absolutely wrong. I am not trying to "Line up" anything. I just want heater hoses that fit. Read above post. I was trying to use GT Turbo heater hoses on an SVO water line.

    You will note that everything here (aside from the oil feed line I installed) was installed in 1984 by Ford. The hoses, clamps etc. are CLEARLY OEM. And the line is not below.

    It doesn't matter where your original line was located. It only matters where the later style line is supposed to be located. You have the pipe positioned wrong. Period. Take a look at the pictures of my engine, and the diagrams I posted earlier, and notice that the pipe is mounted much lower in relation to the cylinder head/valve cover, than it is in your picture.

    The hose question is an entirely different matter. Assuming you know which set of pipes you're using, it's simply a matter of using the correct hoses for that set of pipes. There are more than a few threads here and elsewhere with the various part numbers for all the appropriate hoses. They can be found easily with a search.

    You can argue as much as you want to that you had the pipe installed correctly, but you've got it higher than every other picture in this thread. I'm not trying to be argumentative about it, but if you say I'm wrong I'm going to defend my position and try to explain it to you. I'm glad you got it figured out, and when the correct hose still doesn't fit, try moving the pipe a little closer to the bellhousing and it should fit fine.
    1986 Mustang Notch, 2.3L Turbo Project

  21. #21

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    Thanks for trying to help again. That is one of the things that makes this site great.
    Liberty once lost is lost forever.

    John Adams
    July 7, 1775

  22. #22
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    Be sure and let us know how you come out, sorry we couldn't solve this long distance.

    What you need is a old time parts house with a person who is not totally depentant on a computer to provide part numbers.

    My NAPA store still has a big ol book with pictures of hoses in it and my guy looks at a odd request as a challange so I always eventually get what I need . It might cost a bit more and it might take a couple of trys but we get there in the end. I hope you can find a place like that for your needs.

    Mark
    Mark
    ______________________________________
    84 Turbo GT Conv. 84 Turbo Gt Hatch, Copper
    84 GT 350 Turbo Hatch
    85 SVO, (4E) Hertz
    86 SVO,(9L)
    94 Cobra
    70 Boss 302 (OFO2G121150)
    54 Ford Victoria

  23. #23
    FEP Senior Member 8T6 SVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccurtin View Post
    I think I see the issue. This is from an under-the-manifold setup:



    this is from an SVO with the over the manifold.



    Notice how the SVO is attached to the EGR line and the other one is to the other water line.

    Also look at how the 'under' line ends much sooner than the SVO one.

    Given how Forced 4 is a heavy SVO supporter, I'll bet they only have the SVO/over the manifold set.
    This second picture is the 1986 SVO motor I restored. There are differences with the hoses (both metal and rubber) on the different year motors. Your issue is with the "U-shaped hose" that goes to the large port on the heater core. The "U-Shaped Hose" is a part that is WAY HARD to find and not made anymore. There were alternate hoses sourced for that part (like from NAPA) that people used to replace the hard to get one.

    I do know where a set of NOS 86 hoses can be found...

    The Forced 4 lines are for the later model SVO (with this "U-shaped hose").

    Look at the second picture here and you will see the u-shaped hose and how it attaches to the large port on the heater core. The "tall" metal tube (under the EGR tube) connects to the small port on the heater core.
    Last edited by 8T6 SVO; 02-21-2012 at 11:37 PM.
    2007 SL55 - Capri Blue - Leather, 487/560 WHP/WTQ at 13.5PSI

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    FEP Senior Member 8T6 SVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homer302 View Post
    Thanks for all the input guys. I guess I should have done this first. The problem is not how I routed it. The lines are way different. I have pictures of both. I dont want the thread to turn into an argument about whether or not I routed it right. They are clearly different and I am just wondering what others have done. It's not the routing when one is 9 inches longer then the other one.



    The T fitting would go on the right in this picture, it is broken off, hence the reason I purchased a new one. This end was fine.



    Notice the extra 6 inches or so on the Forced4 line above PLUS it has a random bend. This is not a routing issue or a question about how to route the line.

    The top Metal tube pictured here with the tee is for the front of a 1986 motor. This is the problem you are having. This metal tube is not for the rear of a 1984 motor.
    Last edited by 8T6 SVO; 02-21-2012 at 11:47 PM.
    2007 SL55 - Capri Blue - Leather, 487/560 WHP/WTQ at 13.5PSI

  25. #25

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    this is for the 5/8 (small) heater core, not the large (3/4) pipe. If you are facing the firewall, the large pipe is on the right, not the left.

    Also, You need to have Forced4 fix their website too. The description on the pipe I bought says "oil cooler to heater core" right on it.

    They must be morons.
    Last edited by homer302; 02-21-2012 at 11:49 PM.
    Liberty once lost is lost forever.

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