Fluid for my 83 T5
Hey hey. My new shifter is coming in today. I know the fluid is low in my t5 as it had been leaking from the speedo gear. I fixed that but i need to fill it. I thought when i have the shifter off would be a very good time to do this. I know some of the later t5's take ATF but have never been able to get an answer on when this started. Does my 83 take gear oil or ATF ?
If gear oil is regular 90W gear oil the best choice? If it matters i'll be driving in the bitch ass cold up here.
J.
83 GT 5sp
Regular T-5 = gear oil
World Class T-5 = ATF
World Class T-5 = early '85+ V8 Mustang/Capri
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Intresting Fox. Because my 1983 Ford Shop supliment (which overviews the rebuild procedures for 2.3EFI Turbo and T-5's) states that it uses 2.4Liters of Dexron II fluid which is an ATF. I have always heard that ANY T5 requires the use of ATF
Seeing as my shop manual was written to specificaly cover the T5 (which was new for 1983) i would tend to belive it.
It puts the ATF in the T5... IT DOES AS IT'S TOLD!!!!!
very interesting. I do believe it's got gear oil in it now. At least that's what looked like was leaking out. I had heard it was because the newer t5's had different construction requireing ATF and older ones used all steel gears and gear oil. I do not know what to fill my tranny with, lol. this is not good. grrrr. wish i had my manual.
J.
83 GT 5sp
I stand corrected. See the following statements in bold.
http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English...adPro.asp?id=1
Section 2
T5 WC & STD On- Vehicle Service and Troubleshooting
2-1. MAINTENANCE
2-2. GENERAL. The only periodic maintenance required for the TREMEC T5 transmission is to maintain proper lubrication.
2-3. LUBRICATION SCHEDULE. Refer to the Vehicle Owner’s Manual or Service Manual.
CAUTION Excessive temperatures may bread down the transmission lubricant (refer to vehicle service manual for maximum allowable temperature). If there is reason to believe that the transmission has been subjected to temperatures exceeding 275° F, change the lubricant immediately.
2-4. APPROVED LUBRICANT. Most T5 transmission models use Dexron® II automatic transmission fluid. Refer the vehicle owner’s manual or service manual for lubricant specifications.
CAUTION Do not mix different bands or types of transmission lubricant. DO NOT USE GEAR OIL IN THE T5 TRANSMISSION SINCE THIS MAY DAMAGE THE BLOCKING RING MATERIAL.
2-5. CHECKING LUBRICANT LEVEL. Proceed as follows (see figure 2-2):
NOTE To check or drain the lubricant, the transmission should be warm. This is best done shortly after engine shutdown.
a. Wipe fill plug (2) and surrounding area clean.
b. Remove fill plug (2).
c. When transmission is full, lubricant will just drip out fill plug opening.
d. Add approved lubricant if required.
e. Install fill plug (2) and torque to 20 lb-ft (27 Nm).
2-6. CHANGING LUBRICANT. Proceed as follows (see figure 2-2):
a. Wipe drain and fill plugs (1 and 2) and surrounding areas clean.
b. Place suitable container under transmission.
c. Remove drain plug (1).
d. Remove fill plug (2).
e. Allow all lubricant to drain.
f. Install drain plug (1) and torque to 20 lb-ft (27 Nm).
g. Add lubricant Through fill plug opening until lubricant just begins to drip back out of opening.
NOTE The amount of lubricant required varies from model to model. Refer to the vehicle service manual for transmission capacity.
h. Install fill plug and torque to 20 lb-ft (27 Nm).
2-7. TROUBLESHOOTING
2-8. GENERAL. In the event of operating difficulty, it is recommended that the transmission (engine) be shut down. In most cases, to accurately pinpoint the source of trouble, it may be necessary to remove and disassemble, or partially disassemble, the transmission. Specific inspection procedures for detail parts of the transmission are provided in Section 5.
2-9. TROUBLESHOOTING CHART. Table 2-1 lists troubles which may be encountered along with possible causes and remedies.
Foxchasis,
I belive that info you provided is specific to Tremec T-5's. I get that from line 2.2 in your post. Here's something i found just now. Pretty informative,
http://www.moderndriveline.com/Techn...t5_history.htm
according to that, the Tremec bought the T5 line in '98. Before that of course they were borg warner.
Here's what i found important, all the way at the bottom of that page,
and to clarify that bit,One last piece of important information. ALL World Class T-5 use ATF oil and NOT heavy gear oil or Redline MTL! All NON-World Class T-5 use 70 wt gear oil. We recommend high quality Synthetic oil as it lasts a long time and over a larger operating temperature. It is important to change the oil in your transmission based on how you use the vehicle. If the vehicle is your daily driver then changing the oil every two to three years is fine. However, if the transmission sees regular track duty and pushed hard, then once or twice a year is in order. When we rebuild transmissions, we can tell when the oil has been changed often as the parts are much cleaner with less over all wear. There is no filter inside the manual transmission only a magnet at the bottom to pick up the metallic particles in the oil, the only metallic parts in a transmission is the gears or bearings. Oil is cheap, transmissions are not!
There are two basic kinds of T-5's, Non World Class (NWC) and World Class (WC). The first T-5 was non-world class. In 1983 and 84 Ford used the Non-World Class T-5 to improve the Mustangs performance and gas mileage. All the V8 NWC boxes had 2.95 first gear set with .68 overdrive. All the main output shaft gears and 1st, 2nd, 3rd, gears riding on a solid output shaft with deep oil grooves to provide lubrication. The lower counter gears spin on straight cylindrical bearings with a thrust washer in front to provide support when under load. All the synchronizer rings are made of solid bronze which are of different size than those found in a would-class T-5. It is because there is no bearing under each gear and the bronze synchro rings that the NWC use the heavy 70w gear oil. Torque rating for the NWC was 265ft/lbs.
according to the above my 83 would use 70W Gear Oil.
I'm still unsure of what to fill it with. I will have a look when i get home. If it has gear oil in it now then that's what will fill it. If ATF then i'll pick up some Dexron II.
83 GT 5sp
See if you can find the online version of the T5 repair and assembly manual. I believe it states the correct information.
Which I think is Worldclass - ATF and non - Gear oil.
Yeah its confusing ain't it.
No matter where you go, there you are
I thought it was pretty basic
If you got a 5th gear, it's ATF for you
'86 GT that technically doesn't exist
With Accessory Reserve Load Springs
Accessory Reserve Load Springs...Whooo Hooo!
Okay, Im without a scanner, so you will have to deal with pics, but DIRECTLY FROM MY 1983 FORD SHOP MANUAL.
Page 41 of Section 16-32 (T5 OD 5 Speed Manual Transmission)
Note under the heading Lubricant. 2.4 Liters of Dexron II Fluid.
This manual was written in 1983 BEFORE the world class transmissons came out (by 3 years). It refers to the orginal T5's that were used in 1983 Cars (as it was the first year for the transmisson and is why it is listed in the supliment).
That transmisson had Dexron II When it left Dearborn, and unless somebody changed it to the incorrect fluid (which happens alot) it should still be using Dexron II (or an equivilant).
It puts the ATF in the T5... IT DOES AS IT'S TOLD!!!!!
Found my T5 rebuild.
Says ATF.
Gotta love confusion.
No matter where you go, there you are
so there were NO T5's that used gear oil ? Hmmm. why so much contradictory information??
grrr.
Thanks alot for the help guys!
J.
83 GT 5sp
Based on the thread it almost sounds like (conjecture on my part) even if a T5 came with crank case oil from the factory, for a repair or rebuild, switching to ATF would not cause any harm....hence the confusion.
How much different is the design internally of the T5 variations? If its not big then I could see where Ford would just say refill them all with ATF.
Then again I suppose it would be bad to drain oil out and refill with ATF without flushing all the oil out?
-Mike
so if you guys were me, what would you refill your T5 with? knowing that it has gear oil in it now. Drain it, fill with ATF and run it a bit, drain and refill with ATF ? or just drain and fill with gear oil ?
J.
83 GT 5sp
On my 83gt when I rebuilt the motor year or so ago I changed the fluid in the t5. I used ATF. After that I had a lot more noise it seemed. lots of funky high pitch whines ( for a while thought they were some kind of vacuum leak) before shifting out of first ,second and lots more bearing noise when letting off the gas. After that I read somewhere, think it was D and D motorsports website that the non world class took gear oil instead of atf. I figured that the lighter oil was letting it make more noise but it never quit working. I don't worry about anything anymore with the tko 600.
Sam
What about GM Synchromesh? Isn't that supposed to work great in T5s?
"Supposed" to but was never designed for it.Originally Posted by frankiesaysrelax
But the Tremec guys at the both at Fun Ford Weekend mentioned it, which was kinda odd.
No matter where you go, there you are
Yeah, I've heard that it is the best stuff you can put in a T5, or pretty much any manual tranny for that matter."Supposed" to but was never designed for it.
But the Tremec guys at the both at Fun Ford Weekend mentioned it, which was kinda odd.
Only way to tell what you have is to drain it and see what you have. If you just plan to just fill it back up without draining it then take the fill plug off and stick your finger in there and see what ya got. Gear lube has that bad smell so do that on a empty stomach.Ahh the smell of gear lube on a empty stomach.
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From D&D's website:
Q. What kind of fluid do i use in my transmission ?
A. If you have a T-5 transmission you want to use dexron III atf . Tremec 3550 and TKO use gm syncromesh part #12345349 . T56 six speeds use dexron III
From Mustangs Unlimited:
Transmission Maintenance
We suggest changing the fluid in a T-5 transmission at least every 10,000 miles, more often if the car is driven hard. It requires less than 3 quarts of Mercer-Dextron automotive transmission
fluid - nothing else can be used. You can use synthetic Mercer-Dextron.
From FordMuscle.com
Finally you should always run a quality synthetic or synthetic-blend ATF (Mercon-Dextron II / III) in your T5. The fastest way to ruin a T5 is to put in manual gear oil.
From Mustang Monthly:
All that's left is to install the CPC shift handle and fill the transmission with Dexron III ATF. All T5s use automatic transmission fluid--not gear oil.
And on and on.
If it's a T-5, it's ATF.
Lookie here in bold especially
There are two basic kinds of T-5's, Non World Class (NWC) and World Class (WC). The first T-5 was non-world class. In 1983 and 84 Ford used the Non-World Class T-5 to improve the Mustangs performance and gas mileage. All the V8 NWC boxes had 2.95 first gear set with .68 overdrive. All the main output shaft gears and 1st, 2nd, 3rd, gears riding on a solid output shaft with deep oil grooves to provide lubrication. The lower counter gears spin on straight cylindrical bearings with a thrust washer in front to provide support when under load. All the synchronizer rings are made of solid bronze which are of different size than those found in a would-class T-5. It is because there is no bearing under each gear and the bronze synchro rings that the NWC use the heavy 70w gear oil. Torque rating for the NWC was 265ft/lbs.
That overdrive ratio's not .68. It's either .73 or .85 depending on the engine. More to the mystery...
What more do you guys want?!
Its right there in writing... Directly from Ford .... in a 1983 manual....
Dexron II fluid.....
I provided PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE that it uses Dexron II, yet some still question it. Why? Ford filled them with Dexron II when the cars were built. Thats what they should be using to this day unless somebody put the wrong fluid in it.
The missinformation on the internet runs deep. I tend to trust the people that BUILT THE CAR when it comes to things like fluids.
The manual is from 1983. When the T5 was first installed a mustang. These were NonWorldClass transmissions and they use ATF!
Most Manual car transmissions anymore use ATF (should proably stop calling it Automatic Transmission fluid then).
It puts the ATF in the T5... IT DOES AS IT'S TOLD!!!!!
Uh...we've now moved onto Gear ratios.
Cause now i'm confused...cause I thought the V8 T5s had 3.35 first gears...
OMG MY HEAD JUST EXPLODED.
No matter where you go, there you are
i dunno. i guess i'm thinking if the manual was written in 84 or after then it may say ATF while the t5's in 83/early 84 acutally used gear oil while they would run fine on ATF. I think the gearhead i got the car from would have put in whatever came out if he did change it. He's a friend so i will definately ask him if he changed it and what came out if so. It definately holds gear oil now. I think i will put gear oil back in it just to avoid a mix. So confusing.
J.
83 GT 5sp
OEM non WC ('83-early '85) V8 T-5 = 2.95:1 1st
FRPP ("Super Duty") WC V8 T-5 = 2.95:1 1st
OEM WC ('late '84-'95) V8 T-5 = 3.35:1 1st
I just meant my previous post to show that the internet history of the T5 has another possible flaw in it.
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