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  1. #1
    FEP Member IWL BCNU's Avatar
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    Default Converting SN-95 T5 to fox

    All I can find is that the input shaft needs to be swapped, some claim rollers can fall out, others say no???
    Also, it appears the retainer also needs to be replaced, but isn't the bearing different requiring a diff retainer, or do the bearings just swap?
    '85 GT 4 time feature car
    '86 GT sold
    '88 GT pretty dang original
    '85 GT project

  2. #2
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    IIRC the difference in the input shaft is total length.

    IIRC 7.85 compared to 7.18 for the Fox. Otherwise they are identical.

    The bellhousing in the SN95 makes up the extra length.

    Using a SN95 bellhousing you could bolt it in a Fox and just double check your driveshaft clearance (usually Ok on most!) and be done with it.

    If using the Fox bellhousing you will need to swap the input shaft.

    Hope that helps some.

    Trey

  3. #3
    FEP Senior Member 19COBRA93's Avatar
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    You can't just swap the input shaft. The tooth count is different. Also, I'm pretty sure the SN T5's use a tapered mainshaft bearing as opposed to the roller bearings that the fox's have.

    The best option would be to find an SN bellhousing and be done with it.
    85 McLaren Capri Coupe -Blue/orange, 5 spd, sunroof

    05 GT -5 spd, Supercharged

  4. #4

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    You also need the sn-95 clutch fork when using the sn-95 bellhousing. The trans cross member will also have to moved back a few inches.

  5. #5
    FEP Member 85.0's Avatar
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    I was thinking about using a t5 out of a 95 3.8 myself. what will I have to change?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by 19COBRA93 View Post
    You can't just swap the input shaft. The tooth count is different. Also, I'm pretty sure the SN T5's use a tapered mainshaft bearing as opposed to the roller bearings that the fox's have.

    The best option would be to find an SN bellhousing and be done with it.
    there are both new and used fox length shafts that have the correct tooth count to match up to the sn95 gears. The "tapered bearing" issues are only with the '94-'95 Cobra t5's as those transmissions have an extra tapered bearing which the '95 and older GT transmission does not have.

    -Basically, if you get a '95 and older GT or v6 trans, they can work with the fox bellhousing. You will need to swap the input shaft, and either shorten the throwout bearing retainer to the correct length, or purchase a Fox throwout bearing retainer. BTW, you also might have to swap out the speedo gears to match up to your vehicle as some have yellow and other have white collars on the output shaft of the transmission.
    Quote Originally Posted by SeanPon
    many thanks to all you eco-hippies giving me dirty looks and helping me feel llike an overall badass rebel.
    Quote Originally Posted by PaceFever79
    I think one of the finer traits of a true car guy, is the patience to put a prized car away and just let it sit for a while rather than selling it when life gets in the way.

  7. #7

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    I would run a sn-95 bell housing.And it would put the shifter closer to the driver.V6 trannys will work but they have a longer input shaft and bearing retainer to. Every time I pulled the input shaft out the bearings fell down into the trans case so I ended up tacking the lid off to find the rest of the input bearigs. And the taper bearings is a cobra or Z-model T5 thing and if you take the trans mount adapter off the stock cross member will work fine.

  8. #8
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 83turbo View Post
    I would run a sn-95 bell housing.And it would put the shifter closer to the driver.V6 trannys will work but they have a longer input shaft and bearing retainer to. Every time I pulled the input shaft out the bearings fell down into the trans case so I ended up tacking the lid off to find the rest of the input bearigs. And the taper bearings is a cobra or Z-model T5 thing and if you take the trans mount adapter off the stock cross member will work fine.
    i put the trans on sawhorses and set it on the bellhousing mating surface. then pull the input shaft, letting gravity do the work for me. it has worked every time i've done it this way, all the needles come out.

    cale

  9. #9
    FEP Member IWL BCNU's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks.
    The bearing retainer looks different at the trans end, like it could have the different bearing.
    '85 GT 4 time feature car
    '86 GT sold
    '88 GT pretty dang original
    '85 GT project

  10. #10

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    What year did they switch to one pc trans were the trans bell was part of the tranny?
    No Longer a 4I Owner
    But Have way too much 4I stuff Collecting Dust.

  11. #11
    FEP Senior Member 19COBRA93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theemustangman View Post
    What year did they switch to one pc trans were the trans bell was part of the tranny?
    '96-up T45 and TR3650. But neither of those will work behind a 5.0L.
    Last edited by 19COBRA93; 02-24-2011 at 11:51 AM.
    85 McLaren Capri Coupe -Blue/orange, 5 spd, sunroof

    05 GT -5 spd, Supercharged

  12. #12
    FEP Senior Member 19COBRA93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustangracer84 View Post
    there are both new and used fox length shafts that have the correct tooth count to match up to the sn95 gears. The "tapered bearing" issues are only with the '94-'95 Cobra t5's as those transmissions have an extra tapered bearing which the '95 and older GT transmission does not have.

    -Basically, if you get a '95 and older GT or v6 trans, they can work with the fox bellhousing. You will need to swap the input shaft, and either shorten the throwout bearing retainer to the correct length, or purchase a Fox throwout bearing retainer. BTW, you also might have to swap out the speedo gears to match up to your vehicle as some have yellow and other have white collars on the output shaft of the transmission.
    I've tried this twice as I had heard they'll swap over. Both times the input shaft from the older T5 would not work in the '94/'95 T5. Both times I ended up using the '94/95 bellhousing, which as mentioned, was a better option anyway as it put the shifter in a more comfortable position. However, I have a buddy who swapped his '92 input shaft into a '99 3.8L T5 and it worked fine. There must be certain years that swap and certain ones that won't.
    85 McLaren Capri Coupe -Blue/orange, 5 spd, sunroof

    05 GT -5 spd, Supercharged

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by 85.0 View Post
    I was thinking about using a t5 out of a 95 3.8 myself. what will I have to change?
    I think the only thing that has not been covered is that the 94+ T5s do not have a neutral safety switch in the trans. So you would have to jumper the harness.
    1981 T-top coupe - FEP #28
    1990 GT - H/C/I
    2003 GT daily driver - bolt-ons 252hp/292tq rw

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by 19COBRA93 View Post
    '96-up T45 and TR3650. But neither of those will work behind a 5.0L.
    yeah i knew the one pc unit wont work, thats why i had the year inquiry Thanks for the info!
    No Longer a 4I Owner
    But Have way too much 4I stuff Collecting Dust.

  15. #15

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    I used the 3.8 bell and trans behind my 302 tbird. works fine. I've got about 50k miles on the swap.

    http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/...552#post429552
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  16. #16

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    I used the 3.8 bell housing and trans on my 79 5.0 Capri. Cross member and drive shaft fit fine. Shifter was not an issue either. The issue became having to get a clutch, pressure plate and 11" flywheel from a mid 80s F150 cuz the orignal starter would not contact the teeth. A 1996 starter was needed also. The right starter was like finding a needle in a haystack. The books kept sending me the wrong ones and I work at a dealership. Seemed there was a bit of offset to the hole and starter drive. I think I have the part #'s some place I will try to dig them up and post them. It would have been handy to know so I would not of had to pull it all apart again. But it all works great now.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by narvelle 1 View Post
    I used the 3.8 bell housing and trans on my 79 5.0 Capri. Cross member and drive shaft fit fine. Shifter was not an issue either. The issue became having to get a clutch, pressure plate and 11" flywheel from a mid 80s F150 cuz the orignal starter would not contact the teeth. A 1996 starter was needed also. The right starter was like finding a needle in a haystack. The books kept sending me the wrong ones and I work at a dealership. Seemed there was a bit of offset to the hole and starter drive. I think I have the part #'s some place I will try to dig them up and post them. It would have been handy to know so I would not of had to pull it all apart again. But it all works great now.

    F-150 fly wheel uses the 3/8" offset where most mustangs and cars have the 3/4" offset. if you get the two together side by side, the differance is obvious. the starter you want, 92-96ish f-150 - f-250 either 5.0 or 5.8 manual trans.

    i lucked out and got one from an f-150 first time out looking.

    the 3.8 also uses a 11" clutch and flywheel, but a 28oz imballance and metric instead of standard patterns. an aftermarket 164 tooth flywheel with a 50oz weight should bolt up and use the v-6 11" clutch without issue. the f-150 clutch/pressure plate was over $100 less and matched the f-150 flywheel, so i went with that.

    no driveshaft mods, stock aod crossmember, no clearance problems with stock y-pipe. i plan of mocking up some duals off a fox body and h-pipe once i get decent motor mounts. i also plan on swapping.the tail shaft and clearencing 5th gear for a mechanical style vss instead of dropping $200 for a stupid converter box.

    overall, fit and finish is like factory. Car ran and drove great till i ignored the failing motor mounts and started tearing stuff up.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  18. #18

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    stock aod starter bottom, mini starter with 3/8" offset top.

    11" f-150 clutch/pressure plate and flywheel left and stock used and dirty 10.5" mustang junk on the right.

    hope this helps someone later on.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  19. #19
    FEP Member 80 Capri's Avatar
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    Do any of you who are using the SN95 bell have center consoles? I would like to see a pic of where the shifter ends up? I've got a SN95 T5 as well, I'm wanting to put in my '80 Capri RS. Was planning to swap the fox input shaft, etc. onto it. But if it ends up in a further back, more comfortable position using the SN95 stuff I may just leave it if it doesn't look strange being further back. I have a fox and SN95 5.0 bells kicking around, so I can go either way without much investment.

    On the flip side, I put a fox T5z in a '95 GT several years back. It moved the shifter forward a little, but wasn't noticeable visibly unless you had another car side by side.
    1980 Capri RS

  20. #20

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    My guess is less then half an inch differance. ill bet a short throw shifter would look more out of place. i haven't had a regular t-5 before though, and i added a center console, but i had pleanty of adjustment there.



    This is with a shorter super coupe shifter handle and the boot not secured.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  21. #21
    FEP Super Member Travis T's Avatar
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    3/4 of an inch back further than a fox T5.
    1984 Mustang GT owned since 1991 (first car). Mercury Mountaineer GT-40P engine, some suspension mods, currently undergoing a five lug SN95 brake upgrade and more suspension mods. Some minor body and interior mods have been done as well.

    2004 GT convertible, 2001 Taurus LX, 1994 F150, 1950 F-1 Ford Pickup

  22. #22

    Default

    Why do all t-5 mustangs from 87-04 run the same length driveshaft if the 94-04's were so much longer?

    I honestly have not had both fox and sn-95 transmissions side by side, but i think there is a lot of guess work that has been set as gospel. being as my particular car didn't even have the option of a t-5 behind the 5.slow, i doubt anyone would notice a differance .

    A lot of guys want a drag and drop brain dead no thinking involved swap and anything not listed is considered detrimental to the project.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  23. #23
    FEP Member 80 Capri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haystack View Post
    Why do all t-5 mustangs from 87-04 run the same length driveshaft if the 94-04's were so much longer?

    I honestly have not had both fox and sn-95 transmissions side by side, but i think there is a lot of guess work that has been set as gospel. being as my particular car didn't even have the option of a t-5 behind the 5.slow, i doubt anyone would notice a differance .

    A lot of guys want a drag and drop brain dead no thinking involved swap and anything not listed is considered detrimental to the project.
    When I put the fox T5z in a '95 GT, I had to use a 3/4" steeda drive shaft spacer.
    1980 Capri RS

  24. #24

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    Here is a picture of the shifter in the console of my 1979 Capri. I had no issue with the shifter or hole. I had no issue with the drive shaft either.

    These are the part# I used. They were passed on to me from the person I bought the t 5 from.

    Summitracing.com has this flywheel ; Zoom Performance Products 50-710 Its a 164th,50 oz, 6 bolt flywheel looks like 10 and 11 in clutch. $68 heres the clutch kit: Zoom Performance Products MU1009-1 : $99.

    The starter part # is 3223s if you have to get a new one.

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    Mark
    Last edited by narvelle 1; 05-22-2014 at 10:33 AM. Reason: additional info

  25. #25

    Smile

    Is the aod driveshaft longer then a t-5 shaft?

    You can see a shiny ring of metal from where the driveshaft did sit with the aod. its actually out further by about 1/4 of an inch id guess. i figured that was all due to the 150lb weight loss going from auto to stick. suspension was loaded by the way, jack.stands under both a-arms and rear end.

    [Img]<a href="http://s33.photobucket.com/user/bosenKevin_02/media/2013-03-03153329.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d82/bosenKevin_02/2013-03-03153329.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2013-03-03153329.jpg"/></a>[/IMG]

    Stock sn-95 handle in second with an auto trim right.

    [Img]<a href="http://s33.photobucket.com/user/bosenKevin_02/media/2014-02-23%2016.57.50.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d82/bosenKevin_02/2014-02-23%2016.57.50.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2014-02-23 16.57.50.jpg"/></a>[/img]

    And with the super coupe handle, also in second. the shifter boot ill be using is a lot thicker and i was worried about it breaking the small plastic holes that it screws into if it interfeared.

    [Img]<a href="http://s33.photobucket.com/user/bosenKevin_02/media/2014-02-23%2017.05.44.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d82/bosenKevin_02/2014-02-23%2017.05.44.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2014-02-23 17.05.44.jpg"/></a>[/img]
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

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