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  1. #1
    FEP Super Member dburdyshaw's Avatar
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    Default Painting Question: How many coats?

    Firstly, let's take money out of the question so that's it not a factor in the answer.

    Let's say that you have an average driver car that you are going to repaint ---- and a high quality outcome in the goal.

    Two stage process: color and clearcoat.

    After the prep work and primer, how many coats would you apply?

    When does the Law of Diminishing Returns start? In other words, when would someone say, "You can add another coat, but it won't help."

    I would suppose that the perfect drying time window between coats would depend on what paint -- and on what clearcoat -- you are using. Correct?

    Would you (or do you) wet sand between every coat?
    13 Dodge Dart
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    Stock never goes out of style.

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member dburdyshaw's Avatar
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    Default

    Maybe I've missed it ---- but, with all the talk recently about painting, perhaps we should have a "Sticky" with all these painting threads in it. Maybe, maybe not.

  3. #3

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    I just bought some paint and it's has a print out with it that has the flash time on it. If I remember right it said 15-30 min. I might be wrong but will check it out. I would like to know about the number of coats myself as I am a rookie in the game.

  4. #4
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    Use just enough base to cover/hide. You can sand between base coats but not after the last. 2 full wet coats of clear for a factory orange peel look and 4-6 coats if you going to remove a lot of material and get it dead flat. John Kosmoski told me that if you touch a hidden part and the clear sticks to your finger like a stringy booger when you pull it away it's good for another coat.

  5. #5
    FEP Senior Member TireDood's Avatar
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    most things I have read/heard are telling me 1st coat dry, followed by 2 wet coats of base. Clear depends on how "deep" you want it to look. 2-3 coats for factory look, more if you plan on color sanding, buffing, etc....

    Flash time depends on paint manufacturer, temperature, humidity, etc...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TireDood View Post
    most things I have read/heard are telling me 1st coat dry, followed by 2 wet coats of base. Clear depends on how "deep" you want it to look. 2-3 coats for factory look, more if you plan on color sanding, buffing, etc....

    Flash time depends on paint manufacturer, temperature, humidity, etc...
    I have found that shooting a tack coat with clear just makes more peel

  7. #7
    FEP Power Member tman1257's Avatar
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    If you are going with a darker base coat then 2 good coats coats imo would work. If you are using a red base I always used at least 3 since red is a weaker pigment.

    As far as clear, I always liked at least 3 coats cause the boss where I used to work at always had us buff the paint before delivery. I always put clear on wet, no medium coats. Seemed like it smoothed out better for me.

    As far as drying times and flash times between coats, look at what the manufacturer recommends.

  8. #8
    FEP Senior Member TireDood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 608 View Post
    I have found that shooting a tack coat with clear just makes more peel
    Do you mean a tack coat of basecoat, or clearcoat? I've read sooooooo much about painting that I'm suffering from information overload! Watched 1000's of youtube videos, and don't really know much more than I did when I started.

    The last time I painted I used single stage, and that was over 20 years ago. Technology has changed drastically in that time, as we all know. Any advice from you guys with experience is wanted an needed!

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member dburdyshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TireDood View Post
    most things I have read/heard are telling me 1st coat dry, followed by 2 wet coats of base. Clear depends on how "deep" you want it to look. 2-3 coats for factory look, more if you plan on color sanding, buffing, etc....

    Flash time depends on paint manufacturer, temperature, humidity, etc...
    Okay ---- you are reading my thoughts exactly.

    It wouldn't bother me to see my car win a "Best Paint" trophy.




    For anyone that's familiar with Roger's Hot Rods in Jonesboro (AR), he does excellent work -- and his cars often win those "Best Paint" trophies. He also gave me an "estimate" of $8500 to repaint my Suzuki X-90.




    Thanks for all the responses. Any more?

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member dburdyshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tman1257 View Post
    If you are going with a darker base coat then 2 good coats coats imo would work. If you are using a red base I always used at least 3 since red is a weaker pigment.

    As far as clear, I always liked at least 3 coats cause the boss where I used to work at always had us buff the paint before delivery. I always put clear on wet, no medium coats. Seemed like it smoothed out better for me.

    As far as drying times and flash times between coats, look at what the manufacturer recommends.

    The first car that I have in mind would likely be painted WHITE ---- and I rarely see show-quality white cars.

  11. #11
    FEP Super Member 86capriASC's Avatar
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    I have been reading a lot at http://www.autobody101.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=5 and http://www.paintucation.com/.

    I also just got my Paintucation, Paint Your Own Car II DVD in the mail today. Already watched it once.
    Mike

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  12. #12
    FEP Super Member dburdyshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 86capriASC View Post
    I have been reading a lot at http://www.autobody101.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=5 and http://www.paintucation.com/.

    I also just got my Paintucation, Paint Your Own Car II DVD in the mail today. Already watched it once.
    What were your first impression about the DVD?

  13. #13
    FEP Super Member 86capriASC's Avatar
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    Actually I did learn a few thinks even with my kids barking in my ears. I will watch it again probably more than once. The first Paint Your Own Car is similar also, the second goes over water bourne paints which I did not realize but its covers both paints.

    If I could afford it, I would get the whole series.
    Mike

    1986 ASCMclaren #108
    stock short block, Victor EFI, 75mm TB, 3.08's, Borla cat-back, slot style MAF conversion, Gt-40p heads, TFS1 cam, 80lb injectors, 69mm turbo, Moates Quaterhorse, E85. 501/584 @ the rear wheels

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=TireDood;1148895]Do you mean a tack coat of basecoat, or clearcoat? /QUOTE]

    I shoot clear full wet, no dry/tack coats.

  15. #15
    FEP Power Member 82stangracer's Avatar
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    When I painted my F-100(in my albums) I used 1 coat of base, waited for it to dry then wiped the parts with a tack cloth and then sprayed 2 full coats of clear (with waiting time in between the 2 coats of course). I used a black primer so the black paint covered good. Using a dark color over a light primer would probably require more than 1 coat of base. I have minimal orange peel (IMO). I never did wet sand it and buff it afterwards and still got plenty of comments on how good and shiny it looks.

    Also, if you paint later in the summer, you may want to use a high temp activator for your clear.
    Last edited by 82stangracer; 02-11-2011 at 02:28 AM.
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  16. #16
    FEP Super Member dburdyshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 82stangracer View Post
    Also, if you paint later in the summer, you may want to use a high temp activator for your clear.
    "High temp activator" ---- now there's something I've never heard of before.

  17. #17
    FEP Power Member kj_80Cobra's Avatar
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    Usually the paints have activators that work in different temperature ranges, so if you are shooting paint in cooler temperature you use one type and for hot temperatures you use a different one. It affects how fast the solvents flash out of the sprayed paint.

  18. #18
    FEP Super Member dburdyshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kj_80Cobra View Post
    Usually the paints have activators that work in different temperature ranges, so if you are shooting paint in cooler temperature you use one type and for hot temperatures you use a different one. It affects how fast the solvents flash out of the sprayed paint.
    As much information as there is online about painting, some things are just not simply explained.

    Do I understand that "flash time" or "flashing" has to do with drying time?

  19. #19
    FEP Power Member tman1257's Avatar
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    Flash time is the amount of time needed to wait between coats to ensure that enough of the solvent has evaporated. If you do not wait long enough there will be too much solvent trapped in the bottom layer of material which could cause you paint adhesion issues, solvent pop, (air bubbles in the paint) etc. Always look to see what the manufacturer recommends first.

  20. #20
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    In a base coat/clear coat system, I would say 2-3 coats of base in most solid colors. Some metallics require a final dust coat to get the correct metallic spread depending on how you spray or type of gun you are spraying.

    The clear coats will depend on whether or not you are going to cut and buff. If no cut and buff, I would recommend no less than 2 coats and 3 at most. This will give you good coverage and protection without wasting money & time.

    If you are going to cut and buff, then you might consider an additional 1-2 coats of clear. This will also vary depending on how smooth you spray your clear. The smoother the clear to begin with the less cutting you will need to get that glass finish you want. Therefore you will cut through fewer coats of paint.

    Keep in mind that you want good coverag and good protection in a paint job, but extra layers of base and or clear are not a good thing. They make the paint thicker and heavier which can lead to more chips and cracking during the life of the paint.

    My experience over the last 20 years has shown me that every painter has his/her own style of painting. There are a lot of similarities, but everyone is different as to gun settings, style, motion, pattern, etc. The best advice for the DIY is to buy a good qualtiy gun (doesn't have to be high $$) and start spraying. Pick a paint system and stick with it until you are a proficient painter. Until you are confident in your skills and abilities you will do better using the same type and brand of paint. This gives you fewer variables to have to deal with.

    There are liteally 100's of paint manufacturrers. They all have pros and cons. Pick something that has the colors you want and in your price range and learn to spray it well. Also don't jump around in paint systems until you are proficient. Base Coat/Clear Coat sprays different than Urethane, Enamel, Lacquer, etc. There are similiarities and a good painter can spray them all well, but the novice will do well to learn one to begin with rather than try to master all of them at the same time.

    The last thing is that spraying primer is a wonderful way to learn how to spray nice, smooth, full coverage coats and its a necessity on a great paint job. So use this time to improve your skills rather than just throw the primer on the surface and sand off your screw ups.

    Long winded, but I hope this helps.

    Trey

  21. #21
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    the single stage jobs ive done usually require 2-3 coats..the last coat is a fat coat to really float the paint and bring out the shine...take practice to not to get runs....dont use metallic single stage..it always looks like crap...red, white and black single stage work great.

    base clear i usually do 2 coats of base and 3-4 coats of clear...make sure you are painting over a similar color that is prepped or the correct tint of primer for your base color.

    also, the gun you use will make or break the paint job..make sure you are using the correct nozzles and needles for the paint, primer and clear you are using

  22. #22
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    also, i use Sharpe T1 titanium HVLP guns.

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