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  1. #1

    Default 4180 carb slosh & cornering

    Hi folks,

    I've followed some threads about people building engines for autocross. Autocross and open track events are my main interest. I finally have my car off the jack stands and on the road. With the improved cornering capability of my suspension mods, I notice severe bog after coming around a quick corner. I'm assuming that this is slosh in the fuel bowls. Can this be corrected on the stock 4180, or am I out of luck on this carb? I have seen this question asked before, but can't find much of an answer. I just got the carb re-jetted on a dyno and it works GREAT in a straight line.

    Thanks!
    Bman
    83GL with '88 302. Project car for street / autocross / open track events.
    SB by Bill Klein, N. O., OH: (~10-1), Crane 2030, E7TE ported heads, 1.6 roller rockers, Stealth w stock carb rejetted 0.062 p, 0.070 s, 6.5" PV, MSD dist Mech advance only; headers, 2.5" duals - CRT-tuned: 246 HP & 275 #/ft
    T-5, ’95 spindles w/ ’02 brakes, 8.8” 3.27 rear, ’88 T-bird TC brakes & 5-lug axles. Fabricated rear LCAs, TA, Watt’s. BBK springs, TRX front bar, '88 rear bar.

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    Default

    I can't remember if the 4180 can be modified and I am certain someone here will know. I do know that I used to put a slosh kit...extension tubes...and some other things in the Holley 600 cfm vacuum secondaries which is basically the same carb. Mine were mainly for 1/4 mile launch issues and some auto cross.
    HAD
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  3. #3

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    I found this at Summit (Fuel Bowl Conversion Kits Fuel Bowl Conversion KitPART #: 34-2
    Fuel Bowl Conversion Kit Model 4150 & 4160 Converts Single Inlet Side Hung To Dual Inlet Center Hung.), but its $240! Can I find these bowls on a used carb or something? I'd rather buy a new Street Avenger than pay $240 for this conversion kit.
    Can someone tell me more about extension tubes? Can I use them on the stock 4180 fuel bowls? Will they halp with cornering bog?
    Thanks!!
    83GL with '88 302. Project car for street / autocross / open track events.
    SB by Bill Klein, N. O., OH: (~10-1), Crane 2030, E7TE ported heads, 1.6 roller rockers, Stealth w stock carb rejetted 0.062 p, 0.070 s, 6.5" PV, MSD dist Mech advance only; headers, 2.5" duals - CRT-tuned: 246 HP & 275 #/ft
    T-5, ’95 spindles w/ ’02 brakes, 8.8” 3.27 rear, ’88 T-bird TC brakes & 5-lug axles. Fabricated rear LCAs, TA, Watt’s. BBK springs, TRX front bar, '88 rear bar.

  4. #4

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    Have the floats been adjusted correctly? I use to have the same issue until I adjusted the floats correctly.
    1985 Mustang GT Mild 331 4bbl 5 spd, 1985 SEFI LTD LX AOD.
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  5. #5
    FEP Senior Member ddawson's Avatar
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    Check this out, it may help point you in the right direction.

    http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...ing/index.html
    1969 Corvette 496 Roadster, Gas Guzzler
    2011 Mazda 2, Gas Saver

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    The trick kits we utilized back in the day were extension tubes and baffles. These are really geared more for 1/4 mile straight up drag racing, but I did come across this that might be of interest to you.

    http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/652...oductId=743751
    HAD
    '82 GT monochromatic (red)...black cloth

    HAVE
    '85 GT vert two tone (white on charcoal)...white leather
    '00 F350 two tone (white on silver)...gray cloth
    '00 Excursion Limited two tone (white on tan)...tan leather...wifes ride
    '08 Taurus Limited ice blue...tan leather...daughter ride
    '08 Edge Limited white sand tri-coat metallic...tan leather...other daughters ride

  7. #7

    Default

    ddawson & bwguardian: Those are both great links - thanks much!

    Marz: I did set the floats properly when I rebuilt the carb (just dribbles out hole at idle) but I have since changed the intake, so I'll check them again. Thanks!
    83GL with '88 302. Project car for street / autocross / open track events.
    SB by Bill Klein, N. O., OH: (~10-1), Crane 2030, E7TE ported heads, 1.6 roller rockers, Stealth w stock carb rejetted 0.062 p, 0.070 s, 6.5" PV, MSD dist Mech advance only; headers, 2.5" duals - CRT-tuned: 246 HP & 275 #/ft
    T-5, ’95 spindles w/ ’02 brakes, 8.8” 3.27 rear, ’88 T-bird TC brakes & 5-lug axles. Fabricated rear LCAs, TA, Watt’s. BBK springs, TRX front bar, '88 rear bar.

  8. #8
    FEP Senior Member burntorange84's Avatar
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    Default

    Yea,
    I'd say search ebay for a good used holly 4150 with center hung bowls and use them on the 4180. You may search the race forum for what others have done.
    -j

  9. #9

    Default

    My '85 T-Top rides on Eibach Pro Kit springs, and Koni Reds, with Goodrich G-Force Sport
    rubber. I never get any bog coming off corners. Usually I'm having to drive around wheelspin
    instead. I'm using stock Holley floats and needles in the 4180C.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  10. #10

    Default

    I've got a regular out of the box 4160 holley 600 with side hung floats and I've never had an issue with it at open track events. Even on long full throttle high G turns.

  11. #11

    Default

    One of the nice things about the bowls in the center hung kit, is they use the Dominator bowls,
    which allows you to do a cleaner job plumbing the fuel lines on a Ford. On my '68, I connect
    the line from the pump to the front driver side inlet, then run a factory Ford style line from
    the front to rear bowl on the passenger side. You can also plumb the driver's rear inlet as a
    fuel pressure gauge port, or connect a return-style regulator.

    But I probably paid about $100 less than what they're asking now, back when I bought those
    for the '68. And even then, I thought they were kinda spendy for what they are.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  12. #12
    FEP Member Bailey28's Avatar
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    I think I need to lower the float level in the rear bowl as I am having a stall when I come to a quick stop on the roadway. It only happens when it is hot out though. 4180c with 4160 bowls and duracon floats.
    1986 Mustang GT 308, World Windsor Jr. heads, stock roller cam, Weiand action plus 8124 intake, Holley 4180c with 4160 bowls, Duraspark with MSD 6A, shorty headers into quiet full exhaust, T5, 3.55:1 gears, now with a/c!

  13. #13

    Default

    I'll try jet extensions before I go to the center-hung float bowls.
    Thanks for the advice and comments.
    Bman
    83GL with '88 302. Project car for street / autocross / open track events.
    SB by Bill Klein, N. O., OH: (~10-1), Crane 2030, E7TE ported heads, 1.6 roller rockers, Stealth w stock carb rejetted 0.062 p, 0.070 s, 6.5" PV, MSD dist Mech advance only; headers, 2.5" duals - CRT-tuned: 246 HP & 275 #/ft
    T-5, ’95 spindles w/ ’02 brakes, 8.8” 3.27 rear, ’88 T-bird TC brakes & 5-lug axles. Fabricated rear LCAs, TA, Watt’s. BBK springs, TRX front bar, '88 rear bar.

  14. #14

    Default

    Jet extensions are more appropriate for sustained g-load situations, such as drag racing,
    or circle track. For the transitional type of g-forces an autocross car sees, the problem is
    more likely to be pullover, rather than starvation. Lowering the fuel level in the bowls would
    be the first logical step.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  15. #15
    FEP Senior Member smokinn85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey28 View Post
    I think I need to lower the float level in the rear bowl as I am having a stall when I come to a quick stop on the roadway. It only happens when it is hot out though. 4180c with 4160 bowls and duracon floats.
    Let me know if you figure it out. I'm having the same issue with my BG Speed Demon...except mine happens hot or cold.
    85 GT, 331 Stroker, Forged crank/pistons, AFR185's, 1.6 rollers, CompCams blower cam (35-312-8 ), Performer RPM Intake, Summit Racing 600, MAC 1 3/4" Ceramic Shorties, Stainless 2 1/2" X-pipe, MAC Cat-back w/ 3" tail pipes, Poly bushings front 2 back, 10.5" clutch upgrade, WC T-5, Pro 5.0 Shifter, Tri-ax handle, Granitelli LCA's, BBK Specific Rates, 8.8 w/ 3.73's & Ground Pounder Girdle kit.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od4j41_xXQM
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  16. #16

    Default

    So my progress is rather slow.... I've tried jet extensions. Like before, I can turn left quickly without a problem. A quick right turn and it sputters like crazy. Per the "Popular Hot Rodding" article I'll see if I can modify the float in the primary bowl. I'll also try lowering the fuel level a bit. After that comes trying to increase the inlet (per the article). Thanks, folks.
    83GL with '88 302. Project car for street / autocross / open track events.
    SB by Bill Klein, N. O., OH: (~10-1), Crane 2030, E7TE ported heads, 1.6 roller rockers, Stealth w stock carb rejetted 0.062 p, 0.070 s, 6.5" PV, MSD dist Mech advance only; headers, 2.5" duals - CRT-tuned: 246 HP & 275 #/ft
    T-5, ’95 spindles w/ ’02 brakes, 8.8” 3.27 rear, ’88 T-bird TC brakes & 5-lug axles. Fabricated rear LCAs, TA, Watt’s. BBK springs, TRX front bar, '88 rear bar.

  17. #17
    FEP Power Member
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    You might also want to think about possible oil starvation at the pickup in the oil pan if you're going to do a lot of hard cornering. Keep an eye on your oil pressure gauge.

  18. #18

    Default

    In case this is of any use to anyone, I ended up retrofitting center-hung float bowls and it cured the problem! I can now turn left or right to the limits of my tires and I don't get a sputter. Needing to re-plumb the fuel lines, I also got rid of that horrible O-ringed transfer tube that moves fuel from the front to the rear bowl, and at least in my case, seemed to develop a leak every two years. Bman.
    83GL with '88 302. Project car for street / autocross / open track events.
    SB by Bill Klein, N. O., OH: (~10-1), Crane 2030, E7TE ported heads, 1.6 roller rockers, Stealth w stock carb rejetted 0.062 p, 0.070 s, 6.5" PV, MSD dist Mech advance only; headers, 2.5" duals - CRT-tuned: 246 HP & 275 #/ft
    T-5, ’95 spindles w/ ’02 brakes, 8.8” 3.27 rear, ’88 T-bird TC brakes & 5-lug axles. Fabricated rear LCAs, TA, Watt’s. BBK springs, TRX front bar, '88 rear bar.

  19. #19
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    The center hanger float.

    Jet extensions.

    1. Front https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...parts/122-5000

    Requires the use of special “notched” float to achieve proper clearance and to operate properly. Notched float number 116-11 Or Kit with float and extensions 116-10

    2. and back. https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...5896/overview/

    And go to a mechanical secondary double pumper 650 if you cant tune the Vac Secs they way you need them to come in.




    These were the first changes ZakSpeed made to circuit racing Mustangs (changes made with help from Jack Roush and the later SVO manager Mike Kranfaus)

    Even with engines just making 260 hp in 1984. Those same modifications worked in engijes up to 390 hp after 3 years of development.

    https://historyofaussieracing.wordpress.com/

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