Back vert speaker choices

[bwguardian]

I upgraded my fronts to the Pioneer TS-A878 and added a SmartDeck for the ipod and am now hearing how non existant the back speakers are. I hate to pull the panels again after having the car together now but it should not be all that bad...I have done it a few times now! I am looking at the Polk DB651's or the Pioneer's...there are a couple of them but the TS-A1673R's are coming to mind. I am thinking the top mount needs to be as shallow as possible...maybe 1.75" or so...and would like to see 30-35 watts RMS along with 91-92 sensitibity. I will be keeping the stock electronic digital stereo and amp so I am curious who is running the stock stereo and amp with newer speakers...especially in a vert.

[mikeysdaddy]

I have tried a few rear speakers in my 86 (now I am running the Pioneer 5 1/4's) and have found nothing really sounds that good. The problem is that the speakers that fit the rear panels are meant to be in some sort of enclosure and not run "free air" as the stock set up is. I have seen some nice custom set ups done in fiberglass but if your looking to keep it stock looking as I am, get the pioneer 5 1/4's and put a slim powered subwoofer in the trunk that fits under the top well. I am running the Pyle 8" slim powered sub in mine and it sounds really good, plus you don't loose any trunk space. (this is not a sub that will be heard outside the car and it doesn't rattle the trunk). They go for $100 or so and can be found on Amazon or buy.com

[bwguardian]

I have tried a few rear speakers in my 86 (now I am running the Pioneer 5 1/4's) and have found nothing really sounds that good. The problem is that the speakers that fit the rear panels are meant to be in some sort of enclosure and not run "free air" as the stock set up is. I have seen some nice custom set ups done in fiberglass but if your looking to keep it stock looking as I am, get the pioneer 5 1/4's and put a slim powered subwoofer in the trunk that fits under the top well. I am running the Pyle 8" slim powered sub in mine and it sounds really good, plus you don't loose any trunk space. (this is not a sub that will be heard outside the car and it doesn't rattle the trunk). They go for $100 or so and can be found on Amazon or buy.com

Why are you running the 5.25" speakers instead of the 6.5" units? I am not opposed to running an enclosure behind the panel and speaker as it would be hidden.

[ddawson]

I used the Pioneer TS-A1674R.

[bwguardian]

I used the Pioneer TS-A1674R.

What is this in combination with?

[ddawson]

I used the Infinity. They sound great but I think they are 2 OHM because they get louder than the rears.

I still have the original deck and amp. I still have to track down a whine that gets louder with the amp switched on.

[bwguardian]

So you used the Infinities speakers in the front dash? What are the model numbers on the Infinity units?

[ddawson]

Infinity Kappa 32.9cf

I also picked up a set of Infinity Reference 6032si for the rear but they are a true 6 3/4 and wouldn't fit into the existing bracket.

[eeprete]

Infinity Kappa 32.9cf

I also picked up a set of Infinity Reference 6032si for the rear but they are a true 6 3/4 and wouldn't fit into the existing bracket.

This is good to know. Did you have to modify anything? How deep is the mounting depth?

[netminda85]

I have the same Pioneers in the front and the Polk DB651 in the rear hooked to my Premium Sound deck. While it sounded much better, but it still was not the sound I was looking for...it was all highs. I added a powered Bazooka 6" subwoofer tube to the trunk. It rounded out the sound and I am very happy with the results and I still have trunk room. It's not thunderous bass that shakes the ground...it's a nice sound with highs from the speakers and lows from the tube. The tube is also adjustable, so you can have as little or as much bass as you want to round out the sounds. I can also unplug one cord and remove the tube if I need trunk room or am entering a show.

I then noticed that the sound seemed too low from the rear, so I keep the fade knob turned about 3/4 of the way over to push more power to the rear. I am very happy with the results and people seemed very suprised with the sound, considering it is a 100% stock look.

I know that bass tubes have a bad stigma with this group, but if adjusted correctly they can make a Fox vert stock system sound great without any modifications.

Rob

[netminda85]

It's actually a 8" sub and not 6". Here is the Bazooka powered tube I bought from Crutchfield...it was $150.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_204BTA8...BTA850FH.html?
search=tube&nvpair=FFCategory%7c%5brank500%5dCar+S ubwoofers&nvpair=FFSubcategory%7c%5brank51000%5dPo wered+Subwoofers

Here is a pic of what it looks like in my trunk.

[bwguardian]

I have the same Pioneers in the front and the Polk DB651 in the rear hooked to my Premium Sound deck. While it sounded much better, but it still was not the sound I was looking for...it was all highs. I added a powered Bazooka 6" subwoofer tube to the trunk. It rounded out the sound and I am very happy with the results and I still have trunk room. It's not thunderous bass that shakes the ground...it's a nice sound with highs from the speakers and lows from the tube. The tube is also adjustable, so you can have as little or as much bass as you want to round out the sounds. I can also unplug one cord and remove the tube if I need trunk room or am entering a show.

I then noticed that the sound seemed too low from the rear, so I keep the fade knob turned about 3/4 of the way over to push more power to the rear. I am very happy with the results and people seemed very suprised with the sound, considering it is a 100% stock look.

I know that bass tubes have a bad stigma with this group, but if adjusted correctly they can make a Fox vert stock system sound great without any modifications.

Rob

Thanks for the good information! I know the stock stereo via the FM radio or the cassette player are nothing to write home about but I am hoping the SmartDeck ipod setup makes up for that somewhat. When I run the ipod now it makes a huge difference...maybe 2-3 times better than stock...in the way the sound system sounds. I did some research on the Polk DB651's and from what I gather they fit but new holes have to be drilled. Is this correct?

I wonder if that tube might fit into the top well. If so that would free up the room in the trunk and get the sound closer to the inside of the cabin. Either there or next to the top pump motor between the back seat and the trunk.

[netminda85]

Correct...the DB651 fit, but I had to drill a couple new holes.

[todd900ss]

I just finished this very project with Infinity speakers all around. The 6 3/4 will fit the rear but will require to be bottom mounted, the bracket on the quarter trim will need to be removed to do this. It's a bit of a PITA. The seat belt retractors will need to be lowered also.

After installing them the sound was not great. I installed foam speaker enclosures to the rear and sealed the open areas around the bracket with foam. This improved the sound but as already stated will need some sort of sub for better sound.
I am a big fan of powered subs and will go this route. Want to maintain stock appearance and will probably use a slim mount sub under the top well or front seat.

Here is a pic, used the foil tape to seal and hold the foam for the open sides in place.

[Gemini1999]

I'm watching this thread with interest...

I haven't pulled my rear quarters yet, but at least I know what to expect when I do. I won't be able to evaluate the performance of the stock speakers until I correct the wiring changes when a PO bypassed the factory amp and all four stock speakers.

It's good to know that if I have to replace the rear speakers, I'll have options, but I'm going to be sticking with the factory stereo, amp and speaker locations. I do plan on updating the speakers themselves all the way around the car.

Ver-r-r-r-y interesting...

[bwguardian]

I just finished this very project with Infinity speakers all around. The 6 3/4 will fit the rear but will require to be bottom mounted, the bracket on the quarter trim will need to be removed to do this. It's a bit of a PITA. The seat belt retractors will need to be lowered also.

After installing them the sound was not great. I installed foam speaker enclosures to the rear and sealed the open areas around the bracket with foam. This improved the sound but as already stated will need some sort of sub for better sound.
I am a big fan of powered subs and will go this route. Want to maintain stock appearance and will probably use a slim mount sub under the top well or front seat.

Here is a pic, used the foil tape to seal and hold the foam for the open sides in place.

That is what I am thinking...

[Chrome_Rush]

I got the same idea when ripping apart my 87 conquest. The front door speakers came out and behind them was a plastic enclosure also screwed into the door. I thought it was a great idea. Im going to use some old tuperware containers to make some for my other cars. It worked o. The conquest as the stock ones werent deep enough for the new speakers.

As for tge speakers themselves. Pioneers akways seem to be better for a more rounded sound as they tend to produce better bass response. They are a more entry level speaker so they figure most people that buy them wont be running a sub. Higher end speakers will not produce bass very well as they are not meant to. They are designed for mids and highs. They basically figure if your going high end your looking for the best sound quality possible and they figure you will have some sort of subwoofer.

Always look at the sensitivity ratings when comparing speakers. In a nut shell the sensitivity is how loud the speaker will get with a watt of power. The higher the number the louder that speaker will get compared to one with a lesser rating at the same power level. Its like getting a bigger amp without putti.g more strain on your cars charging system. I see it as free power. I find infinity and jbl speakers always seem to have a really high sensitivity. Plus alot of the newer ones are 2 ohm which will pull more power from the amp by lessening the impedance. Again its free power just by choosing the right speaker. I like these 2 brands because of these 2 things its.like a double helping of free power. They get pretty loud without a ton of power. I always ran 4 channel amps for mains. With these i do.t even feel the need to hook it up.

[bwguardian]

I got the same idea when ripping apart my 87 conquest. The front door speakers came out and behind them was a plastic enclosure also screwed into the door. I thought it was a great idea. Im going to use some old tuperware containers to make some for my other cars. It worked o. The conquest as the stock ones werent deep enough for the new speakers.

As for tge speakers themselves. Pioneers akways seem to be better for a more rounded sound as they tend to produce better bass response. They are a more entry level speaker so they figure most people that buy them wont be running a sub. Higher end speakers will not produce bass very well as they are not meant to. They are designed for mids and highs. They basically figure if your going high end your looking for the best sound quality possible and they figure you will have some sort of subwoofer.

Always look at the sensitivity ratings when comparing speakers. In a nut shell the sensitivity is how loud the speaker will get with a watt of power. The higher the number the louder that speaker will get compared to one with a lesser rating at the same power level. Its like getting a bigger amp without putti.g more strain on your cars charging system. I see it as free power. I find infinity and jbl speakers always seem to have a really high sensitivity. Plus alot of the newer ones are 2 ohm which will pull more power from the amp by lessening the impedance. Again its free power just by choosing the right speaker. I like these 2 brands because of these 2 things its.like a double helping of free power. They get pretty loud without a ton of power. I always ran 4 channel amps for mains. With these i do.t even feel the need to hook it up.

I wound up getting a set of TS-A1673R Pioneers last night off Ebay that are local so I can pick them up for $30! They are 35 watts RMS and 91 db sensitivity and there top mount is 1.75". I was looking at a pair of DB-651 Polks but the difference in price and the fact there is only 1db sensitivity between the two made the decision. Hopefully the Pioneers will not need modifiacations as I see two sets of holes and will go in either 6.5" or 6.75" areas. I am still watching a pair of semi local Infinity Kappa 62.7i that have 75 watt RMS, 94 db sensitivity, but 2"+ top mount depth which concerns me...I don't want to get into modifing seat belts and such like I have read about here on the Kappas. The JBL's have some good specs to but again have the 2"+ top mount depth and 2 ohm resistance. I read that if you combine the 4 ohm head unit/amp combo (remember I am keeping these stock) and a pair of 2 ohm speakers the head unit works harder and causes longevity issues.

[ddawson]

Check Crutchfield to see if it's a direct fit.

Mine had extra holes and it lined right up to the bracket.

[Chrome_Rush]

bwguardian the 2 ohm is actually less resistance. Thats why if you look at amplifier power ratings it will say something like 1000 watts at 1 ohm, 750 at 2 ohm, 500 at 4 ohm. There is less resistance, so the amplifier doesnt work as hard to push the power, which gives it the ability to produce more power with the same amount of input voltage. I have JBL 2 ohm 6.5" components and jbl 2 ohm 6x9 3 ways in my tempo and they run off the deck without an external amp. They get much louder than the 4 ohm infinity speakers I had in the car previously (which had the same sensitivity). I have been running this setup for 3 years now and I play it LOUD, all the time. Think about it this way, if it was going to ruin a deck designed to run a 4 ohm speaker would they even make them? Wouldnt be much proit in it as most people dont run a 4 channel amp, just the decks internal amp. If they did, they would certainly put a warning on them saying you needed a 2 ohm stable amplifier. The reason behind the 2 ohm speaker design is for exactly for the oposite actually. They did it as an alternative for people who wanted it a little louder, but didnt want the hassle of a 4 channel amp, and believe me it works, because when I got these installed (the old infinitys were actually in an old tempo I had but with the same deck, i ran tehm off the deck for a short time before installing a 4 channel amp) the 2 ohm speakers with the same deck in an identical car were loud enough and clear enough that I never installed the amp. Its collecting dust in my garage.

[bwguardian]

bwguardian the 2 ohm is actually less resistance. Thats why if you look at amplifier power ratings it will say something like 1000 watts at 1 ohm, 750 at 2 ohm, 500 at 4 ohm. There is less resistance, so the amplifier doesnt work as hard to push the power, which gives it the ability to produce more power with the same amount of input voltage. I have JBL 2 ohm 6.5" components and jbl 2 ohm 6x9 3 ways in my tempo and they run off the deck without an external amp. They get much louder than the 4 ohm infinity speakers I had in the car previously (which had the same sensitivity). I have been running this setup for 3 years now and I play it LOUD, all the time. Think about it this way, if it was going to ruin a deck designed to run a 4 ohm speaker would they even make them? Wouldnt be much proit in it as most people dont run a 4 channel amp, just the decks internal amp. If they did, they would certainly put a warning on them saying you needed a 2 ohm stable amplifier. The reason behind the 2 ohm speaker design is for exactly for the oposite actually. They did it as an alternative for people who wanted it a little louder, but didnt want the hassle of a 4 channel amp, and believe me it works, because when I got these installed (the old infinitys were actually in an old tempo I had but with the same deck, i ran tehm off the deck for a short time before installing a 4 channel amp) the 2 ohm speakers with the same deck in an identical car were loud enough and clear enough that I never installed the amp. Its collecting dust in my garage.

That is the way I see it to but not what some of the articles I read. I may pick the Infinity Kappa 62.7i's up just to compare...they are 94 db sensitivity and 2 ohms. I am thinking they may be louder but not have the bass like the Pioneer TS-A1673R's will have at 91 db sensitivity and 4 ohms.

[Chrome_Rush]

The infinity speakers will have better highs and get louder. But your right the bass response will be better with pioneers because there designed to be a full range speaker and the infinity is designed more for mids and highs and not much on the bass side. If you dont want an amp and sub pioneers are great. If you plan on an amp and sub. I would go with the higher end stuff. Better overal sound. When paired with a sub.